Does Death Ever Bother You?

[The Bullfrog]

This thread reminds me of something in Plato's Apology.

For the fear of death is indeed the pretense of wisdom, and not real wisdom, being a pretense of knowing the unknown; and no one knows whether death, which men in their fear apprehend to be the greatest evil, may not be the greatest good. - Socrates

Socrates is making a point that we don't really fear death in and of itself but that we fear what we apprehend death to be. Looking at this thread we see a focus on the pain and loss that comes with death but not the act of death itself. We apprehend death to be a great evil and it is that which causes us distress.

 

[Sha'irullah]

You must find some greater value in life over death or else you would end it now instead of delaying it. So what is it in life that gives it enough value that you choose it over death?

I do not find value in it. I just wish to experience life before death, it is best to go in order. I am not eager to live nor am I eager to die. I am just that laid back and indecisive about matters usually. It is actually a major fault of mine since I do not commit to any thing with great sincerity.

 

[The Bullfrog]

I do not find value in it. I just wish to experience life before death, it is best to go in order. I am not eager to live nor am I eager to die. I am just that laid back and indecisive about matters usually. It is actually a major fault of mine since I do not commit to any thing with great sincerity.

If there is no value of life over death then how can there be an order of priority?

By remaining indecisive you imply that life is tolerable enough that it requires no serious thought nor do you feel the need to seek a change for the better. An individual who suffers enough will seek release from that suffering, if pushed enough they will even seek death. But for one that does not even deliberate about the value of life over death or death over life. Who has the luxury to remain indecisive, I could only imagine they must live a very pleasant life.

 

[Sha'irullah]

If there is no value of life over death then how can there be an order of priority?

You live before you die and you die after you live. Simple as that.

By remaining indecisive you imply that life is tolerable enough that it requires no serious thought nor do you feel the need to seek a change for the better.

This seems appropriate of my lax attitude towards life although I am not implying this at all. I only wish that people can enjoy life as equally as they do death. We are gonna experience both states eventually (one more longer than the other).

An individual who suffers enough will seek release from that suffering, if pushed enough they will even seek death. But for one that does not even deliberate about the value of life over death or death over life. Who has the luxury to remain indecisive, I could only imagine they must live a very pleasant life.

Sums up my experiences. My life is miserable and I am not overly concerned about it. I have never even had a person genuinely love me and it does not bother me. I do not even have the desire to have friends nor procreate. My life is very pleasant I must admit

 

[The Bullfrog]

You live before you die and you die after you live. Simple as that.



This seems appropriate of my lax attitude towards life although I am not implying this at all. I only wish that people can enjoy life as equally as they do death. We are gonna experience both states eventually (one more longer than the other).


Sums up my experiences. My life is miserable and I am not overly concerned about it. I have never even had a person genuinely love me and it does not bother me. I do not even have the desire to have friends nor procreate. My life is very pleasant I must admit

I am sorry but I have to point out that we were talking preferences and not sequence. If you really perceived death the more desirable you would "quietus make with a bare bodkin" as Shakespeare put it. I have to be straight with you, I can not accept an assertion that death is preferable from someone who is still alive. Only in the act of suicide can a person truthfully express that life is unbearable and that death is the preferred choice.

Also I would like to point out that we do not experience death, you only experience life. Once we die we no longer experience anything at all and we are alive up to the point we die. You talk about experiencing life, I would suggest it is that aspect that makes life more desirable than death.

 

[YmirGF]

I am not morbidly fixated on death, per se, but rather, have learned to use my impending death as an adviser. Doing so helps me to pay attention to the little details, to stop and smell the flowers. I try to live each moment as if it were my last on this small planet before I go back home. Earth is a nice place to visit, to be sure, but I wouldn't want to spend all of eternity here.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Sorry to butt in to this DIR, but this quote has been brought up so now is a good time to ask;

I never fully understood this quote because, I truly doubt it is death itself people fear, it's the loss of life and the abrupt end of any possible future that people are logical to fear. I would like to hear your response on whether or not you're bothered by the lack of any point of continuity.

 

[The Bullfrog]

Sorry to butt in to this DIR, but this quote has been brought up so now is a good time to ask;

I never fully understood this quote because, I truly doubt it is death itself people fear, it's the loss of life and the abrupt end of any possible future that people are logical to fear. I would like to hear your response on whether or not you're bothered by the lack of any point of continuity.

Sorry if you meant to address Knowledge Gourmet, but I hope you don't mind if I drop my two pennies in as well.

Ever hear the expression, "Enjoy the time you have left"? How can you do that if you go through life harboring a fear of death?

It is not even the process of dying that people fear or worry about. It is their imaginations that they truly fear. People are expressing that they are apprehensive over the physical pain that may come with death. Pain which currently does not exist outside their imagination. While it is true that humans have a natural aversion to pain and suffering. I would question the rationale of fearing one's own imagination.

It does not make sense to go through your life worried about death. By doing so it would only lessen the quality of life and make death all that much more painful when it comes to pass.

 

[Ouroboros]

Ever hear the expression, "Enjoy the time you have left"? How can you do that if you go through life harboring a fear of death?

Fear is a strong word. Some people might just dislike the thought of death, or maybe just consider it an annoying fact of life that one day it will happen. One doesn't have to fear to drive the car home after a party to enjoy the party. Enjoying the party only means that they're not looking forward to go home, not that they are scared ******** of it.

 

[Penumbra]

Sorry to butt in to this DIR, but this quote has been brought up so now is a good time to ask;

I never fully understood this quote because, I truly doubt it is death itself people fear, it's the loss of life and the abrupt end of any possible future that people are logical to fear. I would like to hear your response on whether or not you're bothered by the lack of any point of continuity.

The point of the quote attributed to Epicurus is that when you're dead, there is no longer an "I" that can fear any of those things. Fear is for the living.

