Does it bother you that people believe in God or other deities?

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not about that. It's that it's not black and white. We all have biases and feelings. But in our more reflective moments we can ask if we want to take on moral relativism (MR), as a philosophy. From that perspective MR is usually seen as pretty black and white.

Please explain more.
And how it is philosophy? MR is a fact about how human morality works. It is a consequence of biology. Replication in social animals like us leads to relativism. There is no one humanity, that has to survive. The 4 Fs of biology also take place within the humans.
You don't like MR. Fair enough, but it is still a fact.

 

[icehorse]

Please explain more.
And how it is philosophy? MR is a fact about how human morality works. It is a consequence of biology. Replication in social animals like us leads to relativism. There is no one humanity, that has to survive. The 4 Fs of biology also take place within the humans.
You don't like MR. Fair enough, but it is still a fact.

Moral relativism is often defined as a philosophical approach. Now to me, it doesn't hold much water because it's non-falsifiable. But I acknowledge that I've never heard of an argument that can render MT incorrect.

So for me, in practice, we have to take an idea or two as axiomatic, and build our set of values from there. In my case, I take a utilitarian value that it's "good" to behave in ways that improve the well being of our fellows. I accept the MT claim that I cannot prove that it is in fact "good". That's simply the axiom I hold.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Moral relativism is often defined as a philosophical approach. Now to me, it doesn't hold much water because it's non-falsifiable. But I acknowledge that I've never heard of an argument that can render MT incorrect.

So for me, in practice, we have to take an idea or two as axiomatic, and build our set of values from there. In my case, I take a utilitarian value that it's "good" to behave in ways that improve the well being of our fellows. I accept the MT claim that I cannot prove that it is in fact "good". That's simply the axiom I hold.

I am effect have done the same.

 

[ajay0]

In a few discussion it look like some people are really bothered that other people do believe in a God or deities.

Does it really bother you that much that people believe in a God?

It does not bother me if people do not wish to believe in a God or deities, as long as they practice virtuous conduct and behavior, which in itself is potent enough to bring one to truth and enlightenment on its own.

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

Some sayings in this regard...

“When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always.” - Swami Satchidananda


Buddha also states thus, " Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost." AN 10.1


If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the mind. - Rajini Menon



Virtuous conduct and behavior is also emphasized in theistic religions. It is said by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the founder of Art of Living, that God will bless a good atheist rather than a bad and vicious believer. Sai Baba had stated that a virtuous person will attract the love of God on the basis of his virtuous conduct and considered this superior to mere devotion to God.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

It bothers me what religion sanction. Murder, child abuse, rape, the list is long.

Why when modern society in the modern world has tackled these problems without religion and the belief that some mythical figure is going to solve everything and give you an afterlife They can't even decide what afterlife you're going to get, a spirit one or one with lots of virgins, or one where you dine with Valhalla or one where you come back, On and on.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It bothers me what religion sanction. Murder, child abuse, rape, the list is long.

Why when modern society in the modern world has tackled these problems without religion and the belief that some mythical figure is going to solve everything and give you an afterlife They can't even decide what afterlife you're going to get, a spirit one or one with lots of virgins, or one where you dine with Valhalla or one where you come back, On and on.

Umm you do know murder, abuse, rape, abortion, and so on is seen as wrong doing or sin in religion?
That people do wrong is not religion fault, it is human lack of good morality

 

[Goddess Kit]

Moral relativism is often defined as a philosophical approach. Now to me, it doesn't hold much water because it's non-falsifiable. But I acknowledge that I've never heard of an argument that can render MT incorrect.

So for me, in practice, we have to take an idea or two as axiomatic, and build our set of values from there. In my case, I take a utilitarian value that it's "good" to behave in ways that improve the well being of our fellows. I accept the MT claim that I cannot prove that it is in fact "good". That's simply the axiom I hold.

I find it much easier to think to myself: how would I feel if I was treated the way I am about to treat this individual.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Umm you do know murder, abuse, rape, abortion, and so on is seen as wrong doing or sin in religion?
That people do wrong is not religion fault, it is human lack of good morality

You misread what I said. Probably because English is a second language.

I'm referring to churches of all faiths sanctioning, murder, rape, child abuse, adult's abuse. A few examples.

roman catholic attempt to hide chiod abuse - Google Search

jehovah witnesses attempt to hide chiod abuse - Google Search

Penalty for apostates - Google Search

priest raping nuns - Google Search

islamic wars 20th century - Google Search

irish nuns killing babies - Google Search

irish nuns abusing single mothers - Google Search

There's a whole lot more I can point to especially in countries not as modern as ours. Go back a few hundred years to find them. Travel to parts of the third world and see religion persecuting the people they are meant to protect.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You misread what I said. Probably because English is a second language.

