Does It Matter If God Exists?

[Milton Platt]

Didn't you know, there is only one true God, although there are many imposters.

Good to see you again Milton, you are one of my favorite atheists. I have three now.

Didn't you know, there is only one true God, although there are many imposters.

Good to see you again Milton, you are one of my favorite atheists. I have three now.

LOL Thanks. Well, everybody's god is the one true god if you ask them. Usually for some of the same reasons. Even Christians can't settle on the nature, or attributes, or requirements of their own god. Let me know when you theists get that sorted out.

 

[Left Coast]

I have not seen convincing evidence. Which particular god is this thread addressing, anyway?

I had the classical theist God in mind, but am open to discussing others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, everybody's god is the one true god if you ask them. Usually for some of the same reasons.

Well, that's true.

Even Christians can't settle on the nature, or attributes, or requirements of their own god.

Well, that's true too.

Let me know when you theists get that sorted out.

I doubt the others will ever sort it out because they have been in disagreement far too long, but the Baha'is have it all sorted out. Coincidentally, I just posted this description of God to a friend on my forum because we have been bantering about how God could be the Creator if Creation has always existed, as Baha'is believe... So here is the post that straightened things out:

“Baha’is believe in an almighty creator who has fashioned the universe and has made man in his own image; they believe in a non-created cause of all existence, in a single God. The word ‘God’ is a symbol for that transcendent reality by which all existence is ruled and maintained. What we call God is not, as the critics of the concept of God believe, a product of human imagination, a creation of the mind, a fanciful invention which has no reality, or a reflection of particular social and economic circumstances.”
(Udo Schafer, the light that shineth in the darkness, p. 19)

 

[Ancient Soul]

Let me assure you, that my question being the best you have come across is purely by accident on my part XD

I think I understand that.

So in summary if I understand you correctly:

Foundations:
- Endulge in nature and not man made constructions
- Be open to spiritual lessons

- Connect with your inner self
- Silence your mind
- Try using various noiseless meditative techniques

That's basically it. For a start anyway.

There is one other critical thing though. I only left it out because I could not think of how to articulate it last night, so wanted to think about it and get back to you tonight.

Now while what I stated before will help to "open the door" to connecting with God and/or obtaining spiritual answers, one has to have a goal, a question, a want, etc. Something to focus upon so that God knows you have the "door open".

However, even after spending a great deal of time trying to go thru the process, I cannot think of how to describe how "I" do it. It's just so automatic I think the "door" is always open. So the best I can come up with to explain how it works for me, is to just envision what I am seeking an answer to, then God answers and/or visually shows me what I am seeking. (That's why I stated the seeking and you will find comment.)

I know, that doesn't explain much, but that's the best I can do.

One will have to keep trying and asking until the right combination of techniques is found. And probably that would be the first question to ask of God, to ask for help finding the right technique, and then listening to your "inner self" to guide you to what will work for you. Just don't give up, everything has it's learning curve.

From what you are saying, it seems to me to be a process trusting your intuition and embracing your true self? I certainly understand why shunning man made constructions in intervals is a requirement because from what I have experienced, I feel way more refreshed and calm when in nature. I have suspected that there is something about nature that has an impact on why people believe in God whereas being surrounded by "concrete" makes on detached.

When one is out in "nature" as you call it, they are in God's temple.

And for each and every soul, that's all there should be. All the strife, man made distractions, TV, addiction to phones, politics, wars, bigotry, and on, and on, and on... should be cleared from one's mind. Like just today, I was out hiking with my dog and yelled to a guy riding his mountain bicycle to STOP, because my HUGE German Shepard likes to chase such things. And he was oblivious to my shouting because he had ear buds on listening to music, only finally stopping because of my hand gestures. A perfect example of why most everyone is so spiritually OUT of balance, always filling their heads with man made distractions, even when in God's temple. Thus the "door" is always SHUT to such people.

My follow up question will be though: How do you know that you have connected to God?

Your "inner self" as you prefer to call it will let you know. (Although I prefer to call it my soul.)

