Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Is the experience of spirituality devalued when put into words?
If so, why and/or how?
If so, why and/or how?
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Does language devalue spiritual...
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
Neuropteron
Active Member
Hi,
According to Pauls comments on God's words, I think that words are important to convey spiritual thoughts.
For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper tha any two-edged sword and pierces enven to the dividing of soul and spirit,... and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. Heb 4:12
Solomon commented however on the importance of saying the right thing at the right time.
Prov 25:11
As apples of gold in silver carvings is a word spoken at the right time for it.
The option are limited, telepathy is not generally practised, and I don't think we would get far with grunts and growling.
Cheers.
Maybe some people, some smart enlighten people have a flair for it.
Not so enlighten people like myself latch onto those words looking for a way to express something wonderful we've experienced.
Not so hard to express what one has experienced. However, to express it in such a way that is meaningful to another feels impossible sometimes.
Consider art. I think in most cases the artist is trying to express something spiritual. When it comes to art I'm a dunce. I see colors and images. Whatever meaning meant to be conveyed by the artist is lost on me.
Words have approximately the same relationship to experiences of any kind as the symbols on a map have to the objects they represent. Words no more devalue spiritual experiences than map symbols devalue their terrain.
Having said that, many people confuse the map with the terrain. The word with the reality. And that is just as true of spiritual people when they think about spiritual things as it is true of secular people when they think about secular things.
And, yes, confusing words for the reality does indeed devalue spiritual experiences.
Just my two cents.
Having said that, many people confuse the map with the terrain. The word with the reality. And that is just as true of spiritual people when they think about spiritual things as it is true of secular people when they think about secular things.
And, yes, confusing words for the reality does indeed devalue spiritual experiences.
Just my two cents.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Art is a great expression of spirituality, true. I love me some art but for some reason can't seem to concentrate to work on it. If/When I do, that would be my spiritual outlet. Writing most definitely.
I wonder if it's not so much as express it as for it to be meaningful for others but how we want others to see our work. So, if someone isn't reacting to our expectations, then they figure that someone doesn't value their spiritual experiences however/if ever expressed.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
Words will always be limiting. They are not the experience and can have variation in subjective meanings to different people. Words will always fall short. That said, they are the way we communicate to each other an they do try to approximate the experience. We just have to remember their limitations. We can react very differently to words compared to others.
Words charged with and inspired by Truth to tell of spiritual experiences have a special power to uplift or enlighten. Their value will not be diminished for the speaker or writer by sharing them; likewise, their value as a shared narrative will be determined strictly by the hearer or reader.
That said, I believe it was Jesus who cautioned devotees to use discernment when relating their experiences. "Thou shall not cast thy pearls before swine," he said (and Masters of all religions say the equivalent). "Swine" are folks (temporarily) enveloped by such a thick veil of spiritual ignorance that it would be like shouting at a deaf person. Rude and unhelpful.
That said, I believe it was Jesus who cautioned devotees to use discernment when relating their experiences. "Thou shall not cast thy pearls before swine," he said (and Masters of all religions say the equivalent). "Swine" are folks (temporarily) enveloped by such a thick veil of spiritual ignorance that it would be like shouting at a deaf person. Rude and unhelpful.
stvdv
Veteran Member
It's even advised by Masters to NOT to speak about one's spiritual experiences, because some people mock your experience; mocking part is bad
Salty Booger
Royal Crown Cola (RC)
One man walks in the forest and knows all the names of all trees, undergrowth, and animals.
Another man walks in the forest and knows the forest.
That would mean that 'the experience of spirituality' is a purely emotional experience and devoid of information / intellectual content, would it not?
chinu
chinu
For example: Its water that cool down one's thirst. Its NOT the word "Water"
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Do words fall short because of expectation of others to understand them?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That would mean the choice to express one's spirituality isn't dependent on one's own spiritual conduit but based on other people's reactions whatever they may be?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Both can express their perspective-one by identifying the details and aspects of the forest while the other the way the forests in important as a whole. The details of beauty or the vision of the big picture. Either or.
But to express them in words...
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Well, I was watching a TED Talk awhile back and it was talking about emotional and spiritual experiences as one. He was saying that the part of what we call our soul, heart, and emotions are part of the limbic brain. The limbic brain doesn't have compacity for language; so, we're stuck with gut feelings and quisi-accurate interpretations (and filling in the gaps). So, when someone asks us, say, our spiritual experiences we literally don't know what to say. It's a neurological thing in addition to, of course, culture, and how people feel others will react to their "jewel." Other things that may play a part is, of course, personal preference. Also, personal bias about other people because they are, say, a westerner, atheists, "not a christian", so have you, can influence that.
I like artists because they get pass all that are express things for themselves. Even if they show other people and people don't like what they created, they know that expression is a part of themselves. It's a freedom to say here I am and who I am without needing or feeling judged by how you interpret my creation. So, the expression is not for you, but for me.
Start with why -- how great leaders inspire action | Simon Sinek | TEDxPugetSound
5:37-7:35
The whole talk is good. Sinek describes ways that businesses should promote their business to others by understanding deeply and marketing for from their purpose not their goal.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
To an artist (for example) it's both. Interconnected. Not so to many people, though. Some are more literal than others.
Balderdash. The fellow must have never had a spiritual experience in order to be able to distinguish between the two. A genuine spiritual experience cleans up and balances your emotions (for a while anyway); it's not the result of emotion.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Of course, as they say "Do not cast your pearls before swine"
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Holding on to pearls sounds like a pride issue, to tell you honestly.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
He probably has. He just didn't fall into the majority who see spiritual experiences needing to be mystic and all for them to have spiritual value. There is a way the brain can "look outside itself" to monitory and clear away thoughts and emotions, etc. The brain and mind can do a lot of things we take for granted.
Why does spirituality need to be mystic and mystery in order for it to have value as a spiritual experience?