I'm referring to churches of all faiths sanctioning, murder, rape, child abuse, adult's abuse. A few examples.

roman catholic attempt to hide chiod abuse - Google Search

jehovah witnesses attempt to hide chiod abuse - Google Search

Penalty for apostates - Google Search

priest raping nuns - Google Search

islamic wars 20th century - Google Search

irish nuns killing babies - Google Search

irish nuns abusing single mothers - Google Search

There's a whole lot more I can point to especially in countries not as modern as ours. Go back a few hundred years to find them. Travel to parts of the third world and see religion persecuting the people they are meant to protect.

Stil, that is people who do wrongdoing, it is not the religion it self or its teaching that is wrong, people are doing those actions.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Stil, that is people who do wrongdoing, it is not the religion it self or its teaching that is wrong, people are doing those actions.

The religion is sanctioning the cases I listed.

Are you telling us church hierarchy didn't just move sexual predators to different parishes to abuse again? Didn't turn the abusers over to the police. Didn't do their utmost to hide any wrongdoings. No Imans ever preach hate.

Religions don't execute gays, apostates, adulterers, Islam is loving everyone, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=imans+preach+hate

 

[Spirit of Light]

The religion is sanctioning the cases I listed.

Are you telling us church hierarchy didn't just move sexual predators to different parishes to abuse again? Didn't turn the abusers over to the police. Didn't do their utmost to hide any wrongdoings. No Imans ever preach hate.

Religions don't execute gays, apostates, adulterers, Islam is loving everyone, etc.

Again, all you speak about is people who have done wrong within religioues setting, again the people is the once who do wrong. Not the religious teaching.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Again, all you speak about is people who have done wrong within religioues setting, again the people is the once who do wrong. Not the religious teaching.

You really don't get it. Church hierarchy allows cover-ups, ignores wrongdoings, murder, rape, abuse etc. To protect the church from bad publicity. They allow people to spew hate from the top down.

Who cares what the religious teaching tells them, we have the law and they ignore that as well.

Do Islamic holy books tell you to kill apostates, blasphemers, adulterers, rape, etc?

BBC - Religions - Islam: Capital punishment

What are
Hadd or Huddud and Tazir Crimes?

 

[Spirit of Light]

You really don't get it. Church hierarchy allows cover-ups, ignores wrongdoings, murder, rape, abuse etc. To protect the church from bad publicity. They allow people to spew hate from the top down.

Who cares what the religious teaching tells them, we have the law and they ignore that as well.

Do Islamic holy books tell you to kill apostates, blasphemers, adulterers, rape, etc?

BBC - Religions - Islam: Capital punishment

What are
Hadd or Huddud and Tazir Crimes?

I do get it.
You do anything in your power to speak bad about any religion.
I say peo9le have done wrong, religious people have done wrong.

The teaching in religion are from God, i dont argue against God.

So just stopnyour quest to speak as if i dont know that it has happen wrongdoing from some religious people.

 

[icehorse]

I find it much easier to think to myself: how would I feel if I was treated the way I am about to treat this individual.

Nothing wrong with the golden rule. But some actions benefit many people.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I do get it.
You do anything in your power to speak bad about any religion.
I say peo9le have done wrong, religious people have done wrong.

The teaching in religion are from God, i dont argue against God.

So just stopnyour quest to speak as if i dont know that it has happen wrongdoing from some religious people.

So your version of god is doing nothing wrong. Just some of the people who claim to be working for it.

I posted true links not fairy stories.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So your version of god is doing nothing wrong. Just some of the people who claim to be working for it.

I posted true links not fairy stories.

Yes people do wrong a God do not.
People are on earth, doing wrong doings God is not on earth, in heaven not doing wrong

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Yes people do wrong a God do not.
People are on earth, doing wrong doings God is not on earth, in heaven not doing wrong

Did I say god has done anything wrong?

Or did I say some churches and religions do wrong?

Why do you try to put words in my mouth?I don't believe in God so it would be impossible for me to say god does anything wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Did I say god has done anything wrong?

Or did I say some churches and religions do wrong?

Why do you try to put words in my mouth?

I dont put words in your mouth.
All i say is that all of those things you have said so far has been to say "religion is false, religion is bad"
You may of course say that, you are free to have your view.
But to me it seems like no matter what religious people believe in or have faith in, you say it is wrong, bad, evil and so on. All because you do not believe it to be true.
What i say is that no matter what you say in thiis OP or in @Trailblazer OP, people have their right to believe in religious practices even you believe they are not true beliefs.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I dont put words in your mouth.
All i say is that all of those things you have said so far has been to say "religion is false, religion is bad"
You may of course say that, you are free to have your view.
But to me it seems like no matter what religious people believe in or have faith in, you say it is wrong, bad, evil and so on. All because you do not believe it to be true.
What i say is that no matter what you say in thiis OP or in @Trailblazer OP, people have their right to believe in religious practices even you believe they are not true beliefs.

So when did I say god did anything wrong?

People have their right to debate as well. If you don't want to debate don't post.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So when did I say god did anything wrong?

People have their right to debate as well. If you don't want to debate don't post.

First of all you debate about a God you do not believe in as if he exist anyway, that i dont understand.
If people has their right to debate, why do you never say " ah so this is what you believe, that is ok but i believe differently"
Why have i never seen you answer like that?