Now everyone will have their own way to experience receiving spiritual answers. Be it verbal answers, visually shown, or like me, usually both comes flooding in all at once. WAY more than the carnal mind could ever handle, but the inner self/soul can handle it all with ease.

And if you actually meet God, again your inner self/soul will "read" his energy and impart to you that he is the all powerful creator, maintainer, and controller of all.

OK. I get what you mean. Many people are too closed minded about religion because they follow a cult of personality and what that personality says rather than search for God. They might as well not care about God but follow the man as God.

EXACTLY!

I've stated this many times. There is God, and there is man. and God has given each and every soul a direct connection to himself, God. But self-aggrandizing, greedy for money, or just plain evil MEN like to insert themselves in between God and man, so that they all look to these MEN for spiritual answers instead of God. But having no true spiritual answers, offer only nice sounding lies instead.

 

[Ancient Soul]

For myself I try to view the world around me with as little man made distractions as possible. Spending as much time as possible exploring the natural world, the outdoors, wilderness. It keeps me connected to God, spiritually balanced, and silences my mind so God can answer my spiritual questions. And in my dealings with people, I am always prepared for any spiritual lessons that may be presented to me. To understand what is going on, and how I should deal with it.

But while the above is important, it's just the foundation of it all. The key to "connecting" with God is to "connect" with your soul, inner self, higher self, whatever you may call it. It helps make it easier if one feels connected to God, is spiritually balanced, and MUST have a silent mind. As that is the very first thing God taught me, how to silence my mind so that I could have full access to my soul. Then one can know God and seek true spiritual answers directly from the source. There's more to doing that, but I'm at a loss for the words on how to describe going any further. So all I can do is recommend trying various meditative techniques that does NOT require any noise or chanting until you find the one that works best for you.

I found this interesting because I also like to go into nature to 'reconnect'. I also get a wonderful feeling of peace and tranquility from, say, being out under the stars on a clear, dark night. The 'silent mind' is also something I cultivate.

I just don't see how that has anything to do with a God. Instead, i see it as a common human emotion that is restoring.

So, why do you identify this with God and I don't?

You are not following the full context of the conversation.

It is basically trying to explain how I always STAY connected to God.

If you re-read it in that context it might make more sense to you.

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

That's a fascinating statement. So questioning whether God's existence matters doesn't matter. That makes me chuckle.

I never said that all. I said the way you are speaking of God itself, the way you're seemingly trying to conceptualize it, is as I said in my post.

 

[Left Coast]

I never said that all. I said the way you are speaking of God itself, the way you're seemingly trying to conceptualize it, is as I said in my post.

How does it seem I'm trying to conceptualize it, to you? My conception when speaking of "capital G" God is usually the classical theist God of the philosophers. But if you'd like to discuss something different, I'm open to hearing it.

 

[rrobs]

rrobs said: ↑
My takeaway from all of this is that, for some inexplicable reason, you don't agree with everything I say. I don't know what to make of that.

I am not surprised. I too do not agree with anything that you say. You are a Christian believer and I am an atheist. Perhaps Israel Khan also differs with you for some such reason.

You think I may have been joking?

 

[thomas t]

In short, even if God does exist...does it matter?

there have been many great answers in this thread.
But let me tackle this issue of the OP again....
In my opinion the question is the same if you are invited at some place that does not belong to you. What happens if something goes wrong?
If there is a Creator-God, and you happened to do something wrong... you harmed the very Creation He created.
The Bible goes one step further still: if there is both evidence for a Creator and evidence for every human to have an innate porpensity to harm creation... they should find a way to get rid of this propensity.
To put it bit dramatically, it's like an oil company having a rotten pipeline, in this case. If they know of it... they need to fix it, otherwise we get an oil spill.

This is my take on the issue.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You think I may have been joking?

No. Your description in the box says that you are a Christian (and I have been through some of your other posts).

 

[Aupmanyav]

In my opinion the question is the same if you are invited at some place that does not belong to you. What happens if something goes wrong?
If there is a Creator-God, and you happened to do something wrong... you harmed the very Creation He created.
The Bible goes one step further still: if there is both evidence for a Creator

The place belongs to me more than to any fictitious entity.
There is no creator-God. Universe came about by other mechanism.
No religion has ever provided evidence for God, soul and all related things.

