Does God have free will?

[Aqualung]

How would diverting the hurricane be disasterous? This is the guy who supposedly created the earth in 6 days. Why can't he divert a hurricane without allowing any disasterous consequences?

Well, what would be the point of diverting the hurricane? To save lives? It doesn't matter how long we live here, and sometimes overcoming the loss of a loved one is one of the best ways to strengthen faith. To save people the damages? They knew full well when they moved there that they would probably get by a hurrican every once in a while. And, it strenghthens people. There are just certain things that God needs to let run their course.

 

[cardero]

I had overheard that GOD has to follow the laws of Nature in order for nature to operate well...naturally. Even though GOD developed and designed some of these laws I assume he has as much free will as we do, in other words GOD can do whatever GOD wants to do but there are consequences to these actions.

 

[Anon]

what would be the point of diverting the hurricane? To save lives?

Of course that would be the point! If people's lives are not important, then what do we have to thank God for, anyway? If God doesn't see any value in human life, then perhaps he is not worthy of much praise.

 

[Anon]

GOD can do whatever GOD wants to do

So you are saying that God is watching, and has free will, but he willed to do nothing about it. Sounds like a really compassionate God.

 

[Aqualung]

Of course that would be the point! If people's lives are not important, then what do we have to thank God for, anyway? If God doesn't see any value in human life, then perhaps he is not worthy of much praise.

Did you read past that first sentence? I said:

It doesn't matter how long we live here, and sometimes overcoming the loss of a loved one is one of the best ways to strengthen faith.

Could you be please try to be attentive enough to read entire thoughts? It might get you a bit further in life.

 

[Anon]

It doesn't matter how long we live here, and sometimes overcoming the loss of a loved one is one of the best ways to strengthen faith.

Ah, so God is killing loved ones in Lousiana, and making scores of others miserable, in order to strengthen their faith. That's real nice of him. Instead of doing that, wouldn't it be easier to just provide some proof of his existence? That's what would strengthen my faith.

 

[Aqualung]

Ah, so God is killing loved ones in Lousiana, and making scores of others miserable, in order to strengthen their faith.

He's not killing them. A hurricane is. But he has decided to not divert it. Perhaps one reason is because it can strengthen faith. Perhaps another reason is because if he diverts it, it will, in the long run, create a much more disasterous ecological event. PErhaps it's because we're in the end times, which will be categorized by natural disasters (and wars, and plagues, and other things). Perhaps it's because diversion would do more damage than letting it follow its course. You have no idea what would happen to our wheather if such things like this just stopped happening, or if some hurrican just got diverted.

Instead of doing that, wouldn't it be easier to just provide some proof of his existence? That's what would strengthen my faith.

There is proof. YOu just don't see it. You're in a state of blindness which you brought upon yourself.

 

[Anon]

He's not killing them. A hurricane is. But he has decided to not divert it.

That's like saying, "I didn't kill that pedestrian. My car did. I just decided not to divert it."
By your logic, I'd say God should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

There is proof. YOu just don't see it. You're in a state of blindness which you brought upon yourself.

Then show me the proof. It's that simple.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Ah, so God is killing loved ones in Lousiana, and making scores of others miserable, in order to strengthen their faith. That's real nice of him. Instead of doing that, wouldn't it be easier to just provide some proof of his existence? That's what would strengthen my faith.

God gave us freewill
If we chose to live in a dangerous zone, that is a choice we make. Living in such a place has benefits or we would never do it.
Don't expect god to Bail us out of all our problems. There is such a thing as insurance and weather warnings.there is nothing to stop us moving out for a while.
The Japanese Live with earthquakes, they build their houses to cope with them.
few americans build their houses strong enough to cope with the winds.
these all all freewill choices. Dont expect God to do it for you.

If there were no earthquakes, winds and floods etc the world would be static and without change. nature thrives on change it keeps the world alive.
Don't complain try to make the right choices.

Terry
___________________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[Anon]

Well, the pedestrian shouldn't have walked in front of my car - it's his fault.

You know, many people around the world don't have the luxury of living wherever they want to.

 

[bartdanr]

I admit I am having trouble seeing where you visualization problem lies.
I have not used the word foreknowledge.
God can see the entire Time line. But the time line is not fixed he can change it. To us he may be seen as changing the future to himself he is only editing the time line.
We are totally unable to look into the future, so we seem to be on a path through time events of which we can change through our free will.
God can look at any part of our time line as he is not part of it or subject to it.

God and us have different perceptions.

Terry
_______________________________
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

Hi Terry, thanks for the post.

