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Does Karma Exist
- Thread starter Draupadi
- Start date
How is that not the Dharmic concept? In any case, it does happen, unavoidably even. But not necessarily at a personal level, so maybe that was not what you expected.
Karma, ultimately, is a lot more like ecological awareness than the mystical force for revenge and justice that some people picture it as being.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I'm definitely in the minority here on RF, but no, I do not support ANY concept of Karma.
The only thing I will agree to is that actions have consequences. That being the case, claiming it is a "universal law" is about as meaningful as stridently claiming that water is wet.
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That sounds just about right to me, Ymir.
What reward are you referring to?
If you behave well out of virtue and good comes of it, then that's something I believe in. But if you behave well to manipulate the world into giving you a pony, then good luck.
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Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
I agree with this.
NewGuyOnTheBlock
Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
I observe that the Law of Reciprocity is a real thing. Even those who behave immorally, even if escaping human justice, tend to be very unhappy people and live unfulfilled lives or pay the consequences one way or the other. Fred Phelps, for example, spent his last days dying alone, ostracized from his family and excommunicated from the very monstrosity he'd created. In that sense, I'd have to say, yep, Karma gonna get'cha.
Draupadi
Active Member
I meant to differentiate between the consequences of our deeds and the Dharmic concept of reincarnation to reap what you have sown.
Well, I flat out doubt reincarnation, while it seems that even in Hinduism it isn't quite what the Kardecist Spiritists have taught me anyway.
But the bottom line is that we do reap what we sow, although usually not in a very direct or very personal way. So I am really not seeing the difference.
Draupadi
Active Member
LOL nothing like that Willamena. I meant if you hurt someone will one be equally hurt in return (just an example)? I have seen many people in my lives who haven't been punished for their wrongdoings. And some among them I know up close.
So sometimes I wonder will I be happier being bad? Well at least they are.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Even a cursory examination of life shows that such a balancing mechanism does not exist.
Expecting others to get a punishment from the world for misbehaving is just unkind (bad karma on your part).
Behaving badly because there is no punishment is just impractical. Doesn't win you or others anything.
Draupadi
Active Member
In that case Willamena then the Gods are doing worse things by punishing the sinners. Karma is supposed to be neutral. If I wish to harm someone if they didn't wrong me, only then I will suffer bad consequences.
As for living badly, I said that because many people didn't help me in my times of dire needs. But I forgive them and still help them out. And occasionally I regret it.
As for living badly, I said that because many people didn't help me in my times of dire needs. But I forgive them and still help them out. And occasionally I regret it.
Sam Harris has a short book about Lying that has some great examples.
Acting without consideration for others will earn one a reputation. Such a reputation will keep people inclined to good will and consideration away or at least unconfortable around one.
It is just common sense. But it is not mystical, and it certainly does not happen in that "equivalent return" way some people naively expect.
Actually, Karma is more meaningful when it is rewarding. Say, helping in raising literacy levels in a community earns a lot in the way of social integration, economic perspectives and lots of other benefits, including reduced crime levels.
Acting without consideration for others will earn one a reputation. Such a reputation will keep people inclined to good will and consideration away or at least unconfortable around one.
It is just common sense. But it is not mystical, and it certainly does not happen in that "equivalent return" way some people naively expect.
Actually, Karma is more meaningful when it is rewarding. Say, helping in raising literacy levels in a community earns a lot in the way of social integration, economic perspectives and lots of other benefits, including reduced crime levels.
I don't believe anyone gets punished by gods for sinning, just by their own mind (guilt).
Behaving well is the natural Way. It accomplishes things. It accomplishes the world. And yes, karma is neutral: the only reward is a proper functioning world.
I don't know what Willamena will say to that. I will say that harm is harm. It causes damage, and damage has a way of spreading around.
Past history or even deserving better does not really figure into it.
Neither do gods, IMO.
You shouldn't expect them to sow their just desserts, for many good reasons - most of which relate to the fact that people lead complex lives these days and are often protected well beyond their actual merits.
That does not really mean that there is no harm coming their way, though. It may well mean that others are paying the damages on their stead, for instance.
But if you insist on interpreting Karma as being an assurance of every person reaping what they sow, then I guess I don't believe in that either. I don't usually think in terms of individual persons.
