Does Judaism have Doctrine of Original Sin and if not why does Christianity?

[Sleeppy]

How does the curse on Jeconiah (and his children) relate?

Spiritual corruptibility and physical mortality are both derived from Adam. You inherit any number of diseases and ailments from your parents.

 

[CMike]

How does the curse on Jeconiah (and his children) relate?

Spiritual corruptibility and physical mortality are both derived from Adam. You inherit any number of diseases and ailments from your parents.

As I stated if the children aren't evil and become good then they aren't punished.

 

[Sleeppy]

Genesis 6:3
And God saith, 'My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they are flesh.'


You can find this stated any number of ways throughout the Bible.

 

[CMike]

Genesis 6:3
And God saith, 'My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they are flesh.'


You can find this stated any number of ways throughout the Bible.

The whole passages says

3. And the Lord said, "Let My spirit not quarrel forever concerning man, because he is also flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years

And they had all that time to repent. If they repented there would have been no flood. However, they had 120 years to do so, and they didn't.

Genesis - Chapter 6 (Parshah Berei**** and Noach) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

 

[Sleeppy]

As I stated if the children aren't evil and become good then they aren't punished.

AIDs, for example, is transferrable to infants even before birth. Alcoholism. Sickle cell. Diabetes. Asthma.. Even addictions are transferrable. No amount of goodness has been able to reverse these types of genetic punishments, thus far.

 

[CMike]

AIDs, for example, is transferrable to infants even before birth. Alcoholism. Sickle cell. Diabetes. Asthma.. Even addictions are transferrable. No amount of goodness has been able to reverse these types of genetic punishments, thus far.

And?

 

[outhouse]

It's one of those interesting distinguishing things about Christianity and Judaism. As far as I know there is no concept or doctrine of original sin in Judaism yet there is one in Christianity.

Given the close ties that Christianity has with Judaism at least in terms of its origins, why is such a crucial doctrine missing in Judaism? Where did it come from, how did it develop and were there those of the Jewish community who believed in such a doctrine or still do?

Because a different culture had their way with another culture religion.

Christianity absorbed many religious practices and mythology of the first century to male it more appealing to the masses.

 

[Sleeppy]

And?

Remember to be consistent. Don't ignore reality.


The entire Jewish religion is based on inheritances. Curses were passed, and blessings were also passed. There are 12 distinct tribes. The priests are all Levites. The kings are supposed to descend solely from David. To be considered a natural Jew, one must have a Jewish mother.

The Torah details the annihilations of complete civilizations, without acceptance of repentance. The firstborns of Egypt were punished according to their own sins? The sins of their forefathers? Or the Pharaoh?

To this day, certain Jews will mention the curse on Jeconiah as a disqualifier of Joseph's lineage. If I remember correctly, you are one of them. I didn't expect you to start understanding anything.

 

[Levite]

AIDs, for example, is transferrable to infants even before birth. Alcoholism. Sickle cell. Diabetes. Asthma.. Even addictions are transferrable. No amount of goodness has been able to reverse these types of genetic punishments, thus far.

Who says these things are punishments? They are tragic for the people they strike, but they are merely parts of nature. Not everything that happens in the world is the result of God directly and deliberately rewarding or punishing people. The world was created to be as it is.

The entire Jewish religion is based on inheritances. Curses were passed, and blessings were also passed. There are 12 distinct tribes. The priests are all Levites. The kings are supposed to descend solely from David. To be considered a natural Jew, one must have a Jewish mother.

This has nothing to do with sin.

The Torah details the annihilations of complete civilizations, without acceptance of repentance. The firstborns of Egypt were punished according to their own sins? The sins of their forefathers? Or the Pharaoh?

The Rabbis teach us that all the Egyptians that died were complicit in the enslavement and oppression of Israel. Those that were not complicit, and refused to aid in the enslavement and oppression of Israel were not struck down in the plagues. Many, in fact, left Egypt with the Israelites as part of the "mixed multitude," the non-Jewish portions of which subsequently became part of the Jewish People.

 

[Tumah]

It's one of those interesting distinguishing things about Christianity and Judaism. As far as I know there is no concept or doctrine of original sin in Judaism yet there is one in Christianity.

Given the close ties that Christianity has with Judaism at least in terms of its origins, why is such a crucial doctrine missing in Judaism? Where did it come from, how did it develop and were there those of the Jewish community who believed in such a doctrine or still do?

What specifically do you mean when you say "original sin"?

 

[Sleeppy]

Who says these things are punishments? They are tragic for the people they strike, but they are merely parts of nature. Not everything that happens in the world is the result of God directly and deliberately rewarding or punishing people. The world was created to be as it is.



