Does God allow witchcraft to work?

[Francine]

In 1 Samuel 28:7-20 the witch of Endor summons the prophet Samuel from the dead. Either the witch had the power to yank Samuel's soul from heaven against God's will, or God allowed the witch to call him back to Earth. If it is the former, then witchcraft has power over God. If it is the latter, then God approves of witchcraft.

 

[athanasius]

In 1 Samuel 28:7-20 the witch of Endor summons the prophet Samuel from the dead. Either the witch had the power to yank Samuel's soul from heaven against God's will, or God allowed the witch to call him back to Earth. If it is the former, then witchcraft has power over God. If it is the latter, then God approves of witchcraft.

Witchcraft does work in many cases as exorcist will tell you. God does not approve of witchcraft as he condemns the practices all over the bible, but he allows it because of our free will. In the same way God does not approves of sin but he allows it.

 

[MoonWater]

Witchcraft does work in many cases as exorcist will tell you. God does not approve of witchcraft as he condemns the practices all over the bible, but he allows it because of our free will. In the same way God does not approves of sin but he allows it.

But why/how could he allow a soul to be pulled out of heaven? To do that would be to allow more than just witchcraft but to allow a soul that has already been saved to be yanked away from God against that souls will. So by allowing one to have free will he has denied the other free will.(unless the soul wanted to be summoned but considering the bible's take on witchcraft I doubt that would be the case.)

 

[athanasius]

But why/how could he allow a soul to be pulled out of heaven? To do that would be to allow more than just witchcraft but to allow a soul that has already been saved to be yanked away from God against that souls will. So by allowing one to have free will he has denied the other free will.(unless the soul wanted to be summoned but considering the bible's take on witchcraft I doubt that would be the case.)

To begin with Heaven is not a place, the soul is beyond time and space so the soul may not have been pulled out of anything. But some theologians theorize that it may be a demon appearing as Saul as this is common in exorcism cases. However it may have been Saul. If the latter be true then it is a mystery that only God may know. However, personally I view the former opinion. Good question through.

 

[MoonWater]

To begin with Heaven is not a place, the soul is beyond time and space so the soul may not have been pulled out of anything. But some theologians theorize that it may be a demon appearing as Saul as this is common in exorcism cases. However it may have been Saul. If the latter be true then it is a mystery that only God may know. However, personally I view the former opinion. Good question through.

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

 

[athanasius]

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

Your welcome!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To begin with Heaven is not a place, the soul is beyond time and space so the soul may not have been pulled out of anything. But some theologians theorize that it may be a demon appearing as Saul as this is common in exorcism cases. However it may have been Saul. If the latter be true then it is a mystery that only God may know. However, personally I view the former opinion. Good question through.

But isn't is possible that it indeed was Samuel appearing, on his own will, before Saul? That is what I believed on the subject.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What a wonderful topic! As a former witch, I can tell you that the power of Magick is very real! Allowing present day mortals to experience the supernatural only proves it's existence. Something that Christianity considered a vulgar display of power. Christianity requires faith where Witchcraft is less demanding providing proof positive that its power on earth is real.

Here is where I had my Epiphany. If Witchcraft is real, God must be real too. If God is real, so is the Devil. They really are all dependant on each other. If you believe in one, you logically should believe in them all.

 

[Willamena]

But why/how could he allow a soul to be pulled out of heaven? To do that would be to allow more than just witchcraft but to allow a soul that has already been saved to be yanked away from God against that souls will. So by allowing one to have free will he has denied the other free will.(unless the soul wanted to be summoned but considering the bible's take on witchcraft I doubt that would be the case.)

What makes you think, in this case of Samuel, that it was against his will? He came to explain to Saul that the LORD had withdrawn his hand from him, because Saul just wasn't getting the message through his usual means of divination.

 

[Draka]

What a wonderful topic! As a former witch, I can tell you that the power of Magick is very real! Allowing present day mortals to experience the supernatural only proves it's existence. Something that Christianity considered a vulgar display of power. Christianity requires faith where Witchcraft is less demanding providing proof positive that its power on earth is real.

Here is where I had my Epiphany. If Witchcraft is real, God must be real too. If God is real, so is the Devil. They really are all dependant on each other. If you believe in one, you logically should believe in them all.

Not necessarily. You can believe in witchcraft and have a belief in some other source of Divinity. There is no requirement that links witchcraft with the Abrahamic god. Certainly not with the "Devil". The bible may be acknowledging the existence of witchcraft, but it certainly doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.

That's like saying that because there are tales of Zeus weilding lightning then the existence of lightning therefore proves the existence of Zeus. Would you agree with that?

