Does Freewill Exist in the Bible?

[Hockeycowboy]

No, I don't believe that freewill exists in the Bible. First, I'll explain my position by re-posting a couple of paragraphs of my OP in a thread I started awhile back. And secondly, I'll post a few scriptures about God predestining certain people to be saved.

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1-6; Isaiah 46:9-10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). If God has infinite knowledge and wisdom (omniscient) and infinite power (omnipotent), and he is present everywhere simultaneously (omnipresent), then he knew ahead of time that Adam and Eve would fall into temptation with the apple, and they would disobey him. IOW, the fall of humanity was foreknown by God.

If the bible is correct about God's attributes of omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence, then it stands to reason that he knows everything that happened in the past, what happens in the present, and what will happen in the future. The Bible also says that God knows our innermost being, and he knew us before we were born (Psalm 139:13-16). Furthermore, if God is all-knowing, then he also knows our every thought and every decision that we have ever made, and the decisions we will make in the future.

According to the Bible, God predestines certain people to be saved. These people are the Elect and are chosen by God before the foundation of the world (Matthew 22:14; John 6:44; John 15:16; John 15:19; Acts 2:23; Acts 13:48; Romans 8:28-30; Galatians 1:15; Ephesians 1:4-5; Ephesians 1:11-12; Colossians 3:12; 1 Corinthians 1:26-29; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 1:20; 2 Peter 1:10; Revelation 13:8).

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord works out everything to its proper end—even the wicked for a day of disaster."

Jehovah knows how situations will work out, but He doesn’t necessarily know who will be involved.

Jehovah sees what is in our heart, to be sure...and He’s aware of our inclinations. But He gives us humans dignity in making our own decisions, and He doesn’t see which choice we’ll make.

For example, why would God have tried to reason with Cain as He did in Genesis 4:6-7, if He already knew what Cain would do? (That would’ve been a waste of time & effort.) Because Jehovah didn’t know.

Another example is w/ Abraham offering up Isaac in Genesis 22;
God told Abraham after he tried: “Now I know that you fear me.”
IOW, before, God didn’t know.

There are other instances in Scripture where Jehovah, in dealing with people, changed His mind. Because they changed their actions.

You can apply this to A&E...Jehovah didn’t know. Deuteronomy 32:4-5

Take care.

 

[1213]

I see people claim freewill is implied by the bible or that freewill is a theological necessity but is it really?

Of course I see the concept of choice in the Bible but the ability to choose doesn't not by itself freewill.
When we make a choice, are we not compelled by external factors into the choice me made?
...

I think free will means person is free to want whatever he wants. It does not mean person is omnipotent and things go always as he wants. And it does not even mean that person can choose everything.

I can't tell about you, perhaps you don't have free will, I have.

 

[Clara Tea]

I see people claim freewill is implied by the bible or that freewill is a theological necessity but is it really?

Of course I see the concept of choice in the Bible but the ability to choose doesn't not by itself freewill.
When we make a choice, are we not compelled by external factors into the choice me made?

For example, I made a choice not to have a belief about God, but there existed many external factors which caused me to make this choice.

Is it possible to show conclusively that freewill is a biblical concept?

Free will is allowed as long as you do as you are told.

You must interpret the bible the right way, not the wrong way.

You must pray to the right God, not wrong one.

In a religion of hatred, one must hate Gays, hate Jews, and hate other denominations. You are free to hate anyone you want, as long as you also hate the right ones. In some parts of the country, you must hate Blacks for coming to America chained in slave ships and taking away jobs of Americans. Does the logic seem backwards?

You are free to obey God's law "thou shalt not kill" as long as you kill those that fellow humans tell you to kill." Hence: war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, and torture camps.

You are free to tell the truth, as long as you tell the lies that you are told to tell. Lies about "fighting the Axis of Evil"....lies about torture camps not existing (and redefinitions of the word "torture)." Lies about a loving God who answers prayers.

You can't follow another without following another's immorality.

 

[Clara Tea]

I think free will means person is free to want whatever he wants. It does not mean person is omnipotent and things go always as he wants. And it does not even mean that person can choose everything.

I can't tell about you, perhaps you don't have free will, I have.

Free will: (good to heaven....bad to hell). Bad has temptations (the sins....greed, pride, etc). Bad follows Satan (fear, lies, wars, torture camps).

We feared another terrorist attack, so we reacted with that fear by attacking peaceful nations, not linked to terrorism, that were located in a part of the world that was somewhat close to the terrorists. We didn't kill the right 1,000,000 people, but felt safer when we killed 1,000,000 people who were somewhat nearby.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see people claim freewill is implied by the bible or that freewill is a theological necessity but is it really?

Of course I see the concept of choice in the Bible but the ability to choose doesn't not by itself freewill.
When we make a choice, are we not compelled by external factors into the choice me made?

For example, I made a choice not to have a belief about God, but there existed many external factors which caused me to make this choice.

Is it possible to show conclusively that freewill is a biblical concept?

We are all limited by own own limitations regardless of belief or disbelief. All people must eat, drink and sleep to survive. We all are also subject to sickness and physical death.

Within this framework we can choose our lifestyle and behaviour but even this is restricted according to the laws of the society we live in. So ever since humans existed we have had limited free will.

 

[rational experiences]

A book.

Thought about by hu man's.
Written by humans.
Made into a book by humans.

Did humans know reading writing first?

No. We were taught told to use the concept.

Book. Conditions to read book coerced. Natural existed first is the teaching.

 

[all souls loved]

The Bible tells us to choose, thus telling us to use our freewill:

1) Joshua 24:15: “Choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord”

2) Deuteronomy 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."

Humans, even dogs and cats make choices regarding obedience to their master.

 

[all souls loved]

We choose or reject Yeshua as our master. This tells us we have freewill.

