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Does God exist?

9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Willamena said:
Our images compose the world-as-we-know-it. The world-as-we-know-it is the sum our understanding it --our worldview.
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I still don't see what you're getting at. Or rather, I don't see how this is relevant to what you said before.

Willamena said:
Understanding happens now. Not yesterday, not a minute or a second ago. Now. The world-as-we-know-it is here, now.
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When one talks about things in the present, one is necessarily not talking about the future.

As an analogy, if I say to you "will you sell me your car?", I'm talking about the car you have now, not some car you're going to have at some point in the future (presumably to replace the one you sold to me).

When you ask me to distinguish my understanding of reality from reality itself, you're implicitly talking about a "snap shot" of my understanding now, at the time when you ask me... one that I can refer back to later.

Willamena said:
Yes! Finally, we're approaching god. "God" cannot be said to be anything or nothing. Yet, the world remains.

The Tao that is spoken is not the eternal Tao.
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IOW, AFAICT, you're saying that any time you use the terms "God" or "Tao", you're really just talking out of your butt with absolutely no foundation... right?

You've taken away any possible means for there to be any relationship at all between what you describe as "God" and whatever it is that's left when you "subtract everything and nothing". Using the term "God" to describe it would be no more valid than calling it "Satan", "the colour green" or "rice pudding".

If whatever it is really is God, then you're basically saying that all images of God are false, since they're not actually images of the thing they claim to be of.

Willamena said:
Or are those concepts of "God"? We understand (hold an image of) concepts, just as we hold an image of everything else in the world.
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AFAICT, by what you're implying, concepts of God can't exist at all. In that case, I guess they wouldn't be.

If you mean something else, then I have no idea what you're trying to say.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I still don't see what you're getting at. Or rather, I don't see how this is relevant to what you said before.


When one talks about things in the present, one is necessarily not talking about the future.

As an analogy, if I say to you "will you sell me your car?", I'm talking about the car you have now, not some car you're going to have at some point in the future (presumably to replace the one you sold to me).

When you ask me to distinguish my understanding of reality from reality itself, you're implicitly talking about a "snap shot" of my understanding now, at the time when you ask me... one that I can refer back to later.


IOW, AFAICT, you're saying that any time you use the terms "God" or "Tao", you're really just talking out of your butt with absolutely no foundation... right?

You've taken away any possible means for there to be any relationship at all between what you describe as "God" and whatever it is that's left when you "subtract everything and nothing". Using the term "God" to describe it would be no more valid than calling it "Satan", "the colour green" or "rice pudding".

If whatever it is really is God, then you're basically saying that all images of God are false, since they're not actually images of the thing they claim to be of.


AFAICT, by what you're implying, concepts of God can't exist at all. In that case, I guess they wouldn't be.

If you mean something else, then I have no idea what you're trying to say.
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I surrender. :)
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
One that doesn't have contradictions, within itself or against something we know to be true.

And I notice you've not been able to provide a coherent idea of what God is.
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Because you're trying to treat two different results as the same thing. (Unless you can be clearer on how I can subtract both everything and nothing simultaneously? The mathematics I learnt doesn't let you do that.)
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
PolyHedral said:
Because you're trying to treat two different results as the same thing. (Unless you can be clearer on how I can subtract both everything and nothing simultaneously? The mathematics I learnt doesn't let you do that.)
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No, I'm offering up one equation, looking for one result.

Methods are a'plenty, from philosophical (existentialism) to practical (meditation).
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
... having removed both your means to obtain a result and your ability to look for it.


But aren't both of these part of either "everything" or "nothing"?
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Mentally grasping an idea of the subtract, and acquiring the image, has no effect on the world. (Or total effect on the world, depending on perspective.)
 
PolyHedral

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
But you've not provided an idea of how you can "subtract" two different things and arrive at the same answer.
 
HeatherAnn

HeatherAnn

Active Member
John D said:
I assume this debate is about the existence of the God of the Bible.
It is after all always Him that people are trying to either ignore or to forget. I don't think the human mind (or soul or spirit) truly have a problem with the god concept. It is all about "that God"! We don't like the idea of being owned, being property.
We want to own and control - a god that can be manipulated into obeying my orders and wishes, now that is a useful God - in him/her I can believe in.
To truly believe in the Christian God, you have to believe in the authority of the Bible and if you accept that, you have to obey and live by it.
The only alternative is ignoring this God's existence. It won't help much, though. Because this God is a Seeker and a Hunter. If you are on His "list", He will find you and make Himself known to you. If He doesn't - don't worry about it, you still got all your philosophies!
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I see it similarly.
It seems obvious that everyone has a god of worship - they just don't call it god.
It's more helpful to be honest, though & call it what it is.

Paul Tillich explained that God is one's "ultimate concern" & it's silly to argue whether one's ultimate concern is truly ultimate or not. The main concern is to discover which symbol of ultimacy most authentically expresses the ultimate without false elements. It's a trial & error process, IMO. We don't know what's ultimately best to prioritize - or if we do, sometimes we choose otherwise anyway. Live & learn!
 
T

tempter

Active Member
Autodidact said:
This thread is to debate the question of the existence of God.
I hope we can have reasoned, civilized conversation about this important issue.

So:
Does God exist?
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As a being, I would say NO God doesn't exists as I've seen nothing to prove the existence of God at all.
However, I would say God does exist in as much as it is something that many believe in.
I guess, then, it would depend on how one defines God.
 
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