Does Everyone Know God

[Altfish]

love isn't the ideal?

satisfying one's conception of what is perfect; most suitable?

I don't expect perfection - compatible is more than enough

 

[ChristineM]

the mind is only limited to what it conditions limits to be. it makes the rules and it breaks them.


Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt


personalities will arise and fall, ideas will be labeled infinitely different from culture to culture and throughout time, but the ideas themselves will always remain.

Is all you have built of straw?

 

[DustyFeet]

love isn't the ideal?

i hate to keep doing this, but it's a matter of definition

for me, love exists as a spectrum, like so many "things"

on one end is completely selfless love ( not constructive )
imagine a parent that keeps welcoming their despicable son, the rapist the murderer, back into their home and feeding him and supporting him and hiding him from police

on the other end is completely selfish love ( not constructive )
obsession
domininance
controlling / suffocating love
like a "stalker"?

the ideal, in this case is "the middle path"

from a kaballistic perspective, i think the middle path of love would be: chesed blended with gevurah thru yesod resulting in avah ( healthy nurturing constructive love )

 

[Fool]

i hate to keep doing this, but it's a matter of definition

for me, love exists as a spectrum, like so many "things"

on one end is completely selfless love ( not constructive )
imagine a parent that keeps welcoming their despicable son, the rapist the murderer, back into their home and feeding him and supporting him and hiding him from police

on the other end is completely selfish love ( not constructive )
obsession
domininance
controlling / suffocating love
like a "stalker"?

the ideal, in this case is "the middle path"

from a kaballistic perspective, i think the middle path of love would be: chesed blended with gevurah thru yesod resulting in avah ( healthy nurturing constructive love )

law of reciprocity, or golden rule, or love is not a respecter of person; including self.

 

[DustyFeet]

law of reciprocity, or golden rule, or love is not a respecter of person; including self.

... i'm still confused ...

golden rule:
do to others only what you would do to yourself?
don't do to others things that you hate?
forgive others the way you would forgive yourself?

are u saying the "golden rule" = "the middle path" ?

 

[Fool]

... i'm still confused ...

golden rule:
do to others only what you would do to yourself?
don't do to others things that you hate?
forgive others the way you would forgive yourself?

are u saying the "golden rule" = "the middle path" ?

you referred to a spectrum and the middle being the ideal. in a set of balances everything being equal, the balance is the middle.


neither to the left, nor the right, but straight an narrow is the way.

or

proverbs 4:27

Turn neither right nor left; keep your feet from evil.


Numbers 22:26
And the angel of the Lord went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.


Matt 7:13-Matt 7:14 NIV
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

the term god isn't exclusive to the abrahamic idea. it can be associated with a higher power/force; in this case love is the whole of the law.

If god equates to love, I'd just use the word 'love'.

 

[Kapalika]

Because when people say things like "the universe is God," they act like they're trying to express something meaningful... i.e. that calling the universe "God" expresses something about the universe that wasn't captured in the term "universe."

I think it does capture it, it's saying that the Universe is divine and for some, conscious. For example in Hinduism a common position is idealism, but for them saying the Universe is God would impart that the Universe is also consciousness.

We can see this in advaita vedanta for example. However I will admit it would be more accurate to say that the Universe is Maya or Shakti in many cases.

Just as a note, in my sect (Kashmir Shaivism) the traditional view of Shakti / the physical Universe is concrete, not ideal. Shakti/physical is still God, but an expression of God as a whole which is the Shiva-Shakti.

If they thought the terms were equivalent - i.e. not only referred to the same thing but expressed exactly the same idea - then they would act as if the phrase "the universe is God" is a useless tautology.

Also, pantheists don't exist in a vacuum. You know full well that the term "God" is usually used to refer to things that aren't the universe. Calling the universe "God" is an attempt to apply aspects of god from the larger spectrum of theism to the universe.

Even if you think that the universe is God, if someone said to you "the universe is not God," you would understand the terms well enough to explain why you disagree.

So you do understand that "God" can exist on different levels, good! In Hinduism there are "levels" or layers to reality and God is equal to many of those levels.