 

[thomas t]

There is no creator-God. Universe came about by other mechanism.

So you say there is none: the burden of proof is on you then.
For instance... when I say there is no elefant in the room... I could provide the proof and shoot a photo of my room. How about you? Can you provide evidence for your claim?
If you can't, I take it as presumption.

 

[Polymath257]

So you say there is none: the burden of proof is on you then.
For instance... when I say there is no elefant in the room... I could provide the proof and shoot a photo of my room. How about you? Can you provide evidence for your claim?
If you can't, I take it as presumption.

Well, I can certainly take a photo and prove there is no God in my room.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, I can certainly take a photo and prove there is no God in my room.

Nor in mine, but there is an non-religious believer on this forum who told me that God has paid Him a visit.
The after that I said "Happy Trails" because I do not believe God ever pays anyone a visit.

 

[rrobs]

No. Your description in the box says that you are a Christian (and I have been through some of your other posts).

Interesting conclusion. What in the world makes you think being a Christian precludes goofing around?

I'm just glad I'm not on trial with you on the jury.

 

[Samael_Khan]

That's basically it. For a start anyway.

There is one other critical thing though. I only left it out because I could not think of how to articulate it last night, so wanted to think about it and get back to you tonight.

Now while what I stated before will help to "open the door" to connecting with God and/or obtaining spiritual answers, one has to have a goal, a question, a want, etc. Something to focus upon so that God knows you have the "door open".

However, even after spending a great deal of time trying to go thru the process, I cannot think of how to describe how "I" do it. It's just so automatic I think the "door" is always open. So the best I can come up with to explain how it works for me, is to just envision what I am seeking an answer to, then God answers and/or visually shows me what I am seeking. (That's why I stated the seeking and you will find comment.)

I know, that doesn't explain much, but that's the best I can do.

One will have to keep trying and asking until the right combination of techniques is found. And probably that would be the first question to ask of God, to ask for help finding the right technique, and then listening to your "inner self" to guide you to what will work for you. Just don't give up, everything has it's learning curve.

To me what you are describing seems to be an explanation of how to let purely your intuition guide you. One has their intuition, their gut instinct, but usually our busy minds interrupt that and employ thought to solve a problem. So we solve problems using our thoughts usually, not our gut intuition. In my experience my intuition already knows the answer, but my ego, my mind overlays that and tries to ignore it like a hysterical worrier trying to over analyzer the situations. This is because intuition doesn't provide reason behind decisions, just a sort of compass guide feeling (like certain options make one feel comfortable while others make one uncomfortable), and logically we are uncomfortable doing things without solid reasoning. Usually when I do something as a result of my thoughts, and my thoughts are not in line with my intuition, my consciousness creates sort of a cognitive dissonance, a sense that I am not following my core values and what I truly believe. Luckily I am a designer, and since design is a combination of bringing the subjective and objective in harmony, I am getting better at making decisions with my thoughts and intuition in harmony, which makes me feel content. I wouldn't call this God (IMO of course) but I cannot prove one way or another what that is.

When one is out in "nature" as you call it, they are in God's temple.

And for each and every soul, that's all there should be. All the strife, man made distractions, TV, addiction to phones, politics, wars, bigotry, and on, and on, and on... should be cleared from one's mind. Like just today, I was out hiking with my dog and yelled to a guy riding his mountain bicycle to STOP, because my HUGE German Shepard likes to chase such things. And he was oblivious to my shouting because he had ear buds on listening to music, only finally stopping because of my hand gestures. A perfect example of why most everyone is so spiritually OUT of balance, always filling their heads with man made distractions, even when in God's temple. Thus the "door" is always SHUT to such people.

I agree fully with the strife and distractions being cleared from one's head. I think that modern society is suffering from information overload and people's minds are cluttered with junk. Obviously there are relevant info within that junk but it really distracts a person from being true to themselves, as they are told how they should be rather than what they know they should be. I think that coming to set conclusions about many things that we don't have all the information to or we haven't thought out properly contributes to this as making hasty decisions at least gives me a sense of not being in harmony, which is why I am very hesitant to come to conclusions about things I cannot examine first hand these days.

