Does it really matter if we believe in God?

[Trailblazer]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately because I usually post to atheists and I have a lot of atheist friends who do not think it matters if we believe in God. After all, there is no proof that God exists, so it is just as logical to say God does not exist as t is to say that God exists. There is evidence that God exists, but no proof.

So why does it matter if we believe in God? Why is it so important, or is it? This is a question I would like other Baha’is to answer, but also Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any other religious adherents.

Of course atheists and agnostics can answer too.

The second part of this question is that if God matters as much as some believers say, then why do they live for the material world and all it has to offer? Why don’t they live for God instead of the world? Why don’t they follow the teachings of their religion regarding detachment and sacrifice? This is not meant to be a criticism; it is just something I am wondering about and something to get people thinking. I mean in the Tablet of the True Seeker Baha’is are enjoined by Baha’u’llah to regard the world as utter nothingness.

“Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 266

Notably, I do not participate in Baha’i activities so I do not know a lot about what other Baha’is think or do except what I read on forums, but most Baha’is I know seem to think I am too extreme in my views regarding detachment and sacrifice, as if I am some kind of ascetic.

Do I simply take this God stuff too seriously, or do others not take it seriously enough? What does God really expect of us? Does it even matter to God what we do? This question is for all believers, whether they have a religion or not.

A third part of this question is for believers. What do you think will be the repercussions of non-belief? By repercussions I mean what do you think will happen to nonbelievers after they die? Do you have a set belief about that? I sure don’t, but it is a big concern of mine and I have no real answers because it has not been spelled out in the scriptures of my religion, unless I am missing something. Maybe the Baha’is can fill me in if there is something I missed.

Finally, if it does not matter if we believe in God before we die, and we will all find out that God exists after we die, why even bother to believe in God? I mean most atheists I know live very moral lives, so they do not really need the teachings and laws of religions, so why does it matter if they believe in God before they die?

I have some personal reasons for asking these questions that might come out later.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe for this lifetime and for our species as humans it might matter in terms of teaching ignorance and the consequences of convincing people something's true when it's not.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't even think it makes any difference whatsoever because the universe is going to continue on as it always has long before we had appeared on the scene, and long after when humans will be gone.

 

[arthra]

Notably, I do not participate in Baha’i activities so I do not know a lot about what other Baha’is think or do except what I read on forums, but most Baha’is I know seem to think I am too extreme in my views regarding detachment and sacrifice, as if I am some kind of ascetic.

Allah'u'Abha Trailblazer! Good to read your posts...

One of important elements in my being a Baha'i has been the community... So I have a strong identification with the Baha'is where I live and in other communities. I have a precious 1941 book of Baha'i Prayers that belonged to the first Baha'is in my community. When I hold it all the memories of their contributions to the Faith flow through... Their love and sacrifice.

The other day my son and I visited a member of our community who is 102 years old! She has a four digit Baha'i number and worked with Hand of the Cause Dorothy Baker. There is so much she has yet to tell us.

When I recite the short obligatory prayer I also reaffirm some things...

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."

~ Bahá’u’lláh

Soooo does it really matter?

I think so.

- Art

 

[9-18-1]

"Belief" is not a virtue - it is a vice.

In the case of "believing" in the Abrahamic god, it is in vain - there was no historical Hebrew Moses and the Torah has many authors. If there was no potent god behind an alleged delivery from oppression, the entire Abrahamic pantheon is worshiping an impotent god based in "belief" which is precisely what we find.

This would explain... everything regarding why the planet is the way it is.

A better way to approach the god problem is simply asking questions: and not "does god exist" because 'god' here is limited to whatever the person associates with god.

A beautiful question to ask: what *is* god?
A more beautiful question: what *is not* god?

That last question naturally brings about a state of 'knowing' rather than 'believing'. If one had to choose: would one rather "believe" something to be true, and risk it not being true, or would one rather "know" for sure?

