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Does Hinduism denote Vedic Religion or Religion of Veda/s?

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
Two kind of people living together. Vedics tried to propagate their religion. They did not succeed. Later each group made adjustments, indigenous accepted Sanskrit and gave a honored place to Vedas, Aryans by accepted Hindu Gods and Goddesses. And they have lived happily thereafter. No breaking of idols, no killing or raping, no looting, no division of 'maale-e-ghanimat'. Seems strange to you, no?
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Not exactly:

"Aryan tribes spread out across the Indus Valley region. They warred against local, non-Aryan people, and they settled in areas that provided them with pasture for their animals. They grouped in villages and built homes of bamboo or light wood – homes without statues or art. They began growing crops. Their environment supplied them with all they needed, but, responding to their traditions and perhaps impulses, tribes warred against each other – wars that might begin with the stealing of cattle. The word for obtaining cattle, gosati, became synonymous with making war. And their warring grew in scale, including a war between what was said to be ten kings."
Aryans Invade, Conquer and Make War in the Indus Valley
Regards
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
I didn't say it is a history book.
This is not a history forum, please.
Regards
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So it is a fake history book then? One that makes false claims with no backing. I think people should read at least 100 books and articles combined before making any comment at all about AIT, IVC, or such. Have you?
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It is not even a fake history book, it is just a filler to show that they are very knowledgeable. Written by some one who does not know 'kakh' (Punjabi, the first two consonants ka and kha - kakh vi janta nahin hega) about the subject.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Vinayaka said:
So it is a fake history book then? One that makes false claims with no backing. I think people should read at least 100 books and articles combined before making any comment at all about AIT, IVC, or such. Have you?
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Aupmanyav said:
It is not even a fake history book, it is just a filler to show that they are very knowledgeable. Written by some one who does not know 'kakh' (Punjabi, the first two consonants ka and kha - kakh vi janta nahin hega) about the subject.
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I did not say it is a history book.
It is not a history forum.
Regards
 
Kirran

Kirran

ॐ
Premium Member
NB - Some Hindus might use words other than dharma to denote the same idea, while no Buddhist or Sikh in their right mind would call themselves an adharmic Buddhist/Sikh. And most religions refer to the same ideas by other names too, so I don't think Hinduism can really be defined by whether they are adherents of dharma.

Honestly, I think we're just subconsciously pandering to colonialist paradigms when we try and find some common belief or doctrine which defines Hinduism. Hindu is a group identity associated with sets of religious practices and traditions, and isn't bound by some doctrine or creed.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Kirran said:
NB - Some Hindus might use words other than dharma to denote the same idea, while no Buddhist or Sikh in their right mind would call themselves an adharmic Buddhist/Sikh. And most religions refer to the same ideas by other names too, so I don't think Hinduism can really be defined by whether they are adherents of dharma.

Honestly, I think we're just subconsciously pandering to colonialist paradigms when we try and find some common belief or doctrine which defines Hinduism. Hindu is a group identity associated with sets of religious practices and traditions, and isn't bound by some doctrine or creed.
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You mean it pertains to a region, whoever enters in it and lives in it is included it even if one doesn't like this identity? Please
Regards
 
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It is an umbrella term for several religions. It is very much like asking, "Do you speak Indian?" It could be Punjabi, Tamil, Gujarati, or a host of other languages. From an outsiders POV or paradigm, the question makes sense because Germans speak German, in France they speak French etc. Generally there is a one to one match of country to language. But Hinduism is not like that.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Isn't Dharmic Religions a good identity? Please
Regards
Kirran said:
It's alright. But it's more a classification than an identity.
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This "Dharmic" identity has its origin in Veda:
The Classical Sanskrit noun dharma is a derivation from the root dhṛ, which means "to hold, maintain, keep",[note 3] and takes a meaning of "what is established or firm", and hence "law". It is derived from an older Vedic Sanskrit n-stem dharman-, with a literal meaning of "bearer, supporter", in a religious sense conceived as an aspect of Rta.[14]

