Hey. I'm a 17 year old agnostic. Lately I've been thinking a lot about God and the afterlife, because I recently found out my newlywed brother and his wife are athiest- a secret they have kept from the rest of the family for a while.
I hope you can imagine how incredibly sad that statement makes me feel. To think that people feel a need to hide their disbelief is well, shocking.
What bothers me the most about our religious talks is that the Christian kids often state that nonbelievers are automatically sent to Hell.
You have to keep in mind that they do not actually KNOW what they are talking about. Pity they don't understand that.
I do not mind the Christian religion at all, but this one idea really turns me off of it. And it seems like often I am treated as inferior by some Christians because I do not attend Church. Because of this, I rarely discuss and express my own spiritual beliefs with many of my friends, family, and especially my girlfriend's family, for fear of judgment. It seems like online in the forums is the only place I get express my spiritual ideas.
Well I feel for you and certainly welcome your ideas. Let's put it this way, your ideas cannot be crazier than those solicited by the various religions of man. So, have at her.
Say that the Bible instead said that people would be saved based on their actions and not their faith. How many people do you think would go to Church?
In theory, very few, since they would be far to busy to attend. I don't see how that could be a "bad" thing really.
In addition, if the number of people going to Church dropped, would the crime rate go up? In my opinion, yes.
I don't see why it would, especially if they are all busy doing "good work". In my opinion, no.
People go to Church, because it says to in the Bible. The people believe what the pastors tell them, which is to live a moral life, as depicted in the Bible. People, fearing the wrath of God, live moral lives.
Is that a fact or simply an observation of an appearance? I would suggest that religious type are no more moral than the atheist quietly sitting beside them, except perhaps, in their own minds.
It's a chain of events leading back to the classic "faith alone can save you." Without that passage, we all know that a good deal less people would go to Church. Less people would be God fearing. And therefore, more people would commit sin without considering the consequences.
Providing of course that sin actually exists. I would suggest that so-called "sin" is merely a skewed sense of arbitrary value judgments that the herd has agreed to as being so. That doesn't actually make it so.
Is it so hard to believe, therefore, that God would lie to us? That he would mislead us? Not to be malicious, but to instill a more stable religious base inside our community, therefore leading our race to a more prosperous future? After all, we are his greatest project, and if he is a loving God, he wants us to succeed.
It is a pretty idea, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. The religions of man do at least as much harm as good, so to my thinking, the whole notion is moot.
And while some people believe that God would not lie to us, because God is a perfect being who does not commit sin, I remind that "sin" is a relative word that we can only judge based on our earthly experiences and the Bible.
Given that my earthly experience, this time around is a scant 34 years longer than your own I am compelled to say I have never, ever, seen any evidence of what some call "sin". I'm not inclined to say that it is even a helpful concept. Why is it that people feel they need a book to tell them how to live or to be a good person? I didn't come with an owner's manual, did you? I don't quite grasp why others feel their quaint little books are just that. To me, they are fairy tales designed for "spiritual children".
If God exists, he is on an astronomical plane of existence, where demons, angels, and where the balance of the Universe is constantly being tested. So do you think that God misleading us so that we may lead more moral lives is such a far fetched idea?
It is actually a fairly pathetic idea, imho. Heaven forbid people just do as they desire and revel in their creaturehood without being especially concerned what amounts to basically their "invisible friend" has to say about it. If he did his job right, then theoretically we should be doing just fine and dandy. I wonder why that is so hard to conceive?
Do you think that, cosmically speaking, it could even be considered a sin?
The time of sin is nearing an end. Try thinking outside the pine box of such limited constructs. They are not an especially helpful lens through which to view personal reality.
After all, God has been responsible for the deaths of millions, even in the Bible with Noah's Ark, God has been linked to death. Yet in the commandments, it says "Thou shalt not kill." This proves that if God exists, that he is such a superior being that he does not have to bend to the laws he has presented to govern us.
Um... it proves that the writers of the religious fairy tales didn't really think things through very well. I doubt that "god" is impressed with what we think about him/her/it. Talk about an image problem, lol.
Certainly there are degrees of sin.
Lying to someone is not as bad as killing them.
Cursing is not as bad as cheating.
Sin is not a helpful concept. Just ignore it and try to think realisitically without attaching illusory morality rules to the mix.
Therefore, if God is a logical being, then do you really think he would consider letting a reformed rapist/murderer into Heaven just because that rapist/murderer started reading the Bible and reformed? Yet, he would condemn a moral man, or even a MORE than moral man, straight to Hell because that man wasn't swayed by the Christian religion? Is murder less of a sin than ignorance?
How about those people born in parts of the world outside the reach of Christianity? There are tribes in Africa and South America who only tell legends and ghost stories about the white man's existence. What about when they die? Straight to Hell for being born in Africa?
LOL. Yes, it is somewhat illogical, to say the least. Fortunately "god" isn't into all this kind of drivel.
In my opinion, sending someone to Hell for not worshiping you is not the mark of a perfect God, its the mark of an egotistical deity who does not love each and every person the same. Following the same line of thought, does that mean he only loves those that worship him? And if he is all knowing, surely he would be able to predict who would worship him and who would refrain. So why was I even sent here in the first place if that is the case?
I have often conjectured the wisdom of the act of worship. If I were "god" I would very quickly tire of people telling me how great I was and the endless prayers asking me to fix the crap of their own creation. How about you? Do you think worship is even desired by any being worthy of being called "god"? To my jaundiced view, "god" doesn't want slaves or servants, that psychological energy gestalt simply wants friends to play with. There is not a lot of point in being "god" if one is all alone is there?
Do you really, in your heart, believe that that God is so egotistical that only by being prepared to submit yourself to him through a life of worship, can you be saved? Are the cards really that stacked against humanity?
Not in the slightest, but there are many who would say so. When people ask if I am saved, over the years I have quipped, "From what? For what?" I am not in need of saving and I don't quite understand why others feel that they (and I) need to be. It's a pretty sad, limited, outlook to hold. It must be very frurstrating.
When will Hell run out of room?
Beats me. I have been told I am going to Hell/the Hellfire, by Muslims and Christians alike. Heck one person here on RF said a few weeks ago that I was Satan. While flattered, I am unsure what narrow thinking would prompt a person to make such a meaningless comment. Honestly... I don't want to know.
Take it easy, baby. It sounds like you are doing just fine.