What is true may not be pleasant. (people "believe" pleasant things)
What is pleasant, may not be true. (people avoid hard truths)

The truth does not discriminate - it just *is*. Only the one who discriminates within themselves can not see things just the way they are.

 

[Trailblazer]

Allah'u'Abha Trailblazer! Good to read your posts...

One of important elements in my being a Baha'i has been the community... So I have a strong identification with the Baha'is where I live and in other communities. I have a precious 1941 book of Baha'i Prayers that belonged to the first Baha'is in my community. When I hold it all the memories of their contributions to the Faith flow through... Their love and sacrifice.

The other day my son and I visited a member of our community who is 102 years old! She has a four digit Baha'i number and worked with Hand of the Cause Dorothy Baker. There is so much she has yet to tell us.

When I recite the short obligatory prayer I also reaffirm some things...

"I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth. There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting."

~ Bahá’u’lláh

Soooo does it really matter?

I think so.

- Art

Thanks, you are an inspiration. I do not like to complain but to those whom much is given much is expected.

I know it matters because of that Short Obligatory Prayer but sometimes I lose sight of WHY it matters, and why do you think that is? The reason is because I look around me and I see people who live for the world of dust and I say, maybe that is what I should do instead of this... So maybe, just maybe it is because I have no contact with Baha'is other than a few on forums, and most of my contact with people is rather superficial, like at work... At least I have my husband though, a strong Baha'i who has been one for over 53 years.

Still, I am very intuitive and I listen a lot and I analyze what I hear, so I can SEE that most people live for the world and all it has to offer. It is no accident that Baha'u'llah wrote as much as He did about the world and how we should regard it as nothingness besides His Purpose. That is not difficult for me because I do not like the world, but the problem is that I have may responsibilities to tend to that involve the world, more than most people... This, and other personal problems take me away from any Baha'i activities I could be engaged in, so I just do the best I can online.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Belief" is not a virtue - it is a vice.

In the case of "believing" in the Abrahamic god, it is in vain - there was no historical Hebrew Moses and the Torah has many authors. If there was no potent god behind an alleged delivery from oppression, the entire Abrahamic pantheon is worshiping an impotent god based in "belief" which is precisely what we find.

This would explain... everything regarding why the planet is the way it is.

What is your evidence that Moses did not exist? If He didn't exist, and the entire Abrahamic pantheon is worshiping an impotent God based in "belief" then you are correct; this could very well explain why the world is the way it is, given about 55% of people are Muslims and Christians, and a much lesser number are Jews and Baha'is.

A better way to approach the god problem is simply asking questions: and not "does god exist" because 'god' here is limited to whatever the person associates with god.

A beautiful question to ask: what *is* god?
A more beautiful question: what *is not* god?

That last question naturally brings about a state of 'knowing' rather than 'believing'. If one had to choose: would one rather "believe" something to be true, and risk it not being true, or would one rather "know" for sure?

How do you think you can KNOW what God is or is not?

What is true may not be pleasant. (people "believe" pleasant things)
What is pleasant, may not be true. (people avoid hard truths)

And what is true is not necessarily pleasant. It might be pleasant for some and difficult for others. Belief in a God is not pleasant for me, it never has been.

The truth does not discriminate - it just *is*. Only the one who discriminates within themselves can not see things just the way they are.

How do you think we can know the *truth*?
How do you think we can know things just the way they are? Everyone is going to see things differently, according to their own experiences.

 

[Trailblazer]

"Belief" is not a virtue - it is a vice.

In the case of "believing" in the Abrahamic god, it is in vain - there was no historical Hebrew Moses and the Torah has many authors. If there was no potent god behind an alleged delivery from oppression, the entire Abrahamic pantheon is worshiping an impotent god based in "belief" which is precisely what we find.

This would explain... everything regarding why the planet is the way it is.

A better way to approach the god problem is simply asking questions: and not "does god exist" because 'god' here is limited to whatever the person associates with god.

