Does God forgive???

[Assad91]

I do not agree but as there is no way to settle the issue I will not attempt it. I will only add that if the two experiences were the same you would not have made your initial comment. When I experienced God there was no doubt that my sins had been forgiven and no possible counter explanation for the effects I experienced.
That is a common Islamic claim. Staring at Islam is like staring at the sun, it can't be done for long because it is painful. I do not think I know you so let me clarify what I think about Islam. I think it is wrong and terribly wrong. I believe it's a far less theologically, philosophically, and historically justified faith on every level things like this are examined compared with the Bible. However I like many Muslims, Islamic architecture, and Arabian history. I take people one at a time, and I judge concepts not people in debate so take nothing I say personally.

Allah guides only whom he wishes to guide.

Or do they say, 'He has forged it'? Say: 'If I have forged it, you have no power to help me against Allah. He knows very well what you are pressing upon; He suffices as a witness between me and you; He is the All-forgiving, the All-compassionate.' Say: 'I am not an innovation among the Messengers, and I know not what shall be done with me or with you. I only follow what is revealed to me; I am only a clear warner.' S. 46:8-9 Meccan

He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266)

This is not an Islam thread so I will not supply the other 98% of the info indicating what I claimed is believed by many respected Islamic scholars as well. If you wish to debate Islam or Muhammad we can do so in another location.

If you were honest about this discussion you stroke up, then you would've looked at the links. They explain these two single sources for your argument. Whichh leads me to think you are not truly looking to learn or be honest in a civil discussion, but only looking towards trash talking Islam and boasting you religions supremacy.

 

[1robin]

Allah guides only whom he wishes to guide.

What was that an argument for? What was it in response to? If I said well Yahweh reveals himself to who he will. What would you think that means here? Would you think you were wrong or that I was right? Would that statement clear anything up, prove anything, or disprove anything. I am not picking on you. You probably did not want a debate and that was a way out that was a way of objecting to what I said without offering anything that can be evaluated. No problem, I just get curious sometimes.

If you were honest about this discussion you stroke up, then you would've looked at the links. They explain these two single sources for your argument. Which leads me to think you are not truly looking to learn or be honest in a civil discussion, but only looking towards trash talking Islam and boasting you religions supremacy.

I have debated countless Muslims, I have watched them debate countless times. I have changed tactics, styles, methods, approach, and verbiage. Nothing makes any difference. The response always goes the same way. I claim X. The Muslim responds BIAS, SOURCES, HOSTILITY, shifts burden of proof, indicates the Bible is the same, and eventually simply disappears. The whole time rarely giving a competent counter argument or even attempting one. The only Muslim that does none of these is Shabir Alli. He is the model I wish all would follow. Deedat didn’t yell bias every five minutes but his arguments stunk but I did like him. A source I gave is a primary Islamic source (Sahih al-Bukhari) but there are others for this well known event. Your entire response above could have been. All claims that are inconvenient are biased and dismissed. You did not have to go through all that other stuff. I apologize, it just gets frustrating when it always goes the same way. I will not comment further as I do not think you desire a debate. God Bless, have a good afternoon.

 

[Assad91]

What was that an argument for? What was it in response to? If I said well Yahweh reveals himself to who he will. What would you think that means here? Would you think you were wrong or that I was right? Would that statement clear anything up, prove anything, or disprove anything. I am not picking on you. You probably did not want a debate and that was a way out that was a way of objecting to what I said without offering anything that can be evaluated. No problem, I just get curious sometimes.

You are entitled to your own opinion. You say you and others feel a certain way which is purely emotional and personal. I told you how I feel emotionally and personally. You said you didn't believe me because of what I originally. Well, okay.. How am I able to prove to you on the internet how I emotionally and personally feel during a certain time during salah? I can't. It is logically impossible. Especially with such a thing as an emotion. A personal experience felt only in ones heart.

As for how you feel about Islam itself, that is again, how you feel. It is not my job to change your opinion.