If a person fears loss of life, an abrupt end, lack of continuity, and so forth, then they're fearing things that haven't happened yet. As long as they're around to fear it, they're still alive, so it makes more sense to just enjoy life, not to worry about things that haven't happened yet. And when death comes and they are no more, there is no "I" that can fear or worry about such things, according to Epicurus or anyone else that believes in oblivion at death. So there would be no logical time, present or future, to worry about nonexistence.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The point of the quote attributed to Epicurus is that when you're dead, there is no longer an "I" that can fear any of those things. Fear is for the living.

If a person fears loss of life, an abrupt end, lack of continuity, and so forth, then they're fearing things that haven't happened yet. As long as they're around to fear it, they're still alive, so it makes more sense to just enjoy life, not to worry about things that haven't happened yet. And when death comes and they are no more, there is no "I" that can fear or worry about such things, according to Epicurus or anyone else that believes in oblivion at death. So there would be no logical time, present or future, to worry about nonexistence.

Then there would also be no logical time to worry about wasting our time in life, because life is all we have. A couch potato would be more logical than a social revolutionary.

 

[BSM1]

The first couple of times were a little scary, but now I see it as part of the circle.

 

[YmirGF]

The first couple of times were a little scary, but now I see it as part of the circle.

Indeed, it's like learning to ride a bicycle.

 

[Penumbra]

Then there would also be no logical time to worry about wasting our time in life, because life is all we have. A couch potato would be more logical than a social revolutionary.

^That seems to assume that being a social revolutionary is a waste of time.

Considering that political and social activists may be statistically happier than people that are not, this idea that activism would be a waste of time isn't right. To a lot of people, sitting there and watching tv on a couch too often would be dreadful. Some of the things that are consistently found to make people happy are things like having significant social connections, feeling part of something larger, being in a committed relationship, etc. And social activism tends to cover at least two of them- it's both a social exercise with other like-minded people and an experience of being part of something larger.

Similar things can be said for retirement. Studies show that if people retire and do nothing, they don't have the same level of well-being as people that retire and then stay involved in the community with volunteering or part-time work. The working and volunteering may look like a waste of time if there's this idea that doing nothing is the best thing, but in reality, participating and being involved is what makes most people happy.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am sorry but I have to point out that we were talking preferences and not sequence. If you really perceived death the more desirable you would "quietus make with a bare bodkin" as Shakespeare put it. I have to be straight with you, I can not accept an assertion that death is preferable from someone who is still alive. Only in the act of suicide can a person truthfully express that life is unbearable and that death is the preferred choice.

I do not understand this though, if death was more preferable than living then of course that person would be dead now. But what does this have to do with me? I do not understand how this relates to me at all.

Also I would like to point out that we do not experience death, you only experience life. Once we die we no longer experience anything at all and we are alive up to the point we die. You talk about experiencing life, I would suggest it is that aspect that makes life more desirable than death.

I know this very well which is in relation to what I have said before. When I am dead I will no longer have to care about others or be bothered by them, because there will be no "I".

I am starting to loose track of your whole argument actually, you are going ot have to make a point of some sorts

 

[The Bullfrog]

I do not understand this though, if death was more preferable than living then of course that person would be dead now. But what does this have to do with me? I do not understand how this relates to me at all.



I know this very well which is in relation to what I have said before. When I am dead I will no longer have to care about others or be bothered by them, because there will be no "I".

I am starting to loose track of your whole argument actually, you are going ot have to make a point of some sorts

I am glad that we have reached agreement then.

Life is preferable over death. Life has more value than death since life can be experienced and death can not. Our quality of that experience is related to our ability to let go of negative emotions.

 

[adi2d]

I would like to point out that we do not experience death, you only experience life. Once we die we no longer experience anything at all and we are alive up to the point we die. You talk about experiencing life, I would suggest it is that aspect that makes life more desirable than death.[/QUOTE]

Now you make the positive statement so burden of proof is on you. What evidence do you have that we "no longer experience anything"?

 

[Exhibitkris]

Thinking about my death doesn’t bother me but thinking about the few people and creatures I love dying hurts my heart immensely.

 

[The Bullfrog]

Now you make the positive statement so burden of proof is on you. What evidence do you have that we "no longer experience anything"?

Burden of proof is only on me if I take it upon myself to convince someone else of my beliefs. Not simply by stating them.

Furthermore "proof" is that which compels someone to believe something as true. No matter what I offer it will be up to you to either accept or deny it as valid "proof". As such the burden of proof is always the job of one's own-self.

You should always reserve the right to the burden for yourself when it comes to your beliefs. You should never hand it over to someone else.

Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. - Hypatia

But if you want to know what I think I'd be more than happy to share it with you.

It is a conclusion based on the correlation of what I consider the most likely source of the subjective self. This leads me to the conclusion that with the death of this source comes the death of the subjective self. As in the brain creates our subjective self so when the brain dies so does the subjective self.

 

[adi2d]

Burden of proof is only on me if I take it upon myself to convince someone else of my beliefs. Not simply by stating them.

Furthermore "proof" is that which compels someone to believe something as true. No matter what I offer it will be up to you to either accept or deny it as valid "proof". As such the burden of proof is always the job of one's own-self.

You should always reserve the right to the burden for yourself when it comes to your beliefs. You should never hand it over to someone else.




But if you want to know what I think I'd be more than happy to share it with you.

It is a conclusion based on the correlation of what I consider the most likely source of the subjective self. This leads me to the conclusion that with the death of this source comes the death of the subjective self. As in the brain creates our subjective self so when the brain dies so does the subjective self.

I asked what evidence you had for the statement you made. Now you have changed it to what you believe. Everyone is free to believe whatever they wish. No need for evidence for a belief