 

[Azakel]

What a wonderful topic! As a former witch, I can tell you that the power of Magick is very real! Allowing present day mortals to experience the supernatural only proves it's existence. Something that Christianity considered a vulgar display of power. Christianity requires faith where Witchcraft is less demanding providing proof positive that its power on earth is real.

Here is where I had my Epiphany. If Witchcraft is real, God must be real too. If God is real, so is the Devil. They really are all dependant on each other. If you believe in one, you logically should believe in them all.

Not necessarily. You can believe in witchcraft and have a belief in some other source of Divinity. There is no requirement that links witchcraft with the Abrahamic god. Certainly not with the "Devil". The bible may be acknowledging the existence of witchcraft, but it certainly doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.

That's like saying that because there are tales of Zeus weilding lightning then the existence of lightning therefore proves the existence of Zeus. Would you agree with that?

I'm going to have to agree with Draka here Rev. Just beause magic works doen't mean that it has anything to do with God or the Devil. Magic has existed for thousands of year in all cultures. And my answer to the OP, the reason way "God" allows thing such as Witchcraft and Magic is because he can do nothing about it.

 

[TrueBlue2]

In 1 Samuel 28:7-20 the witch of Endor summons the prophet Samuel from the dead. Either the witch had the power to yank Samuel's soul from heaven against God's will, or God allowed the witch to call him back to Earth. If it is the former, then witchcraft has power over God. If it is the latter, then God approves of witchcraft.

Neither God, or Samuel, would obey the directives of a witch. Are you kidding? The witch of Endor summoned somebody, but only someone who would pay any attention to the Satanic power she was using. The person she spoke to was an evil spirit, doing their best to imitate Samuel.

 

[TrueBlue2]

To begin with Heaven is not a place, the soul is beyond time and space so the soul may not have been pulled out of anything...

Huh?? The soul just kind of exists in some amorphous undefined whatever beyond time and space. That's nonsense and false doctrine.

 

[TrueBlue2]

What makes you think, in this case of Samuel, that it was against his will? He came to explain to Saul that the LORD had withdrawn his hand from him, because Saul just wasn't getting the message through his usual means of divination.

Samuel would not have deigned to obey the beckoning call of a witch. An authorized and powerful servant of God obeying a servant of the devil? The thought makes me cringe. No, the spirit that was summoned was also another follower of the devil. And that is always the case! True servants of God would only answer to someone authorized to speak for God. Samuel would have obeyed the beckoning call of Christ, but not Satan.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Not necessarily. You can believe in witchcraft and have a belief in some other source of Divinity. There is no requirement that links witchcraft with the Abrahamic god. Certainly not with the "Devil". The bible may be acknowledging the existence of witchcraft, but it certainly doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.

That's like saying that because there are tales of Zeus weilding lightning then the existence of lightning therefore proves the existence of Zeus. Would you agree with that?

I agree with your logic. :yes:

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm going to have to agree with Draka here Rev. Just beause magic works doen't mean that it has anything to do with God or the Devil. Magic has existed for thousands of year in all cultures. And my answer to the OP, the reason way "God" allows thing such as Witchcraft and Magic is because he can do nothing about it.

I never said Witchcraft had anything to do with God or the Devil. Thanks for clarifying this point.

 

[MoonWater]

What makes you think, in this case of Samuel, that it was against his will? He came to explain to Saul that the LORD had withdrawn his hand from him, because Saul just wasn't getting the message through his usual means of divination.

Hence what I put in parenthases.

(unless the soul wanted to be summoned but considering the bible's take on witchcraft I doubt that would be the case.)

I was also unaware of that last bit of the story. Gives a good reason as to why(if it were the REAL Saul) he would answer such a summons.

 

[doppelganger]

If it is the former, then witchcraft has power over God.

Undoubtedly so. Spellcasting (literally "word throwing", i.e. projecting words as having power outside one's perceptions and subjective context) is the heart and soul of religious dogma. "God" is almost invariably a creature of spellcasting (Tillich, Spinoza, Lao Tzu and a few other mystics excepted).

 

[Francine]

Undoubtedly so. Spellcasting (literally, projecting words as having power outside one's perceptions and subjective context) is the heart and soul of religious dogma. "God" is almost invariably a creature of spellcasting (Tillich, Spinoza, Lao Tzu and a few other mystics excepted).

There is an incantation that makes God prepare a mansion for you and keep you fed and clothed for all eternity. It goes like this:

"Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner, and I believe you died for me. Please come into my heart as my Personal Lord and Savior, Amen."

 

[doppelganger]

There is an incantation that makes God prepare a mansion for you and keep you fed and clothed for all eternity. It goes like this:

"Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner, and I believe you died for me. Please come into my heart as my Personal Lord and Savior, Amen."

Precisely.