Does god want everyone to be saved?

[QuestioningMind]

They were told ' do not eat ' was ' right '. They were told 'eat ' was 'wrong'.
The stipulation ' do not eat or you will die ' showed that nothing was concealed or hidden from them.
They knew there was only one limitation on one tree. That tree stool for the law of the land of Eden.
So, when the serpent contradicted and said that they would Not die, to me that would show a contradiction.
Even a child could come and say that Johnny said '_____' is Not good to eat, but Jimmy says it is fine to eat that.
Hey Dad, who is right Johnny or Jimmy, or in the case of A&E ask their Father, "Who is right You or the Serpent?"
After all, Adam and Eve had to realize all the good that God did for them lacking for nothing, so there is No reason to think they would be afraid to ask their Father a question before making a decision.
Just because the Serpent put a thought in Eve's mind did Not mean that thought had to build a nest in her mind.
Eve could have kicked out that thought, or Eve could have gone to Adam for his input, or said to Adam let's ask Father about this situation .........

And any truly loving father would have specifically warned his children about the evil and deceptive Satan that the parent knew would come to try and deceive Eve. I keep agreeing that the children should assume part of the blame, while you keep ignoring the responsibility any truly loving parent has to properly prepare their children for the evils that lurk in the world.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And any truly loving father would have specifically warned his children about the evil and deceptive Satan that the parent knew would come to try and deceive Eve. I keep agreeing that the children should assume part of the blame, while you keep ignoring the responsibility any truly loving parent has to properly prepare their children for the evils that lurk in the world.

I think there would be No evil lurking in our world if Satan had Not rebelled. There was No evil before Satan.
To me, Satan was Not created as a Satan or Devil, Satan later made himself into a devil and a satan by being drawn out by his very own wrong desires to have humans worship him - James 1:13-15
Satan started out as a good angel according to Ezekiel 28:14-15 who was perfect ' until ' lawlessness was found in him.
Satan was perfect until the start or the beginning of his choosing to do wrong.

A&E were already responsibly warned (properly warned) that ' eating ' was 'wrong', and ' Not eating ' was 'right'.
( the right part was the truthful part. The wrong part was the un-truthful part )
They, like us, have the ' freedom to act responsibly ' toward their Father.
They were properly prepared to the point that if they heard otherwise, they could see a difference in what is said.
Adam did Not have to listen to Eve. Adam could have chosen to side with their Father.

Jesus and Satan had the same heavenly Father: One good Son, one bad son.
Cain and Abel had the same father: One good son, one bad son.
Jacob and Esau had the same father: One good son, one bad son.
So, just having a truly loving parent does Not necessarily mean all will be loving children because we are all free moral agents choosing for oneself.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I think there would be No evil lurking in our world if Satan had Not rebelled. There was No evil before Satan.
To me, Satan was Not created as a Satan or Devil, Satan later made himself into a devil and a satan by being drawn out by his very own wrong desires to have humans worship him - James 1:13-15
Satan started out as a good angel according to Ezekiel 28:14-15 who was perfect ' until ' lawlessness was found in him.
Satan was perfect until the start or the beginning of his choosing to do wrong.

A&E were already responsibly warned (properly warned) that ' eating ' was 'wrong', and ' Not eating ' was 'right'.
( the right part was the truthful part. The wrong part was the un-truthful part )
They, like us, have the ' freedom to act responsibly ' toward their Father.
They were properly prepared to the point that if they heard otherwise, they could see a difference in what is said.
Adam did Not have to listen to Eve. Adam could have chosen to side with their Father.

Jesus and Satan had the same heavenly Father: One good Son, one bad son.
Cain and Abel had the same father: One good son, one bad son.
Jacob and Esau had the same father: One good son, one bad son.
So, just having a truly loving parent does Not necessarily mean all will be loving children because we are all free moral agents choosing for oneself.

But Satan was created by an all-powerful all-knowing God that exists outside of space and time, a God that would know even prior to creating Satan that Satan would choose to do wrong. You act as if this all-powerful all-knowing God that exist outside of space and time was somehow 'surprised' by Satan's choice, as if a creator being that exist outside of space and time could possibly be surprised by anything.

If I were a parent that existed outside of space and time and had children, one that I knew would choose to be evil and would do everything in his power to try and corrupt my other children, I'd make absolutely certain that I NEVER left the evil child alone in the same room with my other children. If for some reason I was incapable of keeping them apart (even though I'm also all-powerful), then I would at least sit my other children down and specifically warn them about the dangers of my evil child and explain how the evil child will try to trick and deceive them. To do otherwise would be negligent on my part.

