• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does money make people happy

Does money make people happy

  • Yes, it does. Owning lots of money makes you a winner

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • No, it doesn't. Money can't buy love, for example.

    Votes: 19 59.4%
  • I am tempted to say yes, because everybody would.

    Votes: 5 15.6%

  • Total voters
    32

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
People do not play on benevolent nature, they benefit from it.
Geez, not only are you so old that you knew Jesus, but now I realize that you are also living on another planet. It's hard for me to comprehend that I feel a need to even explain this to a fellow human animal. News Flash: People prey on wealthy people all the time in order to part them from their money. Of course the predator benefits from this kind of activity, LOL. That is WHY they do it.

My guess is that you have never been around wealthy people or had anything close to what might be considered personal wealth (in monetary terms).

Unlike you I enjoy doing good like Jesus instead of parroting selfishness and greed of Ayn Rand.
And I thought I was judgmental. Your comment is actually quite offensive. I am not a fan of Ayn Rand. Get over it.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Interesting it'd be nice to read up more on said religious communism. Not exactly enough detail was provided in this post, it still could've been consensual by Jesusists rather than a forced economy.

What makes communism the direct route for a Christian? Whether or not it is ethical is an entirely different debate. I don't understand how you can draw such an extreme belief from Jesus who seemed to be more than not apolitical and more philosophical.

Communism demands public ownership, Jesus did not demand it it is simply an act of virtue apparently.

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. (Matthew 19:16-22)

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)

19 “There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz′arus, full of sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz′arus in his bosom. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz′arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz′arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 2 (Luke 16:19-26)

31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ (Matthew 25:31-40)

God gives His reasons for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah:

49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it. (Ezekiel 16:49-50)

6 There is great gain in godliness with contentment; 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and[a] we cannot take anything out of the world; 8 but if we have food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and hurtful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with many pangs. (1 Timothy 6:6-10)

44 And all who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 and they sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. (Acts 2:44-45) (I.e. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need; sorry, Marxists but Christians had this idea long before you.)

32 Now the company of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold 35 and laid it at the apostles’ feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need. 36 Thus Joseph who was surnamed by the apostles Barnabas (which means, Son of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, 37 sold a field which belonged to him, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. (Acts 4:32-37)

Communism is simply a social order based around sharing and equality. Religious communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jesus was not "apolitical". You cannot be a Christian without holding a viewpoint on the political state of things. Christians are to follow Jesus, allow themselves to be changed by His message and grace and then go out and put His teachings into action. Christ's message is revolutionary. We are called to first change ourselves and then go out and change the world.
 
Last edited:

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
So, we're comparing a musician to a dentist here?

:p

Depends on what type of musician your talking about! :p

Jesus' followers originally lived in communes and practiced a form of religious communism where your possessions were handed over to the Church to be shared among the brothers and sisters, according to Acts. Most Christians simply don't live as the early Christians did and Christian anarcho-communism is a small minority view, unfortunately.

If Christians would actually live like the early Christians and follow what Christ preached, we'd be living in a communist society.

Well said, and this is one of the reasons why I think Jesus had a large amount of Essene influence in his teachings/philosophy, as the Essenes structured their communities in much the same manner.

And I would also like to add that the communities of early Christianity were also very wealthy and powerful from what I've heard from others. The Bishops of the churches within these communities held a lot of power within their respective regions. I believe this is one reason why Constantine chose Christianity as his "state religion", along with Christianity's benevolence which would have made control of populations much more manageable.

Communism is a philosophy that I believe would work very well for small groups where accountability and corruption are very easy to decipher.

It's such a conclusion you made too. If I at all come off as selfish simply because I don't believe in forced "charity" then I have certainly lost faith in this topic.

There's a difference in "forced charity" and paying your "fair share".

Interesting it'd be nice to read up more on said religious communism. Not exactly enough detail was provided in this post, it still could've been consensual by Jesusists rather than a forced economy.

This was the best I could do in a short search.
biblestudying.net

What makes communism the direct route for a Christian? Whether or not it is ethical is an entirely different debate. I don't understand how you can draw such an extreme belief from Jesus who seemed to be more than not apolitical and more philosophical.

What we know of "communism" today is totally different then what "COMMUNEism" really is. A commune is where a small group of people live together, and share all means of production, not where "the state" controls the means of production. The latter is a development of Marxist philosophy which is an entirely different philosophy altogether.

There are many references to Jesus following this philosophy of socialism. Then you also have the description of Early church communities in Acts. Read through the link I posted.

