Does It Pay To Be Good?

[Kilgore Trout]

Accomplishing tasks sound like personal goals. How do they interact with how you treat others?

The two things are alike in that they are rewarding in themselves. Does this clarify your confusion?

 

[james bond]

The two things are alike in that they are rewarding in themselves. Does this clarify your confusion?

No. You're avoiding the question. Bye Kilgore.

 

[james bond]

in my personal opinion , NO

So, it's better to look out for #1?

 

[james bond]

"Good" is to a considerable extent defined by its tendency to improve its own sustainability, so yes.

I think you're saying good provides a more lasting impression.

 

[Quintessence]

From the standpoint of virtue ethics, one upholds a particular code of conduct to cultivate a desired character in oneself. Whether or not it "pays" in some fashion to uphold your own code is not the issue - your own honor and excellence is more than enough of a stake. It is the mentality whereby one lives and dies by one's principles regardless of adversity. That gravity is why it is important to choose ones desired virtues with care. You uphold your chosen virtue because it is who you are and who you want to be. There need be no other reason, such as "payment."

 

[David1967]

Love that show! Seen every episode. Chuck summed up Jimmy correctly when describing him as someone "who does all the wrong things for the right reasons."

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I'm getting this question from watching Better Call Saul on AMC. Basically, it's a story of two brothers that were raised by strict parents. I'm not sure if the parents were religious or not, but the father seems to have been the primary influence in their lives. The viewer finds out that the parents worked hard all their lives at a gas station market, but did not profit very much. From the way one son, Jimmy, describes it, the father was too soft in believing the poor people who came into the store, and thus he gave them credit which they didn't repay. Since the father believed the poor people's stories and got a reputation for being a "soft touch," more people gave him sob stories and took advantage of his kindness. Jimmy helped his father out and became good in dealing with people, but decided that being unscrupulous was a better approach in dealing with some of these people. It was a tit for tat strategy. On the other hand, his brother Chuck went to school, got accolades and became a super lawyer. However, his weakness was that of not being good with people or showing much empathy for them. He wasn't as popular or as well like as his brother. He thought ideals and his moral principles were more important. Jimmy would excuse someone who tried and failed while he couldn't stand the liars, cheaters and stealers. Yet, he became one himself in order to cope. We see him turn into a supreme liar and con-man type of lawyer in order to get ahead in life.

I think all of us would like to consider themselves "good Samaritans" in that they will help someone in trouble. However, trying to help someone from a mugger could get themselves killed or seriously injured. One has to know themselves and their limitations on helping someone in this situation. It could be that one has to properly assess the dangers of the situation. For example, a young child is drowning and is floating down a river. One can't think even if they are an expert swimmer that they can just jump in to rescue the child. Some times good Samaritans can get killed or injured trying to save someone. It does no good to lose two lives or to inadvertently lose one's own life in trying to save another.

So, my question is, does it pay to be good? I think one can be too honest. One has to think about themselves, as well. Being too honest or honest to a fault, I would define it as, "honest to a fault means they will inconvenience themselves or cost themselves money and opportunity in order to he helpful, loyal and transparent." Sure, being helpful, loyal and transparent is good, but there are limits if it is too costly for oneself. In other words, being good comes at a price.

As for Christians, we hear that Jesus was perfect. I like to think this, but I'm not sure how he dealt with all of his situations he encountered. Sometimes, I hit these situations and do not have an answer myself. I give money to people who beg on the streets. Some of them look like they can use it. I rather give them food or clothing, but I've found they rather have money. This makes me suspicious. Helping at the food service or giving to Salvation Army is fine, but they too, aren't as eager to collect what you have to give them. Thus, I seek help from others more knowing.

Yes! In evolutionary terms, begin good pays! It is called altruism. Every good act is in fact a selfish act. It can be described in rather complex terms, but the simplified view is that any population will contain 'altruistic' individuals as well as 'cheaters.' The more cheaters their are, the higher the rewards for being altruistic. The more altruistic individuals, the easier it is to make it as a cheater. Kind of a negative feedback system. Cheaters are fertile ground for good-doers and good-doers are fertile ground for cheaters.

