Does God Have Will?

[SalixIncendium]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

 

[AlexanderG]

Since anyone can define a god (or God) however they wish, this is arguably a meaningless question. Still, we can parse it out a bit.

For our universe to exist how it does, is it necessary that it was caused or created by something with a will? No, I don't see why this would be necessary, nor is there evidence to positively support this.

For humans to exist as they do, with all of our feelings and intuitions and capacity for reason, is it necessary that some external power with a will exist? No, I don't why this would be necessary, nor is there evidence to positively support this.

There are theists who claim a conscious, willful, metaphysical mind is necessary for such things, but I've never seen their arguments get off the ground. It's generally a quagmire of special pleading, arguments from ignorance, and bald unfounded assertions like "It just must be the case that..." or "We know this by the impossibility of the contrary..." or "How else could the universe have been created..."

 

[Wildswanderer]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

How could he create if he had no will to create?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

To me it's flawed thinking/philosophy, often Abrahamic, that starts like this:

"I believe in God. The Bible talks of the Holy Spirit. I worship God. I must be spirit-filled. I have an intuition as to what my future holds. The path I'm going down, intuition-led, is what God wills for me. Without a will from God, I'd be doing some meaningless things like breaking the commandments."

While there is the flaw that morality doesn't necessarily stem from religious beliefs, the people who make these claims, often believe it does.

Or if the people you see making the claims you talked about, don't worship the Abrahamic God.... I'm sorry. As in such a case, I'm not sure.

 

[fantome profane]

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

It seems to me that a “God” without will would be indistinguishable from a natural phenomenon.

Perhaps it would help if you could define what attributes something needs to have to be called “God”.

 

[AlexanderG]

How could he create if he had no will to create?

Your response in another example of the type of fallacy called "Argument from Ignorance."

Maybe a god periodically sheds its skin, and this skin becomes a new world each time. Maybe a god hiccoughed and created a new world, maybe a god is dreaming our world while it sleeps. I can imagine an infinite number of ways a god could accidentally, or unintentionally create a universe, or create a universe while lacking any will. As far as I can tell, all of these ideas are merely imaginary, and do not correspond to reality, until there is evidence indicating one possibility to the exclusion of all the others. So far there is equal evidence, by which I mean no evidence, for any of them. This includes your "god willed it" imaginary idea. No evidence, so very probably imaginary.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How could he create if he had no will to create?

Does the sun have will to shine?

 

[blü 2]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

I think that's a very fair point.

And the answer seems to be that gods have to reflect their congregations or they lose their congregations and cease to be gods, So if the congregation wants God to have eg good intentions towards them, then that will be part of God.

I've wondered in the past whether Trinitarians think the three persons Father, Jesus and Ghost, who are God, each have a separate will, such that they're capable of disagreeing. If they're not capable of disagreeing then there's only one will, only one God, only one person, involved.

So we need a nice clear example where eg Jesus and the Ghost have outvoted the Father (or as the case may be) on something that's genuinely relevant.

Otherwise there aren't three persons, just one.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How could he create if he had no will to create?

My first question is whether there is a creation? What exists (at the moment) is a vast field of energy which we theorize as sub-atomic particles (Leptons, Quarks, Gauge Bosons and Scaler Bosons). Whatever we perceive is made up of them, electrons, neutrons, protons, etc. The latter then make up atoms and molecules. Basically all this is just energy.

To call what we perceive as a created universe is really a fallacy, a mirage, a misunderstanding and ignorance. That is why in many Hindu and Buddhist philosophies it is known as an illusion, 'maya'.

So, with no universe as we perceive it, there is no need for a God or the "Will of God". The real question is from where this energy arose? For that science has no answers at the moment. The only solution is "from nothing". Only that solves the problem of the ultimate origin. If all that we perceive originated "from nothing", then it is equally possible that it can fold up again "into nothing" at some point of time just as easily.

 

[Marcion]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book. Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

God does not exist in our reality, but we exist in His reality as the product of His Cosmic Dream. And since everything God dreams becomes a reality in our universe, that is automatically also His Will.
Our every thought, our every breath, our every move is always included in His Will.

Self-realisation is becoming fully aware that our existence and that of everything around us coincides with His Will and is part of His Cosmic Dream.
The feeling of a relative reality involving our own will is brought about by Maya. Maya has to be overcome.

 

[Aupmanyav]

With "Will of God", God turns into a human being. Then he hardly remains a God. He would love some hate others. Ask them to follow his instructions. He becomes a dictator. He does no good to humans, only sends disasters and diseases. And finally at the end of days, sends most people to eternal Hades. It is far better to abandon such weird ideas.

 

[Vinayaka]

Does the sun have will to shine?

Does the river have will to flow?
Does gravity have will to pull?
Does the fire wilfully make sparks?

Emanation is radically different from creation.

 

[Marcion]

With "Will of God", God turns into a human being. Then he hardly remains a God. He would love some hate others. Ask them to follow his instructions. He becomes a dictator. He does no good to humans, only sends disasters and diseases. And finally at the end of days, sends most people to eternal Hades. It is far better to abandon such weird ideas.