Lastly, it is my opinion that Jesus was may more political than the Bible gives him Credit for. You must realize that within a Jewish Society in antiquity, religion was political. For example, the driving out of the tax collectors was not only a religious act, but a political and economic one too. Same thing for the Caeser quote too. I'm sure there are many other instances just like this, but I'm to lazy to search right now. :eek:

I think Jesus used philosophy and spirituality as political tools. If you opposed the Jewish political/religious hierarchy you almost had to be a philosopher and word arguments in unique fashions, so as not to say the wrong thing in the wrong way and end up getting yourself killed. I guess Jesus wasn't such a great philosopher after all. :p

Communism demands public ownership, Jesus did not demand it it is simply an act of virtue apparently.

Again you must remember that communism prior to the advent of Marxist philosophy was different. Their was no such thing as "public" ownership, except for within small communities. And Jesus did demand it if you were to be a member of his "clique". I believe it went something along the lines of selling all your possessions and following him. Now I'm sure Jesus had some fairly well off friends, Joseph of Arimethea being one, but they weren't necessarily in his direct group. I'm sure Jesus gathered a fairly significant following of philanthropic, wealthy people that were sympathetic to his cause, but were not willing to sell all their possessions.
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
Geez, not only are you so old that you knew Jesus, but now I realize that you are also living on another planet. It's hard for me to comprehend that I feel a need to even explain this to a fellow human animal. News Flash: People prey on wealthy people all the time in order to part them from their money. Of course the predator benefits from this kind of activity, LOL. That is WHY they do it.

My guess is that you have never been around wealthy people or had anything close to what might be considered personal wealth (in monetary terms

And who get's "preyed on" more often? The wealthy or the poor? The entire economic system of the world, and definitely the U.S. is based on the wealthy preying on those less wealthy than them including the middle class and the poor. If the poor "prey" on the wealthy then they must not be good predators considering the wealthiest 1% controls 50% of the world's wealth, and 20% of the world controls 98% of it.

I'm not saying that the wealthy don't get preyed on, but the poor of the world definitely get preyed on more so than do the rich, and if you don't think that's the truth then you are the one living on another planet kind sir.

Communism is simply a social order based around sharing and equality. Religious communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jesus was not "apolitical". You cannot be a Christian without holding a viewpoint on the political state of things. Christians are to follow Jesus, allow themselves to be changed by His message and grace and then go out and put His teachings into action. Christ's message is revolutionary. We are called to first change ourselves and then go out and change the world.

Nice quotes... and well said again!!! Frubie to you sir.
 
Last edited:

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
This song is perfect for this thread:

[youtube]T6Tw_u0ASe0[/youtube]

The life I've always wanted
I guess I'll never have
I'll be working for somebody else
Until I'm in my grave
I'll be dreaming of a live of ease
And mountains Oh mountains o' things

To have a big expensive car
Drag my furs on the ground
And have a maid that I can tell
To bring me anything
Everyone will look at me with envy and with greed
I'll revel in their attention
And mountains Oh mountains o' things

Sweet lazy life
Champagne and caviar
I hope you'll come and find me
Cause you know who we are
Those who deserve the best in life
And know what money's worth
And those whose sole misfortune
Was having mountains o' nothing at birth

Oh they tell me
There's still time to save my soul
They tell me
Renounce all
Renounce all those material things you gained by
Exploiting other human beings

Consume more than you need
This is the dream
Make you pauper
Or make you queen
I won't die lonely
I'll have it all prearranged
A grave that's deep and wide enough
For me and all my mountains o' things

Mostly I feel lonely
Good good people are
Good people are only
My stepping stones
It's gonna take all my mountains o' things
To surround me
Keep all my enemies away
Keep my sadness and loneliness at bay

I'll be dreaming, dreaming... Dreaming...
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
And who get's "preyed on" more often? The wealthy or the poor? The entire economic system of the world, and definitely the U.S. is based on the wealthy preying on those less wealthy than them including the middle class and the poor. If the poor "prey" on the wealthy then they must not be good predators considering the wealthiest 1% controls 50% of the world's wealth, and 20% of the world controls 98% of it.

I'm not saying that the wealthy don't get preyed on, but the poor of the world definitely get preyed on more so than do the rich, and if you don't think that's the truth then you are the one living on another planet kind sir.
Of course. How silly of me. Why, just last week I saw Bill Gates trying to take some loose change from a homeless person.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
News Flash: People prey on wealthy people all the time in order to part them from their money. Of course the predator benefits from this kind of activity, LOL. That is WHY they do it.