Both strategies are viable!

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course one should be compassionate and do good, but of course you should also have limits, especially when it comes to those who would try to manipulate you or squander your generosity.
Like the beggar example, give them food or clothing instead of money to ensure it's not going towards drugs or alcohol, or donate to reputable organizations who assist those in need.
It's good to help and to give, but it's also wise to assess the situation first to ensure that you're not being deceived and taken advantage of by cheats, ingrates, and wastrels.

 

[Father Heathen]

No. You're avoiding the question. Bye Kilgore.

No, his answer was succinct; doing good is it's own reward. It's that warm, fuzzy feeling you get knowing that you've made a fellow human being's day better. If you're "good" only because you expect a reward in return then you're not really good after all.

 

[SunnySara]

I'm getting this question from watching Better Call Saul on AMC. Basically, it's a story of two brothers that were raised by strict parents. I'm not sure if the parents were religious or not, but the father seems to have been the primary influence in their lives. The viewer finds out that the parents worked hard all their lives at a gas station market, but did not profit very much. From the way one son, Jimmy, describes it, the father was too soft in believing the poor people who came into the store, and thus he gave them credit which they didn't repay. Since the father believed the poor people's stories and got a reputation for being a "soft touch," more people gave him sob stories and took advantage of his kindness. Jimmy helped his father out and became good in dealing with people, but decided that being unscrupulous was a better approach in dealing with some of these people. It was a tit for tat strategy. On the other hand, his brother Chuck went to school, got accolades and became a super lawyer. However, his weakness was that of not being good with people or showing much empathy for them. He wasn't as popular or as well like as his brother. He thought ideals and his moral principles were more important. Jimmy would excuse someone who tried and failed while he couldn't stand the liars, cheaters and stealers. Yet, he became one himself in order to cope. We see him turn into a supreme liar and con-man type of lawyer in order to get ahead in life.

I think all of us would like to consider themselves "good Samaritans" in that they will help someone in trouble. However, trying to help someone from a mugger could get themselves killed or seriously injured. One has to know themselves and their limitations on helping someone in this situation. It could be that one has to properly assess the dangers of the situation. For example, a young child is drowning and is floating down a river. One can't think even if they are an expert swimmer that they can just jump in to rescue the child. Some times good Samaritans can get killed or injured trying to save someone. It does no good to lose two lives or to inadvertently lose one's own life in trying to save another.

So, my question is, does it pay to be good? I think one can be too honest. One has to think about themselves, as well. Being too honest or honest to a fault, I would define it as, "honest to a fault means they will inconvenience themselves or cost themselves money and opportunity in order to he helpful, loyal and transparent." Sure, being helpful, loyal and transparent is good, but there are limits if it is too costly for oneself. In other words, being good comes at a price.

As for Christians, we hear that Jesus was perfect. I like to think this, but I'm not sure how he dealt with all of his situations he encountered. Sometimes, I hit these situations and do not have an answer myself. I give money to people who beg on the streets. Some of them look like they can use it. I rather give them food or clothing, but I've found they rather have money. This makes me suspicious. Helping at the food service or giving to Salvation Army is fine, but they too, aren't as eager to collect what you have to give them. Thus, I seek help from others more knowing.

This OP is a great example of why you should probably dump Christianity.

"Good," or "being good" is far too subjective a subject and it seems like you're struggling to comprehend the concept or that you've turned it into something no one understands.

Some people think rape and murder are good, and it pays off for them too.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think you're saying good provides a more lasting impression.

No, I said what I said.

 

[arthra]

So, my question is, does it pay to be good? I think one can be too honest. One has to think about themselves, as well. Being too honest or honest to a fault, I would define it as, "honest to a fault means they will inconvenience themselves or cost themselves money and opportunity in order to he helpful, loyal and transparent." Sure, being helpful, loyal and transparent is good, but there are limits if it is too costly for oneself. In other words, being good comes at a price.