A beautiful question to ask: what *is* god?
A more beautiful question: what *is not* god?

That last question naturally brings about a state of 'knowing' rather than 'believing'. If one had to choose: would one rather "believe" something to be true, and risk it not being true, or would one rather "know" for sure?

What is true may not be pleasant. (people "believe" pleasant things)
What is pleasant, may not be true. (people avoid hard truths)

The truth does not discriminate - it just *is*. Only the one who discriminates within themselves can not see things just the way they are.

Look at that, I just noticed that you and I joined this forum on the same day, what are the chances of that?

 

[sun rise]

So why does it matter if we believe in God?

To me it does not matter. Actions matter not words.

Why don’t they live for God instead of the world? Why don’t they follow the teachings of their religion regarding detachment and sacrifice?

Very few have more than a superficial belief. Or at least enough of a belief to actually motivate actions of a positive kind.

 

[Trailblazer]

To me it does not matter. Actions matter not words.

I agree that actions speak louder than words, and louder than beliefs.

Very few have more than a superficial belief. Or at least enough of a belief to actually motivate actions of a positive kind.

I think you are right about that. Judging by actions, one would have to question whether some people who profess belief really believe at all.

 

[9-18-1]

What is your evidence that Moses did not exist? If He didn't exist, and the entire Abrahamic pantheon is worshiping an impotent God based in "belief" then you are correct; this could very well explain why the world is the way it is, given about 55% of people are Muslims and Christians, and a much lesser number are Jews and Baha'is.

The first problem is: what *is* the believers' "evidence" for their assertions? Assertions include: holy books and idols. One has to establish this first.
However in the interim, I have a number of books which reconstruct a valid (insofar as archeological evidence and reliefs support) history of the "Israelite" people which, invariably, refutes any such historical Hebrew Moses (who was actually the Egyptian Akhunatun) having led enslaved Israelites out of bondage. While there is an historical event (two, actually) involving masses of people leaving Egypt, it was not performed under the power of a potent god.

The books are:

The Bible Unearthed:
Archeology's new vision of ancient Israel and the origin of its sacred texts
(Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman)

Who Wrote the Bible?
(Richard Elliot Friedman)

The Bible with Sources Revealed
(Richard Elliot Friedman)

Fundamentally there is only one "problem": was there a potent god who liberated?

If the answer is no, Judaism is false (it is evolved Canaanite)
Christianity is false (messiah complex imagined by those who "believe" they require one)
Islam is false (idol of Jesus "mercy upon mankind" savior complex inherited by Christian Arabs later imbuing a new Arabian prophet with the same).

However...

How do you think you can KNOW what God is or is not?

The problem begins with the word 'God'. What is this? Each person projects his/her own understanding of 'God' based on a number of factors.. for example, the god of the Jews delivers those who are in bondage out of slavery. Suppose one is not suffering and/or enslaved? Only one who is suffering/enslaved could project/rely on a god to "rescue" them.

Better questions are:

What *is* god?
What *is* god *not*?

And these yield much more fruits. For example, I don't "know" what god is, but I "know" what god is not. And knowing what god is not is enough to free ones self from ones own binds (often induced by "belief"-based projections of god that writes books and/or sends messengers to be idols unto the masses).

And what is true is not necessarily pleasant. It might be pleasant for some and difficult for others. Belief in a God is not pleasant for me, it never has been.

How do you think we can know the *truth*?
How do you think we can know things just the way they are? Everyone is going to see things differently, according to their own experiences.

It is *not* about thinking anything, it is about "knowing". Surely one can "think" they "know" something, but this is still not knowing - it is thinking one knows. Knowing does not require thinking - only to arrive at knowledge is thinking required.

Seeing things the way they are requires absolving ones self of their identity: "I am..." what? A Jew/Christian/Muslim/Atheist etc. No - being is simply 'I am'. When in this state - no identity - everything just is, just as one is: I am. This is the same name "God" gives Moses on the top of the mountain. This is not to point to the Hebrew mythologies as authoritative (they are man-made) but the story is written that way for a reason - the essence of being is 'I am' and, in this, one liberates themselves.