That's why owning money is a big responsibility. The problem is that almost all the rich people want to become richer and richer. This is devilish
Because I am not rich at all, but I don't want to become rich. It would be the most hideous burden ever.
But if I became rich by chance, I would be very happy: because I would have the possibility to help lots of people. Even if I spent almost all the money on charity.
 
Last edited:

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Of course. How silly of me. Why, just last week I saw Bill Gates trying to take some loose change from a homeless person.
Of course, when the powerful steal, they do it differently. The most obvious way they steal is exemplified by criminals such as Bernie Madoff. The less obvious way they steal is to use their power and influence to have the tax code fall more harshly on the middle class while they get special tax breaks. There are many many news stories over the past few years on this unfairness. One such story is: Happy Tax Day, and Why the Top 1% Pay a Lower Rate Than You Do That's not put a gun at someone's head stealing, but it is to me stealing none-the-less.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
By money I don't mean the money necessary for survival in a developed country. By money I mean huge amount of money. More than 500 dollars\euros per week.

My question is: does owning lots of money make people happy?
By people I mean you, not the others

Me, no. I'm at least capable of creating my own happiness. It is not something I need money for.

Money can buy you experiences though. A person who's happiness is dependent on external events, I can see, money making them happy.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. (Matthew 19:16-22)

Is perfection necessary? I'm reading it more as an offer for an already good man, not a demand. IF you would be PERFECT. Not required.

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)

Seems very extreme. It's unfortunate for the Popes then.

And rich from what perspective? To many south Africans, anyone with internet would be going to hell according to this.

19 “There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz′arus, full of sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz′arus in his bosom. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz′arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz′arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 2 (Luke 16:19-26)

What exactly does this have to do with communism? It could definitely be read as "Don't be a dick." instead of "All things must be shared". There is a moderation between kicking people to the curb for asking for money and being ordered to share your belongings. That moderation is handing some of your wealth to support the person asking for money, with full heart. That is in difference to the government sticking vacuum hoses in your billfold.


God gives His reasons for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah:

49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it. (Ezekiel 16:49-50)

As above; aiding the poor =/= all things shared by the unbounded force of government.

Jesus was not "apolitical". You cannot be a Christian without holding a viewpoint on the political state of things. Christians are to follow Jesus, allow themselves to be changed by His message and grace and then go out and put His teachings into action. Christ's message is revolutionary. We are called to first change ourselves and then go out and change the world.

You cannot be a human being with an opinion without holding a viewpoint on the political state of things.

I don't think he held much of a political view, only an ethical philosophy. He was radical for sure, and died for political reasons, but by the sound of it he tried to help man live under God rather than how man sould live under himself
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
What exactly does this have to do with communism? It could definitely be read as "Don't be a dick." instead of "All things must be shared". There is a moderation between kicking people to the curb for asking for money and being ordered to share your belongings. That moderation is handing some of your wealth to support the person asking for money, with full heart. That is in difference to the government sticking vacuum hoses in your billfold.
As above; aiding the poor =/= all things shared by the unbounded force of government.

Actually it is money-hunger that leads people to Hell.
There are people who want more and more money, not to spend it on things, but just to store it in banks.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
This is not to be mistaken with socialism. I'd take Jesus's words to mean something like donations, charity. Not something as absurd as forcing money out of people's hands, for example, taxing the rich, or unequal taxes in general.

Yes... it's much better to merely threaten the rich and well-fed with eternal torment.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
This is not to be mistaken with socialism. I'd take Jesus's words to mean something like donations, charity. Not something as absurd as forcing money out of people's hands, for example, taxing the rich, or unequal taxes in general.

Sure the government forcing you to share your wealth is not you actually doing anything. It takes the responsibility out of your hands. I suppose some like it like that or perhaps don't trust their fellowman. Still the government is managed by their fellowman so I don't see how government intervention is any more trustworthy.

Money can be used as a tool to help others. You doing it means something, being forced to means nothing.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Of course, when the powerful steal, they do it differently. The most obvious way they steal is exemplified by criminals such as Bernie Madoff. The less obvious way they steal is to use their power and influence to have the tax code fall more harshly on the middle class while they get special tax breaks. There are many many news stories over the past few years on this unfairness. One such story is: Happy Tax Day, and Why the Top 1% Pay a Lower Rate Than You Do That's not put a gun at someone's head stealing, but it is to me stealing none-the-less.
So scream at your elected officials, assuming you vote, of course.
 
Top