Well James Bond you certainly have had a long career as 007 and I recall some of your flicks...

But seriously I think all of us are affected by others and their actions.. My family has a long history in my community going back over a hundred years and I can see over time how the actions of my predecessors have shaped my own history

I think there is a kind of action/reaction in human affairs that plays itself out in our lives... Some call it "karma" and in the Gospel it mentions "by their fruits ye shall know them" also "that which ye sow so shall ye reap".

The Baha'i Writings also compare humanity to a tree...

The Blessed Beauty said: "All are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch." He likened the world of existence to one tree and all the souls to leaves, blossoms and fruits. Therefore all the branches, leaves, blossoms and fruits must be in the utmost of freshness, and the bringing about of this delicacy and sweetness depends upon union and fellowship. Therefore they must assist each other with all their power and seek everlasting life. Thus the friends of God must manifest the mercy of the Compassionate Lord in the world of existence and must show forth the bounty of the visible and invisible King. They must purify their sight, and look upon mankind as the leaves, blossoms and fruits of the tree of creation, and must always be thinking of doing good to someone, of love, consideration, affection and assistance to somebody."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith -, p. 215

 

[Ricktheheretic]

I'm getting this question from watching Better Call Saul on AMC. Basically, it's a story of two brothers that were raised by strict parents. I'm not sure if the parents were religious or not, but the father seems to have been the primary influence in their lives. The viewer finds out that the parents worked hard all their lives at a gas station market, but did not profit very much. From the way one son, Jimmy, describes it, the father was too soft in believing the poor people who came into the store, and thus he gave them credit which they didn't repay. Since the father believed the poor people's stories and got a reputation for being a "soft touch," more people gave him sob stories and took advantage of his kindness. Jimmy helped his father out and became good in dealing with people, but decided that being unscrupulous was a better approach in dealing with some of these people. It was a tit for tat strategy. On the other hand, his brother Chuck went to school, got accolades and became a super lawyer. However, his weakness was that of not being good with people or showing much empathy for them. He wasn't as popular or as well like as his brother. He thought ideals and his moral principles were more important. Jimmy would excuse someone who tried and failed while he couldn't stand the liars, cheaters and stealers. Yet, he became one himself in order to cope. We see him turn into a supreme liar and con-man type of lawyer in order to get ahead in life.

I think all of us would like to consider themselves "good Samaritans" in that they will help someone in trouble. However, trying to help someone from a mugger could get themselves killed or seriously injured. One has to know themselves and their limitations on helping someone in this situation. It could be that one has to properly assess the dangers of the situation. For example, a young child is drowning and is floating down a river. One can't think even if they are an expert swimmer that they can just jump in to rescue the child. Some times good Samaritans can get killed or injured trying to save someone. It does no good to lose two lives or to inadvertently lose one's own life in trying to save another.

So, my question is, does it pay to be good? I think one can be too honest. One has to think about themselves, as well. Being too honest or honest to a fault, I would define it as, "honest to a fault means they will inconvenience themselves or cost themselves money and opportunity in order to he helpful, loyal and transparent." Sure, being helpful, loyal and transparent is good, but there are limits if it is too costly for oneself. In other words, being good comes at a price.

As for Christians, we hear that Jesus was perfect. I like to think this, but I'm not sure how he dealt with all of his situations he encountered. Sometimes, I hit these situations and do not have an answer myself. I give money to people who beg on the streets. Some of them look like they can use it. I rather give them food or clothing, but I've found they rather have money. This makes me suspicious. Helping at the food service or giving to Salvation Army is fine, but they too, aren't as eager to collect what you have to give them. Thus, I seek help from others more knowing.

I believe in socialism. I think that the state should ensure every citizen a job and a certain base income. I also believe in a public healthcare system that is part private and involves private enterprises through state subsidies. We shouldn't have poverty in such a rich and highly developed country as ours. The answer is state planning that includes private companies in the plan, like when Roosevelt put people back to work and ended The Depression. Private charity is good, but the state can create a system that does more than just give people money. If the right agenda is followed we can give everyone a job that pays for health insurance from a company that is subsidized by the government to help the poor.