In the Rigveda, the word appears as an n-stem, dhárman-, with a range of meanings encompassing "something established or firm" (in the literal sense of prods or poles). Figuratively, it means "sustainer" and "supporter" (of deities). It is semantically similar to the Greek Ethos ("fixed decree, statute, law").[15] In Classical Sanskrit, the noun becomes thematic: dharma-.
Dharma - Wikipedia
Post Vedic concepts are not revealed concepts.
Regards
 
Kirran

Kirran

ॐ
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
paarsurrey said: ↑
Isn't Dharmic Religions a good identity? Please
Regards


This "Dharmic" identity has its origin in Veda:
The Classical Sanskrit noun dharma is a derivation from the root dhṛ, which means "to hold, maintain, keep",[note 3] and takes a meaning of "what is established or firm", and hence "law". It is derived from an older Vedic Sanskrit n-stem dharman-, with a literal meaning of "bearer, supporter", in a religious sense conceived as an aspect of Rta.[14]

In the Rigveda, the word appears as an n-stem, dhárman-, with a range of meanings encompassing "something established or firm" (in the literal sense of prods or poles). Figuratively, it means "sustainer" and "supporter" (of deities). It is semantically similar to the Greek Ethos ("fixed decree, statute, law").[15] In Classical Sanskrit, the noun becomes thematic: dharma-.
Dharma - Wikipedia
Post Vedic concepts are not revealed concepts.
Regards
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Vedic concepts aren't revealed either, because that's an Islamic concept.

Dharma is a core ideal in Nastika Hindu schools, Tantra, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism too. They don't have anything to do with the Vedas.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Kirran said:
Vedic concepts aren't revealed either, because that's an Islamic concept.

Dharma is a core ideal in Nastika Hindu schools, Tantra, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism too. They don't have anything to do with the Vedas.
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"Vedic concepts aren't revealed either"
Vedas are claimed to be revealed scripture:

"The two qualifying features of a Hindu are faith in one Supreme God and belief in the authority of the Vedas and following the principles enshrined in them. The Vedas are accepted by everyone in Hindu dharma. The Vedas are ancient shastras taken as direct revelations by God to the enlightened rishis of India. As such, they have not originated at a particular time in history and are believed to be eternal and of divine origin. The Vedas are also known as the Shruti Shastras. Shruti means ‘that which is heard,’ i.e., the divine utterances revealed to the rishis by Bhagwan."
Belief in the Revealed Scriptures
Regards
 
SomeRandom

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
"Vedic concepts aren't revealed either"
Vedas are claimed to be revealed scripture:

"The two qualifying features of a Hindu are faith in one Supreme God and belief in the authority of the Vedas and following the principles enshrined in them. The Vedas are accepted by everyone in Hindu dharma. The Vedas are ancient shastras taken as direct revelations by God to the enlightened rishis of India. As such, they have not originated at a particular time in history and are believed to be eternal and of divine origin. The Vedas are also known as the Shruti Shastras. Shruti means ‘that which is heard,’ i.e., the divine utterances revealed to the rishis by Bhagwan."
Belief in the Revealed Scriptures
Regards
Click to expand...
BAPS is a sect, specifically the Swaminarayan sect, a modern sect of Hinduism that is an offshoot of Vaishnavism with arguably Western (read Abrahamic) sympathies/leanings. Nice try. They don't speak for all Hindus only their very specific brand of Hinduism. Noble as their charity donations often are though. And whilst no Hindu would really care to question their place as Hindus, using their beliefs to speak for all Hindus is like taking Catholic theology and then claiming it speaks for all Christian beliefs. Just.....no. Dishonest much?
 
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paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
SomeRandom said:
BAPS is a sect, specifically the Swaminarayan sect, a modern sect of Hinduism that is an offshoot of Vaishnavism with arguably Western (read Abrahamic) sympathies/leanings. Nice try. They don't speak for all Hindus only their very specific brand of Hinduism. Noble as their charity donations often are though. And whilst no Hindu would really care to question their place as Hindus, using their beliefs to speak for all Hindus is like taking Catholic theology and then claiming it speaks for all Christian beliefs. Just.....no. Dishonest much?
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Did I ever say that they speak for everybody?
The same is true for every sect/denomination under the umbrella term "Hinduism". Right? Please
Regards
 
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