Everyone sees according only to their identity and past experiences. However, past experiences are generated by whatever identity one had at the time. In this way, life is like a casual stroll down a hallway of "impressions" - however the impressions themselves say something about the observer, because it is the nature of the observer which led them to such impressions. In this way too: if 'I am' is pure light, the "identity" is the lamp shade (which filters the light) into whatever the characteristics of the shade itself is. The identity is like this and serves this role.

To borrow from Christianity even: the body is a vessel (true) and one *is* the light of the world (also true). That doesn't mean JESUS is LORD (Christian idol worship), it means one is constantly looking at ones own nature given they are the light that lights the world anyways (whether or not one recognizes it is irrelevant). This is why the light of the body is contained in the eye - if it is single (no separation) one sees things "just the way they are".

This vision helps one eliminate all that god is *not*.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

First, I'm going to start off by speaking in broad generalities. That means there's going to be exceptions, and there's going to need to be explanations of the complexities that are missing.

Yes, believing in God matters. I'll start off by saying that believing in a personal God matters, because we cannot experience the love, justice, and mercy of God, much less his requirements for our behavior, if he is simply a force or non-involved entity. To miss out on this is a horrible loss. I truly feel sorry for those who, through no fault of their own, simply cannot sense this sort of God.

If this cannot be managed, the next best thing is to believe in a kind of impersonal Source, be it Brahman or Tao or nameless. This too is far better than nothing, because one would believe in something greater, in service to that which underlies the entire universe. There is just something incredibly healthy about this, and I believe that a person will have a much better and more balanced life because of it.

But there are those who simply cannot believe. They do not sense God, and the arguments for his/her/its existence are not persuasive for them. It is not as if they are choosing to rebel -- this is not a choice for them. Some of these choose to live good moral lives, despite the fact that they do not believe in something greater demanding it of them. I am reminded of the atheist in Camus' "The Plague" who wanted to be a Saint even though there was no God. A priest I had the good fortune to now called this, "Living AS THOUGH God existed." It is less, but it is not without merit. In so many ways, we love God by loving our neighbor as ourselves. I think every time an Atheist shows love for another human being, he is expressing love for God, although he doesn't know it.

And then there are those, theists, pantheists and panentheists, and atheists, who choose to live as though there is no God. Their behavior is lawless. Their motto is, it's okay as long as I don't get caught. For them, others are there for their personal benefit. Such people only act morally if there are social and penal consequences. I shudder for such people. They may *say* they believe in God, but do they really? If they do, they certainly don't care about him.

 

[ManSinha]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately because I usually post to atheists and I have a lot of atheist friends who do not think it matters if we believe in God. After all, there is no proof that God exists, so it is just as logical to say God does not exist as t is to say that God exists. There is evidence that God exists, but no proof.

So why does it matter if we believe in God? Why is it so important, or is it? This is a question I would like other Baha’is to answer, but also Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any other religious adherents.

Of course atheists and agnostics can answer too.

The second part of this question is that if God matters as much as some believers say, then why do they live for the material world and all it has to offer? Why don’t they live for God instead of the world? Why don’t they follow the teachings of their religion regarding detachment and sacrifice? This is not meant to be a criticism; it is just something I am wondering about and something to get people thinking. I mean in the Tablet of the True Seeker Baha’is are enjoined by Baha’u’llah to regard the world as utter nothingness.

“Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 266

Notably, I do not participate in Baha’i activities so I do not know a lot about what other Baha’is think or do except what I read on forums, but most Baha’is I know seem to think I am too extreme in my views regarding detachment and sacrifice, as if I am some kind of ascetic.

Do I simply take this God stuff too seriously, or do others not take it seriously enough? What does God really expect of us? Does it even matter to God what we do? This question is for all believers, whether they have a religion or not.