This has nothing to do with sin.

The Rabbis teach us that all the Egyptians that died were complicit in the enslavement and oppression of Israel. Those that were not complicit, and refused to aid in the enslavement and oppression of Israel were not struck down in the plagues. Many, in fact, left Egypt with the Israelites as part of the "mixed multitude," the non-Jewish portions of which subsequently became part of the Jewish People.

What isn't apart of nature? You acknowledge that God is the creator, so how do you separate God from nature? How can you say that an effect is not the result of its cause? If it is evil, and "tragic", why is it being inflicted upon innocents?

Nothing differs between the Rabbis teaching and Exodus 11:5?
'And every firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne to the firstborn of the slave woman who is behind the millstones, and every firstborn animal.'

 

[Levite]

What isn't apart of nature? You acknowledge that God is the creator, so how do you separate God from nature? How can you say that an effect is not the result of its cause? If it is evil, and "tragic", why is it being inflicted upon innocents?

It's not being inflicted specifically. It's a condition of the universe. God is certainly responsible for making the universe the way that it is, but that doesn't mean that everything that happens to someone is being specifically directed at them by God for reasons of reward or punishment. The notion that everything happens to people because God directly causes it with specific intent to correlate to behavior is incredibly archaic. It's medieval.

Nothing differs between the Rabbis teaching and Exodus 11:5?
'And every firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne to the firstborn of the slave woman who is behind the millstones, and every firstborn animal.'

No. What the Rabbis teach is the fuller context.

 

[Tumah]

It's not being inflicted specifically. It's a condition of the universe. God is certainly responsible for making the universe the way that it is, but that doesn't mean that everything that happens to someone is being specifically directed at them by God for reasons of reward or punishment. The notion that everything happens to people because God directly causes it with specific intent to correlate to behavior is incredibly archaic. It's medieval

Its earlier then medieval.

Talmud Brachos 5a:
If a person sees suffering coming on him, he should search his deeds. If he didn't find any [sins], attribute it to wasting [time that should have been spent learning] Torah. If he attributed it but doesn't find [any wasted time], it is known that it is suffering [inflicted out] of love.

Eruchin 16b:
What is the extent of suffering? ... when they sew him clothing and it doesn't fit well...even if they intended to pour him hot [drink] and instead poured cold or cold and instead pored him hot...even if his tunic got turned inside out...even if he put his hand into his pocket to take out three [coins] and [only] two came out.

 

[Levite]

Its earlier then medieval.

Talmud Brachos 5a:
If a person sees suffering coming on him, he should search his deeds. If he didn't find any [sins], attribute it to wasting [time that should have been spent learning] Torah. If he attributed it but doesn't find [any wasted time], it is known that it is suffering [inflicted out] of love.

Eruchin 16b:
What is the extent of suffering? ... when they sew him clothing and it doesn't fit well...even if they intended to pour him hot [drink] and instead poured cold or cold and instead pored him hot...even if his tunic got turned inside out...even if he put his hand into his pocket to take out three [coins] and [only] two came out.

Yes, I am aware it is found in early Rabbinic theology also. But my point remains the same, in that our theology has evolved and become more complex and nuanced since then-- as have the theologies of many Christian and Muslim sects, who also shared that theology at one time or another.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

What specifically do you mean when you say "original sin"?

Original sin in Christianity is a doctrine that claims that due to Adam the entire world is under sin. That everyone is born with sin because of Adam and fall short of God.

 

[roger1440]

AIDs, for example, is transferrable to infants even before birth. Alcoholism. Sickle cell. Diabetes. Asthma.. Even addictions are transferrable. No amount of goodness has been able to reverse these types of genetic punishments, thus far.

The illnesses you had mentioned can happen to any organism. They are not limited to humans. Are other creatures subject to “original sin” also?

 

[roger1440]

"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them." (Ezekiel 18:20)

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them." (Ezekiel 18:20)

Does the use of the term righteousness mean different things in Christianity and Judaism?

 

[roger1440]

Does the use of the term righteousness mean different things in Christianity and Judaism?

Yes
"I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, by which the person who obeys them will live". (Ezekiel 20:11)

 

[Levite]

Does the use of the term righteousness mean different things in Christianity and Judaism?

I actually am not sure what it means in Christianity. In Judaism, though, it has mostly to do with leading a life of justice, compassion, and lovingkindness-- trying to foster justice in society, being compassionate to others, and generally acting from lovingkindness. And, if one is Jewish, with fulfillment of the commandments.