 

[Clear]

Hi QuestioningMind;

I like the fact that you are nuancing the connection between knowledge/understanding of good and evil and transgression. That is, God cannot justly punish anyone if he does not give them sufficient knowledge and understanding of the rules for which mankind is to be punished.


The questions regarding why God placed Adam and Eve in close proximity to knowledge of Good and Evil as well as the mechanism by which he knew they would partake of that knowledge (i.e. Lucifer) have been asked before. Early Christian texts describe this point.

The Prophet “Sedrach said to him [God]. “It was by your will that Adam was deceived, my master. You commanded your angels to worship Adam, but he who was first among the angels disobeyed your order and did not worship him: and so you banished him because he transgressed your commandment and did not come forth (to worship) the creation of your hands. If you loved man, why did you not kill the devil, the artificer of all iniquity? Who can fight against an invisible spirit? He enters the hearts of men like a smoke and teaches them all kinds of sin. He even fights against you, the immortal God, and so what can pitiful man do against him..... The Apocalypse of Sedrach 5:1-7

Thus, the prophet Sedrach, early in his mortal experience before he was given more knowledge, points out the obvious fact that an omniscient God did, in fact, know that Adam and Eve were going to partake of knowledge of Good and Evil before he put them in the garden. Sedrach also asked, in essence, why God banished Lucifer to the Garden to cause Man to Fall. “Why did you not kill the devil”? he asked. Sedrach also seems to agree with your assessment that man was not sufficiently able to “fight against an invisible spirit” (lucifer)…etc.

Abraham also, early in his career, before he understood more of the Fathers plan, asked a similar question about Satan. Abraham asked God : “Eternal and Might One, Let your servant speak before you and let your fury not rage against your chosen one. Behold, before you led me up, Azazel insulted me. How then, since he is now not before you, did you establish yourself with (him)? (BCK) The Apocalypse of Abraham 20:5-7

Early Judeo Christianity answers the difficult questions differently than the more modern Christian movements with their interpretations of the Gospel. I like the fact that you see the important nuances and connection between differing levels of understanding and the resulting differing levels of culpability.

Good luck in your journey

Clear
ειτωτωφυω

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But Satan was created by an all-powerful all-knowing God that exists outside of space and time, a God that would know even prior to creating Satan that Satan would choose to do wrong. You act as if this all-powerful all-knowing God that exist outside of space and time was somehow 'surprised' by Satan's choice, as if a creator being that exist outside of space and time could possibly be surprised by anything.
If I were a parent that existed outside of space and time and had children, one that I knew would choose to be evil and would do everything in his power to try and corrupt my other children, I'd make absolutely certain that I NEVER left the evil child alone in the same room with my other children. If for some reason I was incapable of keeping them apart (even though I'm also all-powerful), then I would at least sit my other children down and specifically warn them about the dangers of my evil child and explain how the evil child will try to trick and deceive them. To do otherwise would be negligent on my part.

I can agree that if it were Not for the gift of granting creation free-will choices that God would know in advance.
Because of free-will choices then God chooses Not to know in advance.
Satan doing wrong would Not mean all of angelic creation would do wrong.
To me, if only Adam 'or' only Eve sinned but Not both of them, then we would Not have the " 'It's going around' sin disease ". ( We have Adam&Eve sin, Not sin from God that is going around)

God's warning about ' death ' at Genesis 2:17 was showing the danger. Eat = Death.
Satan in chapter 3 contradicted the warning God gave by saying Eve would Not die if she ate.
Before that point Satan was a righteous angel, so there would be No need for God to warn about Satan.
My view is: Satan did Not start out as an evil son, just as Adam did Not start out an evil adult.
They were drawn out by their own desire, Not God's desire - James 1:13-15