A third part of this question is for believers. What do you think will be the repercussions of non-belief? By repercussions I mean what do you think will happen to nonbelievers after they die? Do you have a set belief about that? I sure don’t, but it is a big concern of mine and I have no real answers because it has not been spelled out in the scriptures of my religion, unless I am missing something. Maybe the Baha’is can fill me in if there is something I missed.

Finally, if it does not matter if we believe in God before we die, and we will all find out that God exists after we die, why even bother to believe in God? I mean most atheists I know live very moral lives, so they do not really need the teachings and laws of religions, so why does it matter if they believe in God before they die?

I have some personal reasons for asking these questions that might come out later.

It really does not - because a vast majority of those who do believe, according to one source, believe for the reason that they want to be "saved" or for there to be some meaning in the afterlife. If those questions did not haunt you - may be you would still believe and may be you would not. The idea of a god is a stepping stone in some instances - as @IndigoChild5559 mentioned - the concept of a personal god - or Ishta Devta is very much a thing in the Indian subcontinent

 

[danieldemol]

To me it does not matter. Actions matter not words.



Very few have more than a superficial belief. Or at least enough of a belief to actually motivate actions of a positive kind.

This is what I believe as a liberal. The justice of God seems to me to demand that those who do righteous works fare better in the afterlife than those who believe but have no good works to show for it.

 

[9-18-1]

First, I'm going to start off by speaking in broad generalities. That means there's going to be exceptions, and there's going to need to be explanations of the complexities that are missing.

I will play devil's advocate (or perhaps adversary).

Yes, believing in God matters. I'll start off by saying that believing in a personal God matters, because we cannot experience the love, justice, and mercy of God, much less his requirements for our behavior, if he is simply a force or non-involved entity. To miss out on this is a horrible loss. I truly feel sorry for those who, through no fault of their own, simply cannot sense this sort of God.

Emboldened the problematic statement.

i. presumption: god is loving, just, and merciful

Whence this presumption? Love, justice and mercy (the two former being antithesis to one another) are all human qualities. Why export this to anything of divine origin? This is a problem because it is self-degrading: human beings are not capable of generating such things "without" need for a god. It dehumanizes something that is otherwise human.

And this is precisely what religion does: dehumanizes. Which god does one yield to? If of a wholly individual/personal God, one is merely projecting the qualities they themselves imagine such a God to have, without questioning whether or not these things are actually what the individual is themselves deprived of.

Example: Islam means "peace" and Allah leads one to peace. Could it be that Muslims are projecting their god as being the very thing that they are deprived of, therefor seeking it in Allah? Can you see the disaster in this?

When a problem acts as a solution, this is cancer. Are "belief"-based institutions any different?

If this cannot be managed, the next best thing is to believe in a kind of impersonal Source, be it Brahman or Tao or nameless. This too is far better than nothing, because one would believe in something greater, in service to that which underlies the entire universe. There is just something incredibly healthy about this, and I believe that a person will have a much better and more balanced life because of it.

The problem is still "belief". If one had a choice to "believe" what they want to be true (but risk it not being true) or "know" simply what is true (regardless of how unpleasant it may be to them) what does one choose? This is the same dichotomy of those who pursue "beliefs" ("belief"-based institutions) and those who pursue simply knowing.

Which is more apt to produce a state of inner peace long-term, "believing" or "knowing"?

But there are those who simply cannot believe.

I am this, so will go line-for-line for maximum contrast. I am this way naturally: "belief" is always invariably replaced by something better - "knowing" how/why my previous "beliefs" were actually wrong.

They do not sense God, and the arguments for his/her/its existence are not persuasive for them.

It is not that "God" is not sensed - it is just not imagined as "belief" would temporarily require. This is not to say the imagination is to be faulted: it is required for creation.