I have debated countless Muslims, I have watched them debate countless times. I have changed tactics, styles, methods, approach, and verbiage. Nothing makes any difference. The response always goes the same way. I claim X. The Muslim responds BIAS, SOURCES, HOSTILITY, shifts burden of proof, indicates the Bible is the same, and eventually simply disappears. The whole time rarely giving a competent counter argument or even attempting one. The only Muslim that does none of these is Shabir Alli. He is the model I wish all would follow. Deedat didn’t yell bias every five minutes but his arguments stunk but I did like him. A source I gave is a primary Islamic source (Sahih al-Bukhari) but there are others for this well known event. Your entire response above could have been. All claims that are inconvenient are biased and dismissed. You did not have to go through all that other stuff. I apologize, it just gets frustrating when it always goes the same way. I will not comment further as I do not think you desire a debate. God Bless, have a good afternoon. [/font][/color]

Here you are assuming the links I posted contained claims of bias sources, shifting buden of poof, talks of bible, etc. Well, they don't. If you look at the links I posted they simply cite when the hadithh and verse you posted were said, and revealed. Then cites Al-kawtheer, a surah revealed later on, after the hadith and verse you posted happened, and the hadiths which deal with kawtheer. Citing many more hadiths and poofs that Prophet Muhammad (saws) knew he was going to paradise.

I expect that one iin a discussion would look at posted links and actually take time to read what another responds with. I apologize if that is not what a discussion on a forum isn't to you. I was under a different impression.

 

[Assad91]

Did The Prophet Know He Was Going to Heaven? The Qur'an Gives The Answer!


Time and again we've been faced with strange, inane claims made by Christian missionaries with clear intentions to defame Islam. Within the last year Nabeel Qureshi claimed that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was oblivious to whether he'd be granted entry into heaven or not. He alleges that there exists a dissatisfaction in comfort that comes with Islam, because one ultimately does not know his end, including the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

​

Unfortunately Nabeel's babble comes to a direct halt when faced with one of the most beautiful Surah's in the Quran: Surah Al-Kauther (or Al-Kawther). We have taken the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir and reproduced it below from IslamBasics, which clearly indicate the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) will reside in heaven, no questions asked:

The Tafsir of Surat Al-Kawthar​

(Chapter - 108)​

Which was revealed in Al-Madinah and They also say in Makkah​

​

[بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ ]​

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.​

[إِنَّآ أَعْطَيْنَـكَ الْكَوْثَرَ - فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَانْحَرْ - إِنَّ شَانِئَكَ هُوَ الاٌّبْتَرُ ]​

(1. Verily, We have granted you Al-Kawthar.) (2. Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice.) (3. For he who hates you, he will be cut off.)​

Muslim, Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i, all recorded from Anas[1] that he said, "While we were with the Messenger of Allah in the Masjid, he dozed off into a slumber. Then he lifted his head smiling. We said, `O Messenger of Allah! What has caused you to laugh' He said,

«لَقَدْ أُنْزِلَتْ عَلَيَّ آنِفًا سُورَة»​

(Verily, a Surah was just revealed to me.)​

Then he recited,

[إِنَّآ أَعْطَيْنَـكَ الْكَوْثَرَ - فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَانْحَرْ - إِنَّ شَانِئَكَ هُوَ الاٌّبْتَرُ ]​

(Verily, We have granted you Al-Kawthar. Therefore turn in prayer to your Lord and sacrifice. For he who hates you, he will be cut off.)​

Then he said,

«أَتَدْرُونَ مَا الْكَوْثَرُ؟»​

(Do you all know what is Al-Kawthar)

​

We said, `Allah and His Messenger know best.' He said,

«فَإِنَّهُ نَهَرٌ وَعَدَنِيهِ رَبِّي عَزَّ وَجَلَّ،عَلَيْهِ خَيْرٌ كَثِيرٌ، هُوَ حَوْضٌ تَرِدُ عَلَيْهِ أُمَّتِي يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ، آنِيَتُهُ عَدَدُ النُّجُومِ فِي السَّمَاءِ، فَيُخْتَلَجُ الْعَبْدُ مِنْهُمْ
فَأَقُولُ: رَبِّ إِنَّهُ مِنْ أُمَّتِي، فَيَقُولُ: إِنَّكَ لَا تَدْرِي مَا أَحْدَثَ بَعْدَك»​