Your "inner self" as you prefer to call it will let you know. (Although I prefer to call it my soul.)

Now everyone will have their own way to experience receiving spiritual answers. Be it verbal answers, visually shown, or like me, usually both comes flooding in all at once. WAY more than the carnal mind could ever handle, but the inner self/soul can handle it all with ease.

And if you actually meet God, again your inner self/soul will "read" his energy and impart to you that he is the all powerful creator, maintainer, and controller of all.

I think that I can relate to what you are saying but we are describing it using different words. If the path to knowing God is through embracing your intuition to the fullest extent, which is the expulsion of thought, then to me it makes sense why people in the ancient days were very religious and why people these days are not. I am not saying that I believe that this way provides us access to God or not, but I do not think we have explore that avenue enough to come to a conclusion as a community. But the big question then is why did God then create the mind to think when thoughts distract us from getting to know him?

EXACTLY!

I've stated this many times. There is God, and there is man. and God has given each and every soul a direct connection to himself, God. But self-aggrandizing, greedy for money, or just plain evil MEN like to insert themselves in between God and man, so that they all look to these MEN for spiritual answers instead of God. But having no true spiritual answers, offer only nice sounding lies instead.

Interestingly this actually gels well with what we are examining in our whole discussion. People join these MEN through indoctrination, hence the CULT of personality. What happens in these groups is that the groups thoughts override a persons natural intuition, telling individuals that our own will is wrong, and telling them that one must follow the rules even though those rules might go against their conscience. This causes disharmony between a persons natural will and their actions, which causes quite a lot of psychological problems. Basically a person who is in one of these groups would not be living authentically but living a lie.

 

[Samael_Khan]

My husband is not always the most logical person. In fact, I'd say he is more emotional and I am more logical. A few weeks ago we got lost in the country coming back from a trip and he told me to keep driving even though neither one of us had any idea if we were going in the right direction in order to get home. I listened to him for a while and finally I realized I had to do something different because it was insanity to keep driving not knowing where we were going or where we might end up. Finally we ended up at a small tavern and I pulled over and tried to flag down some cars for directions and when that didn't work I called 911 for directions. I immediately got good directions and we made our way home.

Ha! You guys remind me of my parents. My father is the emotional one whereas my mother is the calm one. Often times my father ignores logic because of his heightened emotional state. You guys seem to balance each other out well then.

Obviously, if God exists God exists, and I am not going to stop believing in God because I do not like Him. I not only can't stop believing, it would not be wise to stop, knowing what I know about God and the possible consequences.

Exactly. I think it would be unwise to stop even if God was a deistic God because it would be unwise to stop believing a fact.

I fully agree with all of what you said above. I am a firm believer in free will and personal responsibility and I do not believe God intervenes to effect outcomes in this world. As for tests and suffering or lack thereof, I think much of it is just luck of the draw. or fate. Whether the happy people who suffered little in this life will be better off in the afterlife is not known, but to the extent that suffering helps us grow stronger and more spiritual and develop our character, I think we are better off even in this life, and there are many examples of that. Compare our U.S. presidential candidates for example. Joe Biden has undergone many hardships and he has character, the other candidate not so much.

Suffering is a very interesting topic with regards to whether it should exist or not. Would we develop solid characters without adversity? Would we enjoy life without conflict? Much enjoyment comes from the knowledge that we have overcome adversity because it provides us with self worth. Obviously adversity such as loved ones dying is a bit too unnecessary emotionally wise. I mean, humans love adversity so much that there has to be conflict in a story in order for a story to be good and the more complex the better. Humans do not like stories that have no conflict. This makes me wonder whether the Abrahamic concept of Paradise would mean life would be dull and boring. The fall of man in the Bible is one of the most enthralling story concepts ever produced and makes the Bible more interesting. Imagine if there was no conflict in the Bible. Who would even read the book?