I think you're saying the same thing that others here are--essentially, that God does not know for certain what s/he will do before s/he does it. This is a limitation on God's omniscience, in order to preserve his/her free will. Whether you use an analogy of a film editor (which sounds like a form of predestination) or speak of foreknowledge, the understanding of God's power, freedom and knowledge is essentially the same.

Am I correct?

Peace.

 

[Aqualung]

Anon: I'll repost this, since obviously you slipped into not reading entire posts, but just the parts you didn't like.

Perhaps one reason is because it can strengthen faith. Perhaps another reason is because if he diverts it, it will, in the long run, create a much more disasterous ecological event. PErhaps it's because we're in the end times, which will be categorized by natural disasters (and wars, and plagues, and other things). Perhaps it's because diversion would do more damage than letting it follow its course. You have no idea what would happen to our wheather if such things like this just stopped happening, or if some hurrican just got diverted.

If you want to debate about me showing you proof, JerryL and I got into a debate in religious debates called "JerryL's debate about prayer, miracles, etc." Go there, because that's a little off topic to the subject at hand, and I will be willing to continure the debate.

 

[Anon]

I read it. I just don't buy it. These are all very unplausible answers.

The all-powerful god who supposedly created the earth in 6 days can't stop a hurricane without triggering some other catestrophic event?

Anybody who thinks that this argument makes any sense has truly lost their ability to think rationally.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Hi Terry, thanks for the post.

I think you're saying the same thing that others here are--essentially, that God does not know for certain what s/he will do before s/he does it. This is a limitation on God's omniscience, in order to preserve his/her free will. Whether you use an analogy of a film editor (which sounds like a form of predestination) or speak of foreknowledge, the understanding of God's power, freedom and knowledge is essentially the same.

Am I correct?

Peace.

You are suggesting that God can not change his mind, That would indeed be limiting his power. We are not privy as to why God does what he does, or what his plan is. He may even at times change his mind because of our prayers. There would be little point in prayer if it was not considered by God.

Terry
______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[bartdanr]

You are suggesting that God can not change his mind, That would indeed be limiting his power. We are not privy as to why God does what he does, or what his plan is. He may even at times change his mind because of our prayers. There would be little point in prayer if it was not considered by God.

Terry
______________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Hi Terry, thanks for your post.

If God has perfect knowledge of what will occur in the future, and that perfect knowledge includes the knowledge of his/her own actions, then God could never "change his/her mind." If s/he did so, then that would mean that his/her foreknowledge was either incomplete or false.

Does that make sense?

Peace

 

[Aqualung]

Hi Terry, thanks for your post.

If God has perfect knowledge of what will occur in the future, and that perfect knowledge includes the knowledge of his/her own actions, then God could never "change his/her mind." If s/he did so, then that would mean that his/her foreknowledge was either incomplete or false.

Does that make sense?

Peace

Well, it makes sense in that I get where you're coming from. It doesn't make sense, because that's just a weird way to think, and I don't really beleive that.

 

[Radar]

Didn't he change his mind from the old testament to the new? He went from just destroying cities, lands and people to sending them to hell for eternity.

 

[Aqualung]

Didn't he change his mind from the old testament to the new? He went from just destroying cities, lands and people to sending them to hell for eternity.

No. He didn't change his mind from the old to the new. He was restoring his mind. The old testament (in my views) and the mosaic law was put into place because the jew of that time weren't very good at following what God wanted them to do. so, he took away the higher law, and gave them the lower mosaic law. Jesus retored the higher law. So, he really changed his mind the other way. He wasn't changning his mind in the new testament, he was just restoring what he had to change.

 

[Radar]

No. He didn't change his mind from the old to the new. He was restoring his mind. The old testament (in my views) and the mosaic law was put into place because the jew of that time weren't very good at following what God wanted them to do. so, he took away the higher law, and gave them the lower mosaic law. Jesus retored the higher law. So, he really changed his mind the other way. He wasn't changning his mind in the new testament, he was just restoring what he had to change.

Sounds like double talk to me... Maybe a little circular logic...

 

[Halcyon]

Hi Terry, thanks for your post.

If God has perfect knowledge of what will occur in the future, and that perfect knowledge includes the knowledge of his/her own actions, then God could never "change his/her mind." If s/he did so, then that would mean that his/her foreknowledge was either incomplete or false.

Does that make sense?

Peace

Has it ever occured to you that an omniscient god would be aware of all possible futures, and wouldn't be limited to a single timeline as we are?

You could say "ah, but god should know which timeline s/he was going to follow." but again you would be thinking linearly. A real god would follow all the timelines, there would be no need for a choice to be made as god would carry out all possibilities.