(Verily, it is a river that my Lord, the Mighty and Majestic, has promised me and it has abundant goodness. It is a pond where my Ummah will be brought to on the Day of Judgement. Its containers are as numerous as the stars in the sky. Then a servant of Allah from among them will be (prevented from it) and I will say: "O Lord! Verily, he is from my Ummah (followers).'' Then He (Allah) will say: "Verily, you do not know what he introduced (or innovated) after you.)''[2]

​

This is the wording of Muslim. Ahmad recorded this Hadith from Muhammad bin Fudayl, who reported from Al-Mukhtar bin Fulful, who reported it from Anas bin Malik.[3]


Imam Ahmad also recorded from Anas that the Messenger of Allah said,

«دَخَلْتُ الْجَنَّةَ فَإِذَا أَنَا بِنَهْرٍ حَافَتَاهُ خِيَامُ اللُّؤْلُؤِ، فَضَرَبْتُ بِيَدِي إِلَى مَا يَجْرِي فِيهِ الْمَاءُ، فَإِذَا مِسْكٌ أَذْفَرُ، قُلْتُ: مَاهَذَا يَا جِبْرِيلُ؟ قَالَ: هَذَا الْكَوْثَرُ الَّذِي أَعْطَاكَهُ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَل»​

(I entered Paradise and I came to a river whose banks had tents made of pearls. So I thrust my hand into its flowing water and found that it was the strongest (smell) of musk. So I asked, "O Jibril! What is this'' He replied, "This is Al-Kawthar which Allah, the Mighty and Majestic has given you.'')[4]​

Al-Bukhari recorded this in his Sahih, and so did Muslim, on the authority of Anas bin Malik. In their version Anas said, "When the Prophet was taken up to the heaven, he said,

«أَتَيْتُ عَلَى نَهْرٍ حَافَتَاهُ قِبَابُ اللُّؤْلُؤِ الْمُجَوَّفِ فَقُلْتُ: مَا هَذَا يَا جِبْرِيلُ؟ قَالَ: هَذَا الْكَوْثَر»​

(I came to a river whose banks had domes of hollowed pearl. I said: "O Jibril! What is this'' He replied: "This is Al-Kawthar.'')''[5] This is the wording of Al-Bukhari.

​

Ahmad recorded from Anas that a man said, "O Messenger of Allah! What is Al-Kawthar'' He replied,

«هُوَ نَهْرٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ أَعْطَانِيهِ رَبِّي، لَهُوَ أَشَدُّ بَيَاضًا مِنَ اللَّبَنِ، وَأَحْلَى مِنَ الْعَسَلِ، فِيهِ طُيُورٌ أَعْنَاقُهَا كَأَعْنَاقِ الْجُزُر»​

(It is a river in Paradise which my Lord has given me. It is whiter than milk and sweeter than honey. There are birds in it whose necks are (long) like carrots.)

​

`Umar said, "O Messenger of Allah! Verily, they (the birds) will be beautiful.'' The Prophet replied,

«آكِلُهَا أَنْعَمُ مِنْهَا يَا عُمَر»​

(The one who eats them (i.e., the people of Paradise) will be more beautiful than them, O `Umar.)[6]

​

The Facts About Islam: Did The Prophet Know He Was Going to Heaven? The Qur'an Gives The Answer!

 

[Assad91]

Was Prophet Muhammad Uncertain of His Own Salvation?​

By​

​

Bassam Zawadi​

​

Christian missionaries argue that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was not certain about his own salvation according to Islamic sources. They put forth one Qur'anic verse and one hadith as proof for this. They are:

Surah 46:9


Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do i know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear." S. 46:9


Saheeh Bukhari


Volume 5, Book 58, Number 266:


Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:


An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds."

There are two solutions to this allegedly apparent problem.

The first possible solution is that the Qur'anic verse and statement of the Prophet (peace be upon him) came before the Prophet (peace be upon him) knew that he was going to paradise.

Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani states:

ولفظه " فوالله ما أدري وأنا رسول الله ما يفعل بي ولا بكم " وإنما قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذلك موافقة ​

لقوله تعالى في سورة الأحقاف ( قل ما كنت بدعا من الرسل , وما أدري ما يفعل بي ولا بكم ) وكان ذلك قبل نزول قوله تعالى ( ليغفر لك الله ما تقدم من ذنبك وما تأخر ) لأن الأحقاف مكية , وسورة الفتح مدنية بلا خلاف فيهما , وقد ثبت أنه صلى الله عليه وسلم قال " أنا أول من يدخل الجنة " وغير ذلك من الأخبار الصريحة في معناه , فيحتمل أن يحمل الإثبات في ذلك على العلم المجمل , والنفي على الإحاطة من حيث التفصيل .​

As for his expression "By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me", the Prophet (peace be upon him) uttered this in accordance with Allah's statement in Surah Al Ahqaaf "Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do i know what will be done with me or with you". This was before the revealing of the verse by Allah All Mighty "That Allah may forgive you your sins of the past and the future" (Surah 48:2) because Al Ahqaaf is a Makkan Surah, while Surah Al Fatah is a Madinan Surah and there is no contradiction between the two of them. And it has been established that he (peace be upon him) said "I am the first who will enter paradise" and there other reports which convey this meaning as well. So it is possible to sustain this (i.e. the fact that the Prophet doesn't know) on knowledge in a general sense, but negating the inclusiveness of the particulars. (Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Kitab: Al Janaaiz, Bab: Al Dukhool 'Ala Al Mayyit Ba'd Al Mawt izhaa Adraja fi Akfaanihi,Commentary on Hadith no. 1166, Source)





Was Prophet Muhammad Uncertain of His Own Salvation?

 

[1robin]

You are entitled to your own opinion. You say you and others feel a certain way which is purely emotional and personal. I told you how I feel emotionally and personally. You said you didn't believe me because of what I originally. Well, okay.. How am I able to prove to you on the internet how I emotionally and personally feel during a certain time during salah? I can't. It is logically impossible. Especially with such a thing as an emotion. A personal experience felt only in ones heart.

Yes that is the case. I agreed and indicated that this type of claim can't be decided. I was done with it. However your response being so vague and inapplicable I commented on it alone.

As for how you feel about Islam itself, that is again, how you feel. It is not my job to change your opinion.

I know. That issue was dropped by me the second I saw your response. There is no way to resolve things we do not have access to.

Here you are assuming the links I posted contained claims of bias sources, shifting buden of poof, talks of bible, etc. Well, they don't. If you look at the links I posted they simply cite when the hadithh and verse you posted were said, and revealed. Then cites Al-kawtheer, a surah revealed later on, after the hadith and verse you posted happened, and the hadiths which deal with kawtheer. Citing many more hadiths and poofs that Prophet Muhammad (saws) knew he was going to paradise.

No I didn't, I gave examples of the typical responses I see and it looked like yours were going to be along similar lines though not identical ones. See below.

I expect that one in a discussion would look at posted links and actually take time to read what another responds with. I apologize if that is not what a discussion on a forum isn't to you. I was under a different impression.

I did make a mistake. I did not notice a link you provided and thought what you were saying applied to a link to what I provided. Here was your statement:

If you were honest about this discussion you stroke up, then you would've looked at the links. They explain these two single sources for your argument. Which leads me to think you are not truly looking to learn or be honest in a civil discussion, but only looking towards trash talking Islam and boasting you religions supremacy.

It contains no links. I thought you meant links at a the site where my info came from. I knew very well what was at that site and knew that if that was the site you were questioning you were incorrect. That was indeed my fault. I do read most links but am on a DOD server and can't watch videos. I got the impression you did not desire a debate and this is the wrong thread for it anyway. If you do I would suggest Muhammad as a prophet, the Bible verses the Quran or something similar be discussed somewhere else. It is up to you. I will not pursue an Islamic subject further than I have in this thread.
OK I went back and figured out what had happened. You gave links back in post #176. You did not mention them, simply supplied them. You put them in a place where a lot of people leave a kind of mantra or saying many times and I have learned to never even look at anything written there. If you do wish to debate these issues I will go back and read the links but it must take place somewhere else.