Does God Make Mistakes?

[MikeF]

I'm assuming that there never was a global flood, since it would be impossible given the earth's water content and distribution. So why make up such a story or include it in canon? I could only come up with one answer, and found it a compelling one. What would we expect to happen following such a discovery in the ancient world?

I would say that at the time the flood account was authored, there was not a concept of a global world. I would imagine the world at that time was a much smaller place.

As to why the author would choose a flood scenario, I would suggest that flooding would be a large scale disaster that the author and the author's community would be familiar with. If the author wanted to imagine a world-ending event initiated by the gods, poetic license would permit the author to simply scale up such a familiar event.

If the author lived in an active volcanic region, or one with seasonal hurricanes or frequent earthquakes perhaps one of those would be used by the author as the mechanism for world destruction by the gods.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe I have a different vision of God than you, although I admit I don’t know what yours is. I don’t think of God as a personage, so I don’t think in terms of likes or dislikes.

In the autumn, leaves grow separation rings, lose their luster, and fall to the ground to be replaced in the spring. This process seems perfect. Maybe not from the standpoint of the leaf though.

So then, whatever God does is perfect because that is how you choose to view it.

I suppose that'd work for me/anybody. I don't make mistakes because I choose to see my actions as perfect.
Making mistakes is all about personal judgement.

 

[Baroodi]

most floods are product of man unwise behavior

 

[MikeF]

most floods are product of man unwise behavior

What about the floods that occurred before there was human habitation? How are those the cause of human beings?

Or are you saying that rising water from heavy rains is only classified as being a flood if it affects human beings.

 

[WalterTrull]

Making mistakes is all about personal judgement

 

[DNB]

If not, what was the flood about?

An example for the future generations. i.e. if God did not spare 99% of humans due His indignation with their depravity, rest assured that, unless we learn to be obedient and reverent, we too will suffer the same fate as them. The forbidden fruit and Adam's transgression, Christ's passion and Peter's denial, The Israelites in the desert, all were set as examples and warnings to us - not experiments on God's part. In other words, Adam & Eve prior to the fall, probably would've sworn that they'd never disobey God, as much as all the Apostles vowed that they never deny Christ - the lesson was for them, not for God. We all think that we're pretty stable and that we have a sufficient amount of integrity to not consider ourselves corrupt,...until temptation comes our way.
God is showing us, not Himself, that first, we are corrupt, and then, in need of salvation.

The great deluge was a warning, not the result of an oversight on God's part.

 

[1213]

God removing the flaws in God's creation.

God removing evil people is not the same as removing flaws. God created people to have freedom. Freedom is not a flaw, even if people choose evil.

 

[joelr]

Nakosis good to meet you..
God does NOT make mistakes... God is perfect if he made mistakes, he would NOT be God!

The flood removed men who rejected God!

It comes down to "Free Will"!

Think... God is Love! To love someone, you cannot force them to love you! Nakosis "if you do not love me, I will punch you in the mouth"! Would you love me with a threat as this?! NO!
God could make us love but then our love would NOT be true love! God made man in his image "God is Love". Man can love or with "Free Will" man can chose NOT to love!!

It is a CHOICE! Adam the first PERFECT man made a free will choice... He chose NOT to love, not loving God he disobeyed God! Adam brought corruption and sin into God' PERFECT creation by his free will! God does all things perfectly... He created Adam perfect, if he did not create Adam perfect, he would not be God! The Perfect man chose not to love! Dogs, pigs, chickens' snails, ants etc. cannot love they do not have free will! ONLY.....

Nakosis only man is made in the image of LOVE; God is love! The earth was full of men who did not love thus the flood next time God will destroy earth with "Fire"! Satan had his wings clipped; Jesus tells us he saw Satan fall from the sky... Satan is stuck on this earth "FOREVER"! All who choose NOT to love are Children of Satan they also will be stuck on a burnt out crisp of a planet FOREVER! When Jesus comes just before the FIRE all of God' children will be caught >>UP<< away from the earth>>Caught UP<< into the kingdom of heaven!

The OT God is not love. Love does not flood the world it forgives and shows people a better way. It does not send a plague sent by Satan (twice) to kill 70,000 people, one for a census.

After appearing to Abraham God is also mulling over if he should tell Abraham what he is about to do. Not a perfect God. In the OT Yahweh is the same as older Greek gods. Anthropormorphic, dynamic, colorful, emotional, vivid, changeable, masculine, real body parts.