But it is not required for "God", as even the Abrahamic one did not "believe" anything into existence - simply "be" and it was. There is no room/place for "belief" here, only understanding/wisdom (truth) as to how "creation" works. You can't "believe" a machine into existence, you have to build it such that it works according to laws.

Studying the laws of the cosmos (ie. science) give a much more profound insight into the nature of "God" than any "belief" system. In fact, these two worldviews are precisely at the root of the global conflict presently.

It is not as if they are choosing to rebel -- this is not a choice for them.

Yes it is a choice - choosing not to "believe", but rather "know". The problem comes in when other people don't understand that things can be "known" and/or they are afraid of "known" things because they contradict the others' "beliefs". From this you have conflict: people trying to protect their world views *and*, if one is identified with/as their world view, any undermining of such is taken as offense/personally and war manifests.

Please note this is only a product of "belief"-based worldviews. Worldviews that reject "belief" entirely do not succumb to this eventuality of bloodshed that is not instigated by "believers".

Some of these choose to live good moral lives, despite the fact that they do not believe in something greater demanding it of them.

Some also reject the falsified notion of "morality", especially objective morality centered around a god/book/idol. This is not morality, but a perversion of it. I do not need to be taught not to kill others - I feel more inclined to teach "believers" why not to, as they are the ones doing it. I don't call for spilling of blood, I call for its end. Unfortunately, that is all "believers" reduce themselves into - fighting in perpetuity based on one man's "belief" vs. another man's "belief". "Believers" see this as the cosmic war of good vs. evil, but this battle is actually only internal and not external. The external is the product of the internal: when one "believes" he knows good from evil, an atrocity usually follows. See any war lord conqueror as an example, and their "armies" of "believers".

I am reminded of the atheist in Camus' "The Plague" who wanted to be a Saint even though there was no God. A priest I had the good fortune to now called this, "Living AS THOUGH God existed." It is less, but it is not without merit. In so many ways, we love God by loving our neighbor as ourselves. I think every time an Atheist shows love for another human being, he is expressing love for God, although he doesn't know it.

So an atheist need not necessarily outright state "no god(s) exists". For example, I don't "believe" anything, but know creation happens based on the relationship between two polarities and their singular result (man and woman have a child). I know this is the basis of many "religious" theologies / systems, but these are symbols. As a man when I interact with a woman I recognize she is the other half of the polarity: the mother of all the living (which is actually what the Hebrew bible denotes women in general). As such, She (I symbolically treat the polarity as Deity, but without any form whatsoever) is already Divine by her nature.

This is why I am in opposition to "belief"-based institutions such as Islam which denigrates the women into having no divinity, but merely a thing to serve Men. This disregard for the feminine half of Deity is what I find to be responsible for thousands of years of warfare: coveting of women and and slaving them.

I therefor agree with the late Christopher Hitchens when he suggested the health of a nation can be determined by the degree to which the women are empowered. This is 100% true and, without realizing it, he ended up solving the Edenic mystery despite his atheism (he was a good soul).

And then there are those, theists, pantheists and panentheists, and atheists, who choose to live as though there is no God. Their behavior is lawless. Their motto is, it's okay as long as I don't get caught. For them, others are there for their personal benefit. Such people only act morally if there are social and penal consequences. I shudder for such people. They may *say* they believe in God, but do they really? If they do, they certainly don't care about him.

Knowing good and evil means you can see both and how one is "feeding" (off) the other. In the example you just gave, who are these people exploiting?

The "believers" who continue to populate the very institutions *protecting* such people. Look at the Vatican; look at the House of Islam - you will find nothing but powerful entities that secular governments can not touch because of the "protections" built around them. Look at what happens to people who criticize the prophet of Islam, who was (by many standards) a pedophile? Islam thus is a 'state' which protects pedophilia. So who is to blame? The "believers" "believe" that a pedophile man is Allah's closest companion.

See the *real* mess the world is in? All based on falsifying one Jewish prophet as having delivered people from (what is actually their own state of) suffering.