 

[JJ50]

I think we should all try to be decent people and do what we can to help others as we go through life. Religion certainly doesn't always make you a good person, especially who are extreme in their beliefs.

 

[james bond]

Love that show! Seen every episode. Chuck summed up Jimmy correctly when describing him as someone "who does all the wrong things for the right reasons."

I liked BB better, but BCS has its moments. Both Jimmy and Chuck are strong characters and the show is good at making you get to know them well. That said, it's like their relationship or maybe it's their relationship with their parents is leading them to disaster. Chuck has done some vicious backstabbing and he wants Jimmy out of the lawyer business and on his terms. We know it ends up this way, too, but what happens to Chuck? Kim? Will there be more BB characters? (No need to reply. Just rhetorical. Just sayin'.)

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No. You're avoiding the question. Bye Kilgore.

Bye. Work on your reading comprehension for next time.

 

[james bond]

No, his answer was succinct; doing good is it's own reward. It's that warm, fuzzy feeling you get knowing that you've made a fellow human being's day better. If you're "good" only because you expect a reward in return then you're not really good after all.

I just wanted to hear it from him that was what he meant. With Christianity, doing good or being altruistic isn't enough to get to heaven. Maybe it gets you to the new earth. Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head with your previous post. Being good is its own reward.

 

[james bond]

This OP is a great example of why you should probably dump Christianity.

"Good," or "being good" is far too subjective a subject and it seems like you're struggling to comprehend the concept or that you've turned it into something no one understands.

Some people think rape and murder are good, and it pays off for them too.

I doubt people think rape and murder are good. Both are the worst and deserve the lower depths of hell.

Not only that it seems like you're the one struggling to understand the concept. You're a horrible poster.

 

[james bond]

Well James Bond you certainly have had a long career as 007 and I recall some of your flicks...

But seriously I think all of us are affected by others and their actions.. My family has a long history in my community going back over a hundred years and I can see over time how the actions of my predecessors have shaped my own history

I think there is a kind of action/reaction in human affairs that plays itself out in our lives... Some call it "karma" and in the Gospel it mentions "by their fruits ye shall know them" also "that which ye sow so shall ye reap".

The Baha'i Writings also compare humanity to a tree...

The Blessed Beauty said: "All are the fruits of one tree and the leaves of one branch." He likened the world of existence to one tree and all the souls to leaves, blossoms and fruits. Therefore all the branches, leaves, blossoms and fruits must be in the utmost of freshness, and the bringing about of this delicacy and sweetness depends upon union and fellowship. Therefore they must assist each other with all their power and seek everlasting life. Thus the friends of God must manifest the mercy of the Compassionate Lord in the world of existence and must show forth the bounty of the visible and invisible King. They must purify their sight, and look upon mankind as the leaves, blossoms and fruits of the tree of creation, and must always be thinking of doing good to someone, of love, consideration, affection and assistance to somebody."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith -, p. 215

I like being good as its own reward which Father Heathen said. I've met people who did tremendous amounts, but that's it. Even Saint Theresa said she would like to help the people on earth from heaven. She's the prime example in my lifetime. Maybe she will be able to, but that's it. Being good is its own reward.

 

[james bond]

I believe in socialism. I think that the state should ensure every citizen a job and a certain base income. I also believe in a public healthcare system that is part private and involves private enterprises through state subsidies. We shouldn't have poverty in such a rich and highly developed country as ours. The answer is state planning that includes private companies in the plan, like when Roosevelt put people back to work and ended The Depression. Private charity is good, but the state can create a system that does more than just give people money. If the right agenda is followed we can give everyone a job that pays for health insurance from a company that is subsidized by the government to help the poor.

As I've said atheism leads to Communism. We do not need the government for this. That's why the church does so much to feed and clothe and provide comfort.