Your first example about not forcing someone to love you is EXACTLY WHAT YAHWEH DID? Instead of punching people in the mouth he banished them and killed them? Also if he made Adam perfect than the choice he made was perfect and correct. Otherwise he didn't make Adam perfect. How would eating a forbidden fruit equate with not love? The apologetics you learn teach you some weird ideas about love? Can you disobey someone you love? Yes you can. Should you kill people who don't love you? No you should not unless you are a psychopath murderer.

The 2nd coming is a re-working of a Persian myth where God and the devil have an epic battle and all followers get resurrected into new bodies and live forever on Earth.

 

[soulsurvivor]

In addition to excessive rainfall in places where the water can't run away quickly enough, hurricanes caused by heat build up in the sea and the rotation of the earth, and other perfectly natural causes?.

Of course, everything happens according to laws of physics, thermodynamics etc - nobody is claiming any miracles. If you don't believe in God or Karma, no other explanation is needed. However, in case you do believe in God, I was just trying to point out that any natural calamity does not occur because of a deliberate act of will by the Gods. If you are interested in learning about Karma, you may want to read this: Individual Karma and Group Karma

Of course dinosaurs were around for about 170,000,000 years. Seems to me like a pretty successful mistake.

By your definition of success, the mosquito is even more successful - they have been around more than 220 million years. Some species of bacteria probably even more so.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If not, what was the flood about?

Could ones lost in the Flood turn to God for salvation?

Are you unaware the Flood, biblically speaking, is a warning to come to God today for salvation?

 

[Nakosis]

Could ones lost in the Flood turn to God for salvation?

Are you unaware the Flood, biblically speaking, is a warning to come to God today for salvation?

So I'll assume that you believe in free will and it's the free will of man that isolates God from any responsibility of what happens in the universe God created?

 

[Alien826]

By your definition of success, the mosquito is even more successful - they have been around more than 220 million years. Some species of bacteria probably even more so.

We were talking about "mistakes". My point was that dinosaurs were successful in terms of survival on Earth for a long long time. That is just about the criterion of "success" in the evolutionary world, btw, and does apply to mosquitos. Looking at humans though, our high (relative to other species) intelligence gave us an enormous advantage and here we are pretty much running the show. But was it a mistake? It looks as if it might have been, as we are in the process of destroying the environment that produced us. In short our intelligence has allowed us to override the factors that tend to limit our population and use of natural resources. I'd call that a mistake from the viewpoint of evolution. Of course it's not conscious, so the term "mistake" is used loosely.

How that fits with Karma I'll leave to you. I read your link, interesting, thanks.

 

[soulsurvivor]

We were talking about "mistakes". My point was that dinosaurs were successful in terms of survival on Earth for a long long time. That is just about the criterion of "success" in the evolutionary world, btw, and does apply to mosquitos. Looking at humans though, our high (relative to other species) intelligence gave us an enormous advantage and here we are pretty much running the show. But was it a mistake? It looks as if it might have been, as we are in the process of destroying the environment that produced us. In short our intelligence has allowed us to override the factors that tend to limit our population and use of natural resources. I'd call that a mistake from the viewpoint of evolution. Of course it's not conscious, so the term "mistake" is used loosely.

How that fits with Karma I'll leave to you. I read your link, interesting, thanks.

'Mistake' in the sense that dinosaurs did not evolve into an intelligent species. They survived for a long time quite well, but if the goal of evolution is to create more and more intelligent or capable species, dinosaurs were a dead-end. If they had not become extinct, I don't think they would have become any more intelligent today. In fact, they were such excellent killing machines, that they may have prevented the emergence of smaller more intelligent mammals (and eventually humans).

 

[Dogknox20]

So, collateral damage?

Back a ways in this conversation you quoted this.



The suggestion being that everyone apart from Noah was evil and deserved to be wiped out. I simply suggested that this didn't apply to babies and animals. In any case you still have God destroying innocents. I'd agree that in wartime some non-combatants get killed, but we're human. I don't see why God couldn't have saved the children in some way. He is supposed to be omnipotent after all.



Yes I understand that people take children and animals with them when they travel.

Alien826 I hope all is well...
God is perfect he destroyed all by the flood!
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

FACT: You do not read, the human race except the offspring!
Your argument is with God I am sure you will win!>> NOT << Are you going to say the babies will grow up and NOT have a heart that was only evil all the time.

 

[Dogknox20]

The OT God is not love. Love does not flood the world it forgives and shows people a better way. It does not send a plague sent by Satan (twice) to kill 70,000 people, one for a census.

After appearing to Abraham God is also mulling over if he should tell Abraham what he is about to do. Not a perfect God. In the OT Yahweh is the same as older Greek gods. Anthropormorphic, dynamic, colorful, emotional, vivid, changeable, masculine, real body parts.