That is a legitimate point, people could just as easily believe in God if there was no God, but I also think that people have the capacity to believe in God if God actually exists, since it makes sense to me that God would create us with that capacity if God wanted to be believed in. However, if God was a deist God all bets are off because He would not care what we believe.

I think that it is natural for humans to be able to comprehend the existence of a God in either version of reality, and this is based purely on the fact that the majority of humans throughout history have believe din higher powers for the majority of human history. It seems to be one of the definite stepping stones into scientific progress IMO, which is why all societies have have ancestors who believed in the existence of deities.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So you say there is none: the burden of proof is on you then.
Can you provide evidence for your claim?

Yeah, I agree to that and not afraid of the demand. Your question is answered by Cosmogony - Wikipedia. What evidence other than "MyGoddiditinsixdaysandrestedontheseventh" do you have to offer?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What in the world makes you think being a Christian precludes goofing around?

You are on the other side of the divide. One has to be careful about a surprise attack.

 

[Ancient Soul]

To me what you are describing seems to be an explanation of how to let purely your intuition guide you. One has their intuition, their gut instinct, but usually our busy minds interrupt that and employ thought to solve a problem. So we solve problems using our thoughts usually, not our gut intuition. In my experience my intuition already knows the answer, but my ego, my mind overlays that and tries to ignore it like a hysterical worrier trying to over analyzer the situations. This is because intuition doesn't provide reason behind decisions, just a sort of compass guide feeling (like certain options make one feel comfortable while others make one uncomfortable), and logically we are uncomfortable doing things without solid reasoning. Usually when I do something as a result of my thoughts, and my thoughts are not in line with my intuition, my consciousness creates sort of a cognitive dissonance, a sense that I am not following my core values and what I truly believe. Luckily I am a designer, and since design is a combination of bringing the subjective and objective in harmony, I am getting better at making decisions with my thoughts and intuition in harmony, which makes me feel content. I wouldn't call this God (IMO of course) but I cannot prove one way or another what that is.

Yes, you are getting what I was trying to say.

However, I never will understand why people have to break everything down into little pieces, then affix themselves to all the little pieces, and lose how everything works TOGETHER.

On my first visit to the Spiritual Realm/Heaven, God had shown my all about my soul. It was a large invisible sphere of energy, with lots of smaller spheres of energy within it. And each of the smaller spheres could be combined into different configurations to accomplish whatever I needed to do in the Spiritual Realm/Heaven. He didn't name each of the smaller spheres because they were ALL of the soul, the complete soul, the essence of everything that "I" am. There are no "parts".

So what you are calling your "intuition", is really what you call your "inner self" (soul), they are the same thing, just different names. If you keep on thinking your "inner self" is something other than your "intuition", you will probably hinder your spiritual progress.

I think that I can relate to what you are saying but we are describing it using different words. If the path to knowing God is through embracing your intuition to the fullest extent, which is the expulsion of thought, then to me it makes sense why people in the ancient days were very religious and why people these days are not. I am not saying that I believe that this way provides us access to God or not, but I do not think we have explore that avenue enough to come to a conclusion as a community. But the big question then is why did God then create the mind to think when thoughts distract us from getting to know him?

To answer that you have to redefine who "you" really are. As the REAL YOU being your "inner self' (soul), and your physical body is just an interface for the soul to interact with the physical world. And the physical mind is the source of sensory input, processing that input, and controlling the actions of the body based upon that input. Now while the "inner self" (soul) still plays a part in that, the more the mind is busy interacting with all the physical input, the more the "inner self" (soul) gets it's "voice" shut out. That's why silencing the mind is so important.

Interestingly this actually gels well with what we are examining in our whole discussion. People join these MEN through indoctrination, hence the CULT of personality. What happens in these groups is that the groups thoughts override a persons natural intuition, telling individuals that our own will is wrong, and telling them that one must follow the rules even though those rules might go against their conscience. This causes disharmony between a persons natural will and their actions, which causes quite a lot of psychological problems. Basically a person who is in one of these groups would not be living authentically but living a lie.

Yes, exactly.

And it also shuts them out from ever seeking to understanding what the REAL God is all about and their own true spiritual selves, because they have been led astray by the lies of man.