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Does objective reality require faith

Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Willamena said:
Objectivity is about where the truth-value falls. If something is seen as true, we will place it independent of ourself because of a predetermined and programmed metaphysics that dictates that truth is independent of us [thereby casting us independent of reality].

It's not necessarily the case.
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So, no, objectivity doesn't require faith, it requires ignorance.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Willamena said:
[Philosophical] Objectivity is about where the truth-value falls. If something is seen as true, we will place it independent of ourself because of a predetermined and programmed metaphysics that dictates that truth is independent of us [thereby casting us independent of reality].

It's not necessarily the case.
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This is what Jayhawker was asking about but I think you just gave a much better answer.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
idav said:
I think we need to be sure of a lot of things mostly because ignorance breeds suffering. At the same time though hope is needed so there should be some reasonable way to reconcile the things we hope for with the things we know,
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Hope is what brings suffering. Ignorance is bliss.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
idav said:
When I start with "I believe" its usually denotes uncertainty. I can say I know god because I think I know but I am uncertain.
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Whether or not you begin with, "I believe," your statement is a statement of belief to me and all who are subject to it. Statements of fact are those that are intersubjective (that two or more agree on, regardless), meaning that we might incidentally agree.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
But that's just what you think is knowledge. You could be wrong.
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Thats not my point, if I think its knowledge I won't use the word believe. To believe in something means doubt. Like me asking if I believe the table is real is loaded question already seeding doubt. If I say I know there is a table its cause it isn't something I would ever question. Do I know there is a god or spirit, heck no.
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
idav said:
Objective reality are the things that we are sure exist. I think that even if objective reality doesn't exist that it still requires zero faith to believe in. Objective things are the only things we can be sure about and know about even if we are in some simulated dream because the simulations would still be real. Things that I have to hope are real can't be verified objectively. Something that is right in front of my face I don't have to hope for cause its in front of me.
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"Objective reality" is a can of worms philosophically, but if you saying we don't need faith to experience the effects of gravity ( for example ) then I'd agree.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
idav said:
Thats not my point, if I think its knowledge I won't use the word believe. To believe in something means doubt. Like me asking if I believe the table is real is loaded question already seeding doubt. If I say I know there is a table its cause it isn't something I would ever question. Do I know there is a god or spirit, heck no.
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My point is that you don't know there is a table, either. You only think you do.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
My point is that you don't know there is a table, either. You only think you do.
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No not really cause that would make talking of objective reality really pointless. So then you don't believe in any type of knowledge, that makes any point your trying to make rather fruitless. I don't have to consider what is front of me and plenty of people can see and stub there toe on. So the language we are using is knowledge vs belief and objective reality vs subjective reality. Saying I need faith in a table really is not correct and I don't believe in solipsism but thanks.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
idav said:
No not really cause that would make talking of objective reality really pointless. So then you don't believe in any type of knowledge, that makes any point your trying to make rather fruitless. I don't have to consider what is front of me and plenty of people can see and stub there toe on. So the language we are using is knowledge vs belief and objective reality vs subjective reality. Saying I need faith in a table really is not correct and I don't believe in solipsism but thanks.
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But it is correct. You don't want to admit you're wrong. It's okay, we're cool.
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
First Baseman said:
My point is that you don't know there is a table, either. You only think you do.
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When I go out for a coffee with friends there does seem to be a consensus about a "table" being there. I guess we could be in a matrix-style simulation, but if so it's very realistic.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
Prove they exist as you perceive them beyond doubt.
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A proof is 1 apple plus 1 apple equals 2 apples and we need objective reality to have proof. Otherwise what is the discussion I'm having with my keyboard? I don't have doubt thats the point it doesn't require faith, objective reality is foundational.
 
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