Your first example about not forcing someone to love you is EXACTLY WHAT YAHWEH DID? Instead of punching people in the mouth he banished them and killed them? Also if he made Adam perfect than the choice he made was perfect and correct. Otherwise he didn't make Adam perfect. How would eating a forbidden fruit equate with not love? The apologetics you learn teach you some weird ideas about love? Can you disobey someone you love? Yes you can. Should you kill people who don't love you? No you should not unless you are a psychopath murderer.

The 2nd coming is a re-working of a Persian myth where God and the devil have an epic battle and all followers get resurrected into new bodies and live forever on Earth.

Love is putting the other first!
God IS Love!
Jesus loved the world so much he gave himself completely to us from the cross! The Cross is a symbol of Love! A man without love is God-Less!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Alien826 I hope all is well...
God is perfect he destroyed all by the flood!
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

How can babies be wicked? How can babies have evil thoughts?

Please don't just preach at me with Bible verses. Try your own words please.

FACT: You do not read, the human race except the offspring!
Your argument is with God I am sure you will win!>> NOT << Are you going to say the babies will grow up and NOT have a heart that was only evil all the time.

I will say that babies will not grow up and have a heart "that was only evil all of the time." Where'd you come up with that?

 

[BilliardsBall]

So I'll assume that you believe in free will and it's the free will of man that isolates God from any responsibility of what happens in the universe God created?

No, God has responsbility. He has a stronger free will.

I don't let children play in the street. My free will superintends theirs.

God took responsibility for creation and sin and killed Jesus, then rose Him from the dead. Biblically speaking, anyone trusting Jesus has eternal life and their sin is forgiven.

 

[Alien826]

'Mistake' in the sense that dinosaurs did not evolve into an intelligent species. They survived for a long time quite well, but if the goal of evolution is to create more and more intelligent or capable species, dinosaurs were a dead-end. If they had not become extinct, I don't think they would have become any more intelligent today. In fact, they were such excellent killing machines, that they may have prevented the emergence of smaller more intelligent mammals (and eventually humans).

Ah, I see. You are saying that the ultimate aim of all evolution is to develop intelligence. Assuming that, I suppose you are right. BUT remember, that idea comes from a creature (you) that IS a member of the most intelligent species so far developed on Earth. In other words, you are saying "the best possible being is ME".

While I see how that happens, it only works from our own particular viewpoint. And as I pointed out intelligence itself may be a dead end, with intelligent species getting so good at killing each other that they only reach a certain level before destroying themselves.There is a theory (idea?) that the reason we haven't discovered intelligent extra terrestrial life is just that. No comment on that, much too little evidence. Dinosaurs didn't destroy themselves, it took a whacking big asteroid to do it, and even then they continued in the form of birds (if the current science is to be believed).

I don't think we will settle this, and it doesn't matter. Sometimes it's good to look at a different viewpoint.

 

[Alien826]

Alien826 I hope all is well...
God is perfect he destroyed all by the flood!
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

FACT: You do not read, the human race except the offspring!
Your argument is with God I am sure you will win!>> NOT << Are you going to say the babies will grow up and NOT have a heart that was only evil all the time.

Yes, I'm OK.

Actually I'm not arguing with God, I don't have enough knowledge of any such being to do so. What I'm arguing with is the idea that destroying the whole human race, innocent and guilty alike, is the hallmark of a benevolent supreme being. And it is not, by any human standards of benevolence. And if you are going to argue that God's morality as practiced by him is different from the morality he wants us to follow, then I give up. It makes God a liar for a start.

No doubt the babies, in that society, would have at least tended to evil. But all of them? We know of one that didn't, Noah himself!

I'll diverge and say the difficulty you are having supporting your viewpoint stems from your rigid adherence to the inerrancy of the scriptures. It goes like this. It's bad to wipe out an entire species when other measures still remain. But it says in the Bible that God did just that! God doesn't make mistakes and is totally good, hmmm. Better find a way to explain it while maintaining the goodness of God. And we get lots of tortured explanations. How about considering that the scriptures might just be wrong? No so difficult. And frankly, there's no need for the entire Bible to be literally true for it to have great value.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Ah, I see. You are saying that the ultimate aim of all evolution is to develop intelligence. Assuming that, I suppose you are right. BUT remember, that idea comes from a creature (you) that IS a member of the most intelligent species so far developed on Earth. In other words, you are saying "the best possible being is ME". ...

Yes, I do believe the ultimate aim of evolution is to develop a better species each time - intelligence is important, but I think spirituality is even more important. A truly spiritual species will not indulge in much killing. I don't believe 'I' am the best possible being. I am sure there are far superior beings on other planets. You may want to read this webpage: The Great UFO Coverup Conspiracy