Does God intentionally mislead?

[logician]

It's called freewill. God's not interested in creating robots that have no choice except to do exactly what they were programmed to, he's interested people making their own choice to accept him into their lives. You pointing out that there is so much needless suffering only proves that people choose to do wrong rather than choosing to do right. The only way to get rid of suffering would eliminate free will, which would defeat the whole purpose of creating the universe in the first place, otherwise people will continue to choose evil rather than good.

An omnipotent god is not bound by freewill, or anything else. It can make the decision not to allow needless suffering, but it doesn't, therefore it is NOT benevolent. If your claim is that your god allows freewill, then your god is not a benevolent god, but a NEUTRAL one, where it allows anything to occur. The postulate still holds.

 

[Darkness]

Beelzebub nervously mopped his brow. The sweat trickled down on his forehead. “Well, my Lord, how could God create the universe and say that it was good when there is so much evil in it?”
“Evil is good.”

-- the Revelation of Lucifer the Divine

 

[rheff78]

We're not here to debate the existence of God. Giving us free will is proof of his benevolence.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

We're not here to debate the existence of God. Giving us free will is proof of his benevolence.

 

[logician]

We're not here to debate the existence of God. Giving us free will is proof of his benevolence.

Quite untrue, having free will suggests there is no god, in any case a god that gives free will can only be ascribed to the NEUTRAL position, benevolence or malevolence cannot be derived from it.

 

[rheff78]

Quite untrue, having free will suggests there is no god, in any case a god that gives free will can only be ascribed to the NEUTRAL position, benevolence or malevolence cannot be derived from it.

Ah, but it can. There is no greater gift then the right to live your own life. Only a benevolent God would grant such a gift to his people.

 

[logician]

Ah, but it can. There is no greater gift then the right to live your own life. Only a benevolent God would grant such a gift to his people.

Again, free will is a great indication there is no god. It is not a gift, it is a natural outcome of a chaotic universe.

 

[ChristineES]

There is a book by author Ted Dekker that explained free will in a way I never thought of before. A man had visions that had more than one ending depending on which choices he made. It occurred to me then that it stands to reason God knows the outcomes of everything by our different choices. He would know all the multiple outcomes. (and yes, I know that Blink was just a book and it was just an idea). It changed my dilemma about free will.

 

[Random]

Again, free will is a great indication there is no god.

Your belief that you have Freewill is a great indiction that there is (a God).

It is not a gift, it is a natural outcome of a chaotic universe

You've combined a right with a wrong here in this post. It is true that Entropy creates the illusion of freewill via choice, which is the power to discriminate that everyone has naturally, but this notion only persists so long as a state of continued seperation is enforced between Self and Other (Subject/Object).

However, it is wrong to characterise the Universe only as "chaotic", or that the outcome of this perception could be freewill. Appearances can be decieving, and the fundamental tenant of freewill is the impulse to order, not chaos.

 

[Wandered Off]

Only a benevolent God would grant such a gift to his people.

I think this depends rather heavily on how it's set up. For example, if we can be fooled into decisions that could land us eternally tortured against our will, then free will is more like a holy gag gift. With eternal torture/bliss on the line, having to rely on faith (uncertainty) seems more cruel than benevolent.

I base this assessment on the common fundamentalist Christian interpretation of Hell and having to decide irrevocably on Earth on faith alone. That may well not be your view, and I understand that other scenarios could lead to a different conclusion.

 

[logician]

Your belief that you have Freewill is a great indiction that there is (a God).



You've combined a right with a wrong here in this post. It is true that Entropy creates the illusion of freewill via choice, which is the power to discriminate that everyone has naturally, but this notion only persists so long as a state of continued seperation is enforced between Self and Other (Subject/Object).


However, it is wrong to characterise the Universe only as "chaotic", or that the outcome of this perception could be freewill. Appearances can be decieving, and the fundamental tenant of freewill is the impulse to order, not chaos.

Wait a minute, are you saying we have free will or we don't? Entropy doesn't create anything, it's just a tendency either of matter (or society) towards a more chaotic state.

It is not wrong that a chaotic universe can create free will, it fact, it demands it. Free will has no impulse, to order or chaos, it depends on the person.

 

[Muffled]

OT: There is a story where God sent a lying spirit to the false prophets because he wanted to get rid of an evil king.

NT: Jesus tells the Sadducees that he will be in the grave three nights putting the resurrection of Monday morning, then tells his disciples that he will be raised in three days putting the resurrection on Sunday morning. If the Sadducees came looking to kill the resurrected Jesus on Monday they were a day too late.

 

[gnostic]

God telling Adam that he would die if ate the fruit. He lived to be 930.

And the Lord God commanded man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat, but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you will die."

Die, he didn't, but god did lay an awful curse upon them.

 

[Random]

Wait a minute, are you saying we have free will or we don't?

So long as you belief you have freewill (that is, base your actions on choice-discrimination), you effectively force a compatibalist state.

Entropy doesn't create anything, it's just a tendency either of matter (or society) towards a more chaotic state.

Which is you restating what I said, "...However, it is wrong to characterise the Universe only as "chaotic", or that the outcome of this perception could be freewill."

It is not wrong that a chaotic universe can create free will, it fact, it demands it. Free will has no impulse, to order or chaos, it depends on the person.

The impulse to discriminate is the cornerstone of choice. The impulse manifest in every human being, without exception.

The impulse IS to order. Selection demands it.

 

[Vor]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAA, ask G-d, I'm sure He will reveal the mystery of how he conducts his affairs

 

[Vor]

G-d created everything, good and evil, if you want to be angry at H-m that's your choice. All I see from you is one liners from bible verses picked apart to attack something you hate.