However, can their be freedom without bondage? How to know/taste true freedom if not having been deprived of it? This is one of the mysteries of good and evil: the heels of the former perpetually crush the skulls of the latter. Everything is always balanced - the imbalance is fundamentally internal and relative to ones own being.

 

[Jumi]

It doesn't matter what we believe, it's what we do as consequence of our belief that matters. Also beliefs that can't be objectively proven aren't valued by people who don't understand them or see the value in them.

 

[9-18-1]

It doesn't matter what we believe, it's what we do as consequence of our belief that matters. Also beliefs that can't be objectively proven aren't valued by people who don't understand them or see the value in them.

But what informs consequences (action) if not based in the corresponding belief which lead to such action/consequence?

For example, a jihadist "believes" he is paying his own sins, the sins of his family and loved ones and will be receiving 72 virgin women in "heaven" for doing one act: die in the cause of Allah by blowing up as many "worshipers" of the enemies of Allah as possible.

In this jihadist's heart he is doing the greatest thing he can for himself, his family and Allah (and sincerely "believes" this to be true) but in reality he just committed an atrocity which impacts the lives of *all* families members that day who lost a loved one.

This is not a hypothetical: it is a daily occurrence.

This is one of the many reasons why (add it to the pile) "belief" is not a virtue - it is a tool of enslavement.

 

[Jumi]

But what informs consequences (action) if not based in the corresponding belief which lead to such action/consequence?

For example, a jihadist "believes" he is paying his own sins, the sins of his family and loved ones and will be receiving 72 virgin women in "heaven" for doing one act: die in the cause of Allah by blowing up as many "worshipers" of the enemies of Allah as possible.

I think many of them just want suicide because they can't handle life and it's complexities, so they want to run away. They just use the excuse given to them by fanatics and if they can spread misery to people they hate, they see it as murdering two birds with one stone.

This is one of the many reasons why (add it to the pile) "belief" is not a virtue - it is a tool of enslavement.

We are thinking along the same lines. What we do means more than belief.

 

[9-18-1]

I think many of them just want suicide because they can't handle life and it's complexities, so they want to run away. They just use the excuse given to them by fanatics and if they can spread misery to people they hate, they see it as murdering two birds with one stone.

You are right - and this is what religious institutions manufacture for the sole purpose of (later) exploiting. That is not to say religions begin as/for this (or any other illicit) reason, but this is what they have become: misery manufacturing machines that manufacture misery, then exploit it.

We are thinking along the same lines. What we do means more than belief.

It is overwhelmingly the "belief"-based acts (almost invariably justified by a "belief" in god and/or communication with one) which are most reckless.

 

[MJFlores]

So why does it matter if we believe in God? Why is it so important, or is it?

Yes it matters if we believe in God.
The reason is simple - His Son Jesus Christ is coming Luke 18:8
and those who will be saved will be revealed on that day.
The rest of humanity will be left behind and will witness how the world will end.
If that is not important, then I don't know what is.Luke 17:30-35

The second part of this question is that if God matters as much as some believers say, then why do they live for the material world and all it has to offer? Why don’t they live for God instead of the world? Why don’t they follow the teachings of their religion regarding detachment and sacrifice?

Your question reminds me of the Lord Jesus Christ prayer to God. John 17:9-24

The true Christians do not crave for riches, nor they love money which is the root of all evil
Riches are things that would divert their attention in serving the Master.
Since they know that the world is about to end, why would they crave for things that are destined for destruction?
While they are still on this world their hope is in God and their eyes look toward heaven.
While living on earth, they will love, praise and worship the one true God and his Son Jesus Christ
They will live godly lives, avoid sin, love their enemies and their neighbors
Should death come first, their hope is preserved and their names are already written in the books in heaven.

Do I simply take this God stuff too seriously, or do others not take it seriously enough? What does God really expect of us? Does it even matter to God what we do?

God wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth 1 Timothy 2:3-4

A third part of this question is for believers. What do you think will be the repercussions of non-belief? By repercussions I mean what do you think will happen to nonbelievers after they die? Do you have a set belief about that?

No opinions just the Bible

Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Finally, if it does not matter if we believe in God before we die, and we will all find out that God exists after we die, why even bother to believe in God? I mean most atheists I know live very moral lives, so they do not really need the teachings and laws of religions, so why does it matter if they believe in God before they die?

At the day of Judgement, people will tell the Lord Jesus what they did for him:

1. That they performed miracles using his name
2. That they prophesied using his name
3. That they exorcised demons using his name

And Jesus has a ready reply - "I never knew you." Matthew 7:21-23
These people are "Christians" but they are going to the lake of fire.

What are chances of those who are unbelievers and those who are atheists?
Their chances are much less, I'm afraid. Remember Revelation 21:8 above?

To put this simpler mankind by itself deserves the second death. Ecclesiastes 7:20

A last minute rush of an atheist to a theist is futile and will not help him reach heaven.
First of all, what kind of god did he believe? one of the 300,000,000 Hindu gods?
the Trinity developed in 325 AD and completed in 380 AD?
which among the 2 branches of Islam denominations did he believed in?
which among the 40,000 denominations of Christianity did he got the idea of God?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately because I usually post to atheists and I have a lot of atheist friends who do not think it matters if we believe in God. After all, there is no proof that God exists, so it is just as logical to say God does not exist as t is to say that God exists. There is evidence that God exists, but no proof.

So why does it matter if we believe in God? Why is it so important, or is it? This is a question I would like other Baha’is to answer, but also Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any other religious adherents.

Of course atheists and agnostics can answer too.

I consider religion as a class of hobby. Like other hobbies, it can be very important and meaningful for its participants, but at the same time, like other hobbies, it's entirely optional.

The second part of this question is that if God matters as much as some believers say, then why do they live for the material world and all it has to offer? Why don’t they live for God instead of the world? Why don’t they follow the teachings of their religion regarding detachment and sacrifice? This is not meant to be a criticism; it is just something I am wondering about and something to get people thinking. I mean in the Tablet of the True Seeker Baha’is are enjoined by Baha’u’llah to regard the world as utter nothingness.

“Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 266

Notably, I do not participate in Baha’i activities so I do not know a lot about what other Baha’is think or do except what I read on forums, but most Baha’is I know seem to think I am too extreme in my views regarding detachment and sacrifice, as if I am some kind of ascetic.

Do I simply take this God stuff too seriously, or do others not take it seriously enough? What does God really expect of us? Does it even matter to God what we do? This question is for all believers, whether they have a religion or not.

It does seem to me that theists generally don't seem to live as if they actually believe what they say is true.

A third part of this question is for believers. What do you think will be the repercussions of non-belief? By repercussions I mean what do you think will happen to nonbelievers after they die? Do you have a set belief about that? I sure don’t, but it is a big concern of mine and I have no real answers because it has not been spelled out in the scriptures of my religion, unless I am missing something. Maybe the Baha’is can fill me in if there is something I missed.

Finally, if it does not matter if we believe in God before we die, and we will all find out that God exists after we die, why even bother to believe in God? I mean most atheists I know live very moral lives, so they do not really need the teachings and laws of religions, so why does it matter if they believe in God before they die?

I have some personal reasons for asking these questions that might come out later.

Personally, I'd need some sort of indication that there's even a mechanism for us to "survive death" before I'd worry about what happens to us after we die.

Once that hurdle has been cleared, the next hurdle would be which version of an afterlife to accept as correct. It's pretty easy to make up a hypothetical afterlife where non-belief is rewarded and belief is punished, and there are lots of incompatible ideas about afterlives out their already, so for a theist to argue that their particular belief will be rewarded in the afterlife, they would need to justify why their particular belief is better supported than all the others.