Once we make our choice, we choose on a daily basis, to live out that initial choice. As a born-again Christian, I have been empowered to live out the Christian life and fulfill Yeshua's will for my life. But I still have freewill to choose to subject my will to His will on a daily basis....or to go my own way.

Before I became a born-again Christian, I had freewill to reject Yeshua on a daily basis. I woke up every morning asking myself what I was willing to do that day, based on my own desires.

After I became a born-again Christian, I had freewill to be obedient to Yeshua on a daily basis. I wake up every morning and ask myself whether I will or will not be obedient to Yeshua that day.

At no time did I not have freewill.

 

[all souls loved]

In the last days when Christians are persecuted and may have to die for their faith, some will not be willing to die for their faith:

Matthew 24:9: "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith..."

Some will choose to reject Yeshua to save themselves and their families.

 

[all souls loved]

With regards to Christians falling away from the faith during the Last Days persecution, this will be directly related to being able to buy food:

The prophecies in the book of Revelation tells us a One World Order is coming someday in the future where ALL of us will be forced to bow down to the anti-Christ. If we refuse to bow to him.....

1. Revelation 13:8-15: "And ALL who dwell on the earth will worship him...and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed." (This threat of death mostly applies to the small minority of the Christian remnant who will be given the supernatural power and courage to resist and oppose the anti-Christ. Everybody else would have buckled under the pressure and taken the mark in order to live, including power-less ex-Christians who renounced their faith.)
2. Revelation 13:7: "It was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them (many Christians will be killed), and authority over every tribe and people and language and nation was given to him."
   
3. The anti-Christ will appear to die and come back to life and do miracles, thus mimicking Jesus. Revelation 13:3, 13: "The dragon (Satan) gave him (the anti-Christ) his power and...his fatal wound was healed. Verse 13: He performs great signs and even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men."
4. Revelation 13:16: "He causes ALL ... to be given a mark on their right hand or forehead, and that no one should be able to buy or sell, except the one who has the mark - either the name of the beast or the number of his name...his number is 666." (nobody knows what 666 means or what the mark may be. Possibly a tattoo, an implant, etc. but will also require worship of the anti-Christ.)

 

[all souls loved]

Here is a hypothetical situation where a Christian may recant and fall away from their faith in order to buy food for their family:

A grandparent can't bear to see his grandchild starve to death, so he may buckle under the pressure, renounce Christianity, worship the Anti-Christ and take the mark, just to get baby formula, for example.

This is why Jesus said many Christians will fall away from the faith during the 42-month period of the Anti-Christ's reign.

 

[1213]

...
We feared another terrorist attack, so we reacted with that fear by attacking peaceful nations, not linked to terrorism, that were located in a part of the world that was somewhat close to the terrorists. We didn't kill the right 1,000,000 people, but felt safer when we killed 1,000,000 people who were somewhat nearby.

That is very sad. And I believe those who think they have some excuse for their actions will be disappointed.

 

[Nakosis]

I think free will means person is free to want whatever he wants. It does not mean person is omnipotent and things go always as he wants. And it does not even mean that person can choose everything.

I can't tell about you, perhaps you don't have free will, I have.

Ok, but I'm wondering if this is supported by the Bible. Not whether or not we have freewill.

 

[Nakosis]

What type of free will would you like to have, that you don't have at the moment? And what would God have to do with it?

Personally, I like having standards and choice is great, but if there's too much I just get confused and tired. For example, in the big super markets there are 20 brands of pasta, and there I am looking at all the packages with different colors and sizes and prices, with gluten, without gluten, fast cooking, long cooking with all kinds of shapes and, it's pasta for crying out loud! What do I want all that for? Just get me a package of good old spaghetti. Sometimes having a lot of choices is not necessarily a good thing, and since most of those pasta brands come from the same companies who happen to own different brands, you're ne being give free will, they just sell you that illusion.
I've diverted a bit here. Like someone else pointed out, we need to deal with the consequences of our choices. Having free will is great, but used wrong the consequences can be very negative. That's why I find it useful to have guidelines. I don't steal because I know it's wrong, but I also don't want to go to jail. I don't drive at 75 mph in the city center because I'd get fined and lose my license, but also because it's very dangerous.
Having limits to our so called freedom can be a very good thing.

Ok, but what I am really looking for is what the Bible has to say about it.

Me, I suspect humans have the potential for freewill but rarely if ever use it.

 

[Nakosis]

You said you are an atheist. You chose.
Nobody forced you to be an atheist.

Choice, the ability to choose by itself, is not an indication of freewill.
I choose what seems to be the best to choose. Would I, could I actually choose what seemed to be wrong and accept it as the best choice?

 

[Estro Felino]

Choice, the ability to choose by itself, is not an indication of freewill.
I choose what seems to be the best to choose. Would I, could I actually choose what seemed to be wrong and accept it as the best choice?

Define free will, then.

 

[Vee]

Ok, but what I am really looking for is what the Bible has to say about it.

Me, I suspect humans have the potential for freewill but rarely if ever use it.

I don't know if this helps, but over 2500 years ago Jeremiah wrote the following: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jer. 10:23)
So, as much as we were created with certain skills and freedoms, in the end, based on the Bible, we need God's guidance.

 

[metis]

"Free will" [Arminianism] is the opposite of predestination, thus that we have the free will to choose what may be good or bad and that we are not predestined by God.

 

[1213]

Ok, but I'm wondering if this is supported by the Bible. Not whether or not we have freewill.

I think it is implicitly in the Bible. People are shown as independent individuals who make decisions on their own, as I think it is in reality also.

 

[Nakosis]

I think it is implicitly in the Bible. People are shown as independent individuals who make decisions on their own, as I think it is in reality also.

Do you have an example?