Does evidence of God(s) exist?

[Scuba Pete]

John 20:24 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." NIV

There is more than enough evidence to believe. The problem is not in the evidence, but in the hearts of those who refuse to see.

 

[Quiddity]

this may sound corney but for me a look at the hubble telescope pictures of galaxies and the like as well as the natural landscapes here on earth are proof enough for me that god exists.

Not corny at all..

~Victor

 

[tom_mich]

Again, we all see that evidence of god for many, is the fact that life, nature and space cannot (*yet) be explained, therefore......god.

We also have the abilty to wonder at natures beauty, so beautiful MUST be made by god. Naturally....no way....why? because we don't have any other answers...must be god.

Perhaps insects think cats and dogs are gods. Perhaps dogs and cats think we are gods.

 

[Quiddity]

Again, we all see that evidence of god for many, is the fact that life, nature and space cannot (*yet) be explained, therefore......god.

We also have the abilty to wonder at natures beauty, so beautiful MUST be made by god. Naturally....no way....why? because we don't have any other answers...must be god.

Perhaps insects think cats and dogs are gods. Perhaps dogs and cats think we are gods.

Incorrect, I don't believe in God because He is the only alternative in the soup of no answers. I believe in God because I can do such thru reason (cosmological and teleological arguments, as well as many others).

~Victor

 

[JerryL]

I believe in God because I can do such thru reason (cosmological and teleological arguments, as well as many others).

Those are circular.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Those are circular.[/color]

How so?

 

[JerryL]

How so?

Start a thread on the cosmological argument and I'll point out the problems (whether they are actually circular or simply arbitrary depends on how you frame the argument)

 

[Scuba Pete]

Wait a minute... you have made a BOLD statement about how Victor has used "circular" logic, and you can't show us? Sounds like you wrote a check your logic could not cash! These two word responses can sound impressive when you first read them; a complete dismissal of what Victor said. In reality they have no substance! It's like the one worded responses such as "garbage" that rely on emotionally charged words to make their point and provide no insight into the discussion at hand. I am sure that you can do better.

You made the comment in THIS thread, and so we would appreciate the clarification in THIS thread.

 

[JerryL]

Wait a minute... you have made a BOLD statement about how Victor has used "circular" logic, and you can't show us?

I can and I will... on an appropriate thread.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22644

Go ahead and assert your version of the cosmological argument. I'll tell you why it's invalid.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Somehow, I expected this dodge from you, Jerry! Victor: your statement stands virtually unchallenged. I fully agree with the sentiment that we do NOT pick our faith out of "no" soup. Great illustration of it as well!

 

[JerryL]

Somehow, I expected this dodge from you, Jerry! Victor: your statement stands virtually unchallenged. I fully agree with the sentiment that we do NOT pick our faith out of "no" soup. Great illustration of it as well!

I'm ready, willing, and able to debate it. I've even started a thread.

Accusing me of dodging is not just rhetoric, it's outright dishonest. Bad form!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

the fact that life, nature and space cannot (*yet) be explained, therefore......god.

Just over 100 years ago, it was not understood how bacteria infected things, until Pastuer(spelling) showed that bacteria needs not just air, but also a way to get to the liquid. 1000 years ago, infections and illnesses were thought to be demons. Having a seizure or tourettes outbreak could get you hung or burned.

I have seen things that I interpret to by proof of what I believe. Some might call it coincidences, hallucinations, or some chemical imbalance in my brain that causes me to see spirits. I cannot fully convience someone who believes my brain is having abnormal activites that I really am seeing a spirit. But maybe the reaction in the brain is required to see the spirit, which is real?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Nope,

I have seen no miracles. Have not seen any evidence for any miracles either. Quoting a book written 2000 years ago as "proof" of a miracle is hardly convincing.

Anyone here want to argue that Achilles was really dipped into the River Styx? Or that by so doing he became immune to injury everywhere that the water touched? If not, why not? It was written down a long time ago, therefore it must be evidence, right?

B.

 

[Bennettresearch]

No! That's why I'm asking. Although, now that you've mentioned it, sort of reminds me of an LSD trip...:areyoucra

Hey Orm,

A very common experience when taking LSD. In your own way you have validated the view of a neuro-scientist who says the brain is hard wired for God. Just a little side note here.


Craig

 

[Bennettresearch]

Perhaps insects think cats and dogs are gods. Perhaps dogs and cats think we are gods.

Hey tom,

Actually this is the road of the reasoning for God that you will hear. As a hierarchy of intelligence exists, are we to say that we are it? in being humble about it, one ponders that there is a greater intelligence than ours. If there is empirical proof of an intelligence hierarchy then where does it stop? Or, can we be so arrogant as to assume that there is nothing greater than us?

 

[Bennettresearch]

OK Orm,

As a christian i am cynical towards supposed miracles or some that claim that God spoke to them. This may be odd because I have had spiritual experiences and have recieved something i would descibe as pure thought that came from outside of myself. I do know the difference between something my mind might dream up and something that I cannot trace to this. I am not going to relate it because it is only hearsay testimony and completely unprovable. I could stand right beside you and disprove supposed miracles and the delusional aspects of being talked to by God. At the same time I know that it exists, I experienced it. Any kind of debate in this area is kind of futile because of the easy dismissal of the entire subject.

 

[SSN]

people who have faith will find our Lord
i personally feel his presence around me
Have faith and faith shall find you not the other way around

 

[JerryL]

people who have faith will find our Lord
i personally feel his presence around me
Have faith and faith shall find you not the other way around

If faith doesn't work, there's a religious experience helmet (http://www.bidstrup.com/mystic.htm) that will give you one. Which god depends on where your leanings are.

Apparently God exists at 40Hz just in front of your ears. I wonder how close he is to the part that makes you paranoid.

 

[michel]

If faith doesn't work, there's a religious experience helmet (http://www.bidstrup.com/mystic.htm) that will give you one. Which god depends on where your leanings are.

Apparently God exists at 40Hz just in front of your ears. I wonder how close he is to the part that makes you paranoid.

Hurrah so:-

Using an ordinary striped yellow motorcycle helmet purchased at a sporting goods store, which he has modified with electromagnetic coils, he can place the helmet on your head, connect the wires to a device he has constructed that generates the proper signals, and when the magnetic fields produced by the coils penetrate the skull and into the temporal lobes of the brain, the result is the stimulation of those lobes and a religious experience results.

I can have my religious experiences without the help of a yellow crash helmet, coils, and the like.

That section brings up an interesting poit though - it could be said that the guy has found a way to mimic the appearance of God ...........Not sure I like this version. I'll stick with the original, if you don't mind.

 

[JerryL]

I can have my religious experiences without the help of a yellow crash helmet, coils, and the like.

I'm sure you can also sleep without such direct manipulation of your brain, and many can have epileptic fits without such direct intervention.

That section brings up an interesting poit though - it could be said that the guy has found a way to mimic the appearance of God ...........Not sure I like this version. I'll stick with the original, if you don't mind.

They only difference is the stimulus. As with many other activities and experieneces, they took someone undergoing a "religious expereince" (they found someone that could do it on command and put her in a MRI), found out what her brain was doing to trigger it, and made a device to trigger the same thing. Much like putting alpha-waves into your brain to make you sleepy.