A&E did Not need lessons on tricking because all they had to do was obey and avoid one tree.
By Not telling Satan to go away, and tell their Father what Satan did, then A&E chose Satan's side.
Satan's rebellion challenge is: would any of us only choose God because of what He gives us.
Satan challenges all of us that under adverse conditions we would Not serve God.
God was Not negligent because right away at Genesis 3:15 God promised there would be an offspring, a seed, who would come to our rescue (deliverance/salvation). Not a seed (pill) that is take two pills and call in the a.m.,
but the promise of ' better times coming ' through Jesus as that 'promised seed' or Messiah.
When righteous mankind was in jeopardy in Noah's day. Noah warned people but the people themselves chose Not to listen. So, as it was in the days of Noah, according to Jesus at Matthew 24:37, then as God acted to rescue ( deliver/save) the righteous ones, we will see the righteous, Not neglected, but protected through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-governmental rulership over Earth begins. Then, after Satan's destruction there will be No one ever again on Earth who would try to trick or deceive anyone.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I can agree that if it were Not for the gift of granting creation free-will choices that God would know in advance.
Because of free-will choices then God chooses Not to know in advance.
Satan doing wrong would Not mean all of angelic creation would do wrong.
To me, if only Adam 'or' only Eve sinned but Not both of them, then we would Not have the " 'It's going around' sin disease ". ( We have Adam&Eve sin, Not sin from God that is going around)

God's warning about ' death ' at Genesis 2:17 was showing the danger. Eat = Death.
Satan in chapter 3 contradicted the warning God gave by saying Eve would Not die if she ate.
Before that point Satan was a righteous angel, so there would be No need for God to warn about Satan.
My view is: Satan did Not start out as an evil son, just as Adam did Not start out an evil adult.
They were drawn out by their own desire, Not God's desire - James 1:13-15

A&E did Not need lessons on tricking because all they had to do was obey and avoid one tree.
By Not telling Satan to go away, and tell their Father what Satan did, then A&E chose Satan's side.
Satan's rebellion challenge is: would any of us only choose God because of what He gives us.
Satan challenges all of us that under adverse conditions we would Not serve God.
God was Not negligent because right away at Genesis 3:15 God promised there would be an offspring, a seed, who would come to our rescue (deliverance/salvation). Not a seed (pill) that is take two pills and call in the a.m.,
but the promise of ' better times coming ' through Jesus as that 'promised seed' or Messiah.
When righteous mankind was in jeopardy in Noah's day. Noah warned people but the people themselves chose Not to listen. So, as it was in the days of Noah, according to Jesus at Matthew 24:37, then as God acted to rescue ( deliver/save) the righteous ones, we will see the righteous, Not neglected, but protected through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-governmental rulership over Earth begins. Then, after Satan's destruction there will be No one ever again on Earth who would try to trick or deceive anyone.

Because of free-will choices then God chooses Not to know in advance.

Why, and what are you basing this conclusion on? What in the bible tells you that God chose 'not to know' in advance? Are you making this claim simply because it makes no sense whatsoever that if God DID know in advance that he would have ever allowed Satan near A&E?

A&E did Not need lessons on tricking because all they had to do was obey and avoid one tree.

Yet the very fact that Eve WAS tricked suggests that they DID need some lessons on not getting deceived. If fact, the very fact that the bible indicates she was 'tricked' and 'deceived' by the talking snake/Satan suggests that she didn't WILLFULLY disobey God, but rather she was TRICKED into disobeying God. If I'm told that something is wrong, but someone deceives me into believing that it's actually okay, I wouldn't be WILLFULLY doing something wrong, because I'd been tricked into thinking it WASN'T wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because of free-will choices then God chooses Not to know in advance.
Why, and what are you basing this conclusion on? What in the bible tells you that God chose 'not to know' in advance? Are you making this claim simply because it makes no sense whatsoever that if God DID know in advance that he would have ever allowed Satan near A&E?
A&E did Not need lessons on tricking because all they had to do was obey and avoid one tree.
Yet the very fact that Eve WAS tricked suggests that they DID need some lessons on not getting deceived. If fact, the very fact that the bible indicates she was 'tricked' and 'deceived' by the talking snake/Satan suggests that she didn't WILLFULLY disobey God, but rather she was TRICKED into disobeying God. If I'm told that something is wrong, but someone deceives me into believing that it's actually okay, I wouldn't be WILLFULLY doing something wrong, because I'd been tricked into thinking it WASN'T wrong.

To me the point is: 'Adam' was Not deceived or tricked. Adam's sin was: deliberate, on purpose, willfully.
So, the inherited sin disease we have comes from father Adam, and Not mother Eve. - Romans 5:12

Base a conclusion on James 1:13-15 that says each of us are drawn out by our own desire. Not someone else's.
Satan originally was a righteous angel, so there was No reason at that time to think otherwise.
Satan chose his own wrong desire to want to have humans listen to his own ideas over what God said.