Does evolution have a purpose?

[YoursTrue]

Because anatomically modern humans were around way before 20,000 years ago. They were around before 100,000 years ago. We have dated fossils and DNA.
Whether there was a need or not is irrelevant. There was a "need" (use) for insulin, plastic, guns, and wheels on luggage a thousand years ago, too, and we were just as intelligent, yet we never developed these things. The Zeitgeist just wasn't right.
Why? Why can't we figure out how our brains, or any other anatomical or physiological feature, developed? Biology has been figuring these things out for nearly 200 years, and farmers had basic selection down for thousands of years.

On what basis do you assert humans were around 20,000 years ago?

 

[YoursTrue]

We don't know if they did or didn't.

We didn't know this either.

Thus, we are not the ones jumping to conclusions.

Yes, I have to say it's (your reasoning) is amazing. And so I bid you good day. If it's a day where you're at. Of course day and night can be flexible, can't they? Have a good one! And thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

Probably true, but we also do know that some species have devised other ways to keep warm, whether that be through instinct or thought.

Hmm, I wonder if you can tell la difference. Of course, brain damage can alter the thought process. Anyway, have another good one! It's been interesting and instructive talking with someone like you. Thanks again! You've taught me a lot.

 

[YoursTrue]

What does all this clothing and writing have to do with evolution, anyway? They had nothing to do with the evolution of modern man.

We developed in tropical regions, with no need for clothing. The first clothing was decorative, not protective. Modern man was fully developed by the time he moved to regions that required insulation.

Likewise writing. We had the mental capacity to write 20,000 years ago. We just didn't There was no need.
Useful inventions appear haphazardly, and will only catch on if the culture, infrastructure and social attitudes are ripe for them.

The steam engine was invented 2,000 years ago, but there was no automation or locomotives till ~200 years ago.
When I was a boy there were no wheels on luggage. People were hand carrying luggage for thousands of years. Did we evolve a sufficient degree of cleverness only 40 years ago?

Have gorillas and bonobos progressed scientifically speaking within the last um ... million years or so? Give or take a few hundred thousand, etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have gorillas and bonobos progressed scientifically speaking within the last um ... million years or so? Give or take a few hundred thousand, etc.

This is a rather pointless question. Why would they need to? How could they even do so? You appear to be making the common creationist mistake of thinking that man wan as we exist today was a goal. That does not appear to be the case. We are only the result.

 

[Valjean]

Early humans didn't need clothing? How do you figure that?
And you say after we (?) became brainy? Are you saying the other Darwinian type apes just aren't as brainy as humans are and that's why they didn't develop

Early humans lived in tropical Africa, where protective clothing wasn't common until recently.
Until recent contact with Europeans, tropical peoples often went naked or nearly so.

I'm saying other apes have different skills, exceeding humans in some, and lagging in others. Environment/natural selection select for which capabilities develop.

But humans did not "record history" about these fish evolving because ... They just didn't need to...right? And, of course, not enough time according to Darwinian figures has passed to observe genetic evolution real-time by humans, isn't that true for you?

I don't follow.
What would the point of recording the natural history of lungfish, mudskippers or snakeheads? Everyone knew the local fauna, and anything that needed to be communicated about it could be done by word of mouth.

How would paleolithic man notice evolution? It's not like it happened in a single lifetime, and their knowledge of fossils, DNA or even selective breeding was nil.

 

[YoursTrue]

What does all this clothing and writing have to do with evolution, anyway? They had nothing to do with the evolution of modern man.

We developed in tropical regions, with no need for clothing. The first clothing was decorative, not protective. Modern man was fully developed by the time he moved to regions that required insulation.

Likewise writing. We had the mental capacity to write 20,000 years ago. We just didn't There was no need.
Useful inventions appear haphazardly, and will only catch on if the culture, infrastructure and social attitudes are ripe for them.

The steam engine was invented 2,000 years ago, but there was no automation or locomotives till ~200 years ago.
When I was a boy there were no wheels on luggage. People were hand carrying luggage for thousands of years. Did we evolve a sufficient degree of cleverness only 40 years ago?

Not to change the subject too much,but why do you think (imagine) that gorillas and bonobos do not write their history? Any idea about that? You think it's because of the difference of genes between humans and bonobos?

 

[YoursTrue]

Early humans lived in tropical Africa, where protective clothing wasn't common until recently.
Until recent contact with Europeans, tropical peoples often went naked or nearly so.

I'm saying other apes have different skills, exceeding humans in some, and lagging in others. Environment/natural selection select for which capabilities develop.
I don't follow.
What would the point of recording the natural history of lungfish, mudskippers or snakeheads? Everyone knew the local fauna, and anything that needed to be communicated about it could be done by word of mouth.

How would paleolithic man notice evolution? It's not like it happened in a single lifetime, and their knowledge of fossils, DNA or even selective breeding was nil.