How can something like a mere human being dream up the universe? God needs no brain to think or create, He is beyond comprehension, no need to try.
He who creates cannot hate any of His creations, therefore God also has love for the sinners and even the mega-sinners. All are His children.

That God would interfere in our society when we collectively call out for His help is indeed a mysterious thing. Not everyone will believe it happened.
Why did He not interfere when millions suffered under Communism, Fascism, religious dogma and Capitalism at a time when climate change threatens our very existence? Or did He?

 

[sun rise]

God's whim created the universe containing his will that includes evolution and involution leading back to him.

 

[Wildswanderer]

To call what we perceive as a created universe is really a fallacy, a mirage, a misunderstanding and ignorance. That is why in many Hindu and Buddhist philosophies it is known as an illusion, 'maya'.

Lol, well you are free to believe it's all an illusion if you wish, but we are here, we are solid, and this is all real. Who can really take this idea seriously?

 

[1213]

...
So why assume God, if it existed, has will?

If we are speaking of Bible God, we can know He has will, because it is shown in the Bible. But, obviously you could claim it is not true, but then you would be speaking of some other god than Bible God.

 

[Windwalker]

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

I think it is observation and experience that leads to the view that there is a "Way" to things that when followed leads to life, and when not followed leads to destruction. This is called various things such as the Tao or the Way, the Dharma, the Will of God, etc.

These are all pointing to the same thing. "Those who do the will of my Father are children of God", is saying be in harmony with the Way, follow the Dharma, obey God, etc. It's all about aligning ourselves with "the will of God" in order to be healthy, happy, and part of the system of Nature.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Lol, well you are free to believe it's all an illusion if you wish, but we are here, we are solid, and this is all real. Who can really take this idea seriously?

How much solid?

"If all the space between the particles that make up your atoms (and the spaces between atoms) were removed, i.e., you were compressed so that all the subatomic particles that constitute you (electrons, protons, neutrons) were pressed together, you would fit into a cube 15 micrometers on each edge. 15 micrometers = 0.015 mm." If all the particles in a human body where condensed so that there was no space in between them how small would we get and would we still function? - Quora

That is how much solid you are. And remember even electrons, protons and neutrons are hugely vacuous. We have yet not gone to the limit of elementary particles.

.. but then you would be speaking of some other god than Bible God.

Not necessarily. There are religions which do not require the existence of God. My belief is one of them (Advaita Hinduism).

I think it is observation and experience that leads to the view that there is a "Way" to things that when followed leads to life, and when not followed leads to destruction. This is called various things such as the Tao or the Way, the Dharma, the Will of God, etc.

"Dharma" (Duties) is prior to the concept of Gods. That is why Hindus call it Eternal (Sanātan). It is there even among the animal societies.

 

[PureX]

Since there are a couple of threads floating about about how to go about proving God, I thought this question would be pertinent.

I asked in these threads what the purpose would be in proving or disproving God, to which no one has yet provided a logical answer. One response mentioned Gods will for us.

Why would the existence of God automatically lead to the conclusion that this God has will (or any other human attribute or quality for that matter)?

A good general definition of "God" would be; 'the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is'. And since 'all that is' is clearly organized, and highly complex, it leads one to assume that it has a purpose of some kind (even if we don't know what that purpose is). And since we are a part of that organized and complex 'all that is', we must then have some sort of purpose as well (even if we don't know what it is).

None of this strikes me as particularly unreasonable.

And let's get this one out of the way right now..."Because God created us in His image." There is nothing to substantiate this other than some words written in a book.

Well, this is not exactly true.

I have been a sculptor for many years, and have made lots of art objects in my lifetime. Enough of them, in fact, that taken together, they have come to represent a personal style, and an individual personality. My style, and my personality. And in fact I have learned over the years that this is a fairly inevitable phenomenon. And is true of nearly all artists working in any medium. So I don't think it would be unreasonable for we humans to presume that the same would be the case for the "greatest artist" - the designer/creator of ourselves. Of that which we most commonly refer to as "God".

Besides, if this logic followed, God would have every other human quality such as greed, lust, jealousy, sloth, envy, etc. as well.

Not necessarily. I have made many sculptures out of wood, and although they do tend to represent my unique nature and character, I am not made out of wood.

 

[fantome profane]

Maybe a god periodically sheds its skin, and this skin becomes a new world each time. Maybe a god hiccoughed and created a new world, maybe a god is dreaming our world while it sleeps. I can imagine an infinite number of ways a god could accidentally, or unintentionally create a universe, or create a universe while lacking any will. As far as I can tell, all of these ideas are merely imaginary, and do not correspond to reality, until there is evidence indicating one possibility to the exclusion of all the others. So far there is equal evidence, by which I mean no evidence, for any of them. This includes your "god willed it" imaginary idea. No evidence, so very probably imaginary.

Can you dream if you don’t have will? Can you think of any creature that dreams, but has no will?

And interestingly your other examples, shedding or hiccuping, are unwilling acts, but preformed by creatures with will.

An example of creation by an entity without will might be a volcano creating an island. But is this a “God”, or just natural phenomenon

Does the sun have will to shine?

Is the sun a “God”?