So with that, perhaps, you can understand when I explain, that saying the "Universe is God" is including God as existing on a level that non pantheists don't believe it does exist on; the actual "stuffs" of this physical world / realm we live in (either ideal or real).

OTOH, if the terms are equivalent, then a statement like that would be nonsensical. Take this statement: "a mare is not a female horse." It's nonsensical; it's not clear at all what it's even trying to say.

Actually that's not "nonsensical", I think you meant to say that it's "obvious" since a mare literally is not a female horse. And since you already pointed out that if someone says the Universe isn't God others would understand why they disagree, you can probably see that both have an understanding that the debate is about what levels god exists on.

So maybe you are right that they are not wholly the same, but on the level one is speaking when talking about it, they can be considered to be wholly equal in that context

 

[Fool]

If god equates to love, I'd just use the word 'love'.

most people of our culture would but some persons tend to have contempt for familiar things. they lose sight of who their neighbors are and boundary lines.


Does Familiarity Breed Contempt?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I know love..I don't know god...end of hypothesis

Are you sure you know love? A shallow relationship is not the same thing as having someone who will literally take your side when everyone else is against you.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

symbol of love - a god

That's an idol. A statue of something is not a symbol of love. From looking at Shiva, one has no idea whether this being cares for you or not.

This is a symbol of love.

 

[Fool]

That's an idol. A statue of something is not a symbol of love. From looking at Shiva, one has no idea whether this being cares for you or not.

This is a symbol of love.

unfortunately your image is also an idol.


I found great synonyms for "icon" on the new Thesaurus.com!


synonyms for icon are both symbol and idol


a symbol for justice:

 

[DustyFeet]

tend to have contempt for familiar things

Intersting... I never thought of it this way... But ur right... I do that...
Hmmm maybe I'll put it on the list for 2019

My fuzzy brain has a similar opposite notion, i try to ignore it, cause i don't think its constructive, i think its judgey, but i still think its tru...

Many people are comforted by the familiar, this becomes more pronounced with age

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think it does capture it, it's saying that the Universe is divine and for some, conscious. For example in Hinduism a common position is idealism, but for them saying the Universe is God would impart that the Universe is also consciousness.

There you go: if the words meant exactly the same thing, then saying "the Universe is God" would communicate nothing at all.

As for the rest of your post... you kinda lost the point, so I don't see the need to respond.

 

[Kapalika]

Still not sure i can call god "love". I kinda feel when people say that, they are more describing the bliss and acceptance they feel when they are close to divinity, not something in of itself.

That's an idol. A statue of something is not a symbol of love. From looking at Shiva, one has no idea whether this being cares for you or not.

This is a symbol of love.

Shiva cares enough to destroy illusion.

 

[Kapalika]

There you go: if the words meant exactly the same thing, then saying "the Universe is God" would communicate nothing at all.

As for the rest of your post... you kinda lost the point, so I don't see the need to respond.

I think you are the one who lost the point and are just trying to go "aha!" one point... it still doesn't follow that it "means nothing at all" for the reasons I outlined.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think you are the one who lost the point and are just trying to go "aha!" one point... it still doesn't follow that it "means nothing at all" for the reasons I outlined.

That's right: "the universe" and "God" mean different things. This is what lets the statement "the Universe is God" be useful for expressing an idea.

 

[DustyFeet]

I kinda feel when people say that, they are more describing the bliss and acceptance they feel when they are close to divinity, not something in of itself

Nurturing creation + the gift of ...ahem... their messiah = LOVE = LORD ???

this is me, a Jew, trying to understand the G-d is love concept....

Am I close?

 

[Altfish]

Are you sure you know love? A shallow relationship is not the same thing as having someone who will literally take your side when everyone else is against you.

Good grief, what a rude and crass remark!!
Have you any children? A life partner? Their love is more real and tangible than an imaginary being of some sort.

 

[Fool]

Are you sure you know love? A shallow relationship is not the same thing as having someone who will literally take your side when everyone else is against you.

a "real" relationship is when someone corrects you; when you're wrong because they don't want them harmed from their own ignorance. that is unconditional love. loving someone isn't giving them everything they want. it's giving them everything they need.

like keeping someone from sticking a metallic object in a wall outlet.