That's kind of what I said. Bonobos and gorillas have seemingly stayed as they are (no writing, no reading, no clothing they make) for a long time.

 

[Valjean]

a lot. But maybe someone else can answer you if they get the point.

I hope so, cause I really don't see your point. Of course, you could simplify things by just explaining.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not to change the subject too much,but why do you think (imagine) that gorillas and bonobos do not write their history? Any idea about that? You think it's because of the difference of genes between humans and bonobos?

Do you have any idea how recent writing is for humans even? For over 90% of human history, we did not have the ability to write.

 

[YoursTrue]

Early humans lived in tropical Africa, where protective clothing wasn't common until recently.
Until recent contact with Europeans, tropical peoples often went naked or nearly so.

I'm saying other apes have different skills, exceeding humans in some, and lagging in others. Environment/natural selection select for which capabilities develop.
I don't follow.
What would the point of recording the natural history of lungfish, mudskippers or snakeheads? Everyone knew the local fauna, and anything that needed to be communicated about it could be done by word of mouth.

How would paleolithic man notice evolution? It's not like it happened in a single lifetime, and their knowledge of fossils, DNA or even selective breeding was nil.

How would gorillas notice evolution? And why would they? As far as you know, how long have gorillas been gorillas. How long have humans been humans? Would a gorilla be able to tell you? Is it capable of telling you, or would you say, as some may, you don't know? Maybe a person might think a gorilla knows how to write but doesn't want to. You think that's possible? Because if a person says (as someone might), 'anything is possible...,' 'we don't know,' etc., it's time to go on a late night talk show.

 

[YoursTrue]

I hope so, cause I really don't see your point. Of course, you could simplify things by just explaining.

No, because someone else here claims to be an expert type in the bible -- I'll bet he knows. But maybe he doesn't. Maybe he's not reading the posts between you and me, but frankly, if he doesn't know -- that's somewhat expected also.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, because someone else here claims to be an expert type in the bible -- I'll bet he knows. But maybe he doesn't. Maybe he's not reading the posts between you and me, but frankly, if he doesn't know -- that's somewhat expected also.

Oh my! Is she talking about me? I have never claimed to be an expert on the Bible. I do tend to understand it better than most Christians. That is because I can analyze it from several different angles. I think I got her mad. How, I do not know.

 

[Valjean]

Mixing sheep or vegetation, for example, is not changing on the limbs of the supposed tree of evolution. Same with skin color, shortness or tallness among humans. They're still human

If you acknowledge that small changes can occur, what prevents them from accumulating?
Noöne notices language changing, but, given time, whole new languages emerge. Small changes accumulate.

Another thing...the only thing to explain the gaps of genes from gorillas to humans is imagination.

Why do you insist on expounding on subjects you know nothing of?

 

[Valjean]

Learning to read takes time, too. Does not prove or show we evolved from some Unknown Common Ancestor. Gorillas don't teach each other how to read, do they? So their "progress" could be considered limited.

That's my whole point! Intelligence and inventions or modern skills, are only marginally connected.
So again, I don't understand how you're tying this into evolution.

Ok I'll say it again. Hopefully you'll understand. Either God developed humans, the ones Darwinian believers say came by natural selection from some Unknown Common Ancestor or He did not. As I have continually said, I used to accept evolution as the reason 'we' are alive. I no longer do, but...it requires some thinking. And examination and...moreso.

And none of your examples give any clue to this question. The same developmental situation would have obtained whether man was magically poofed into existence, or evolved by natural selection.

 

[Valjean]

Not to change the subject too much,but why do you think (imagine) that gorillas and bonobos do not write their history? Any idea about that? You think it's because of the difference of genes between humans and bonobos?

No! That's what you think.

Q: Why do you think humans didn't write their history?

 

[Valjean]

On what basis do you assert humans were around 20,000 years ago?

Dated bones, artifacts and m-DNA.

 

[metis]

Do apes (not those said by evolutionists as the human kind) write?

What does that have to do with anything I posted?

 

[metis]

I know you don't really believe the Bible,

That is absolutely false. Different interpretations doesn't mean the other doesn't believe in scripture.

but here's a little thought for you--when Adam and Eve realized they were naked, it wasn't because they were cold.

And here's a thought for you: allegorical.

 

[gnostic]

How would gorillas notice evolution? And why would they? As far as you know, how long have gorillas been gorillas. How long have humans been humans? Would a gorilla be able to tell you? Is it capable of telling you, or would you say, as some may, you don't know? Maybe a person might think a gorilla knows how to write but doesn't want to. You think that's possible? Because if a person says (as someone might), 'anything is possible...,' 'we don't know,' etc., it's time to go on a late night talk show.

All of this, is just plain nonsense.

Do you really enjoy making up unrealistic strawman claims?