Does organized religion miss the whole point about God?

[nutshell]

I don't get involved with organized religion. They completly miss the the whole point about what God is about.

This was posted in another thread and I thought it would make an interesting topic.

If you believe the above statement please explain why you think organized religion misses the whole point about what God is about.

As a member of an organized religion, I think my religion and I have a great grasp of what God is about.

 

[Aqualung]

I don't think it does. After all, christ himself at least tried to organise his religion. They weren't so great about following that, but still, it speaks to the importance of it.

 

[linwood]

I think it does in a sense.

There is no realistic evidence that a god even exists yet organized religions claim to know what god thinks, wants, needs, and demands.

Different organized religions state that god thinks, wants, needs, and demands entirely contradictory to other organized religions.

The fact that the greatest determining factor of what a believer will believe is geography shows me that these contradictory systems don`t do much but muddy the waters of spirituality.

Each should find their own path, this way none can be "wrong".

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I don't know. I'm not sure if there really is even a 'point' about any god or goddess. They simply are. (Or aren't, if you're an atheist or may be if you're an agnostic...)

I've noticed, however, that there are people I respect here on RF that hail from all different paths. I've seen those from 'disorganized' religions behave like savages, and those from 'organized' religion behave like saints. I've also seen the opposite. I don't think it's the religion that matters, so much as the person.

 

[nutshell]

I think it does in a sense.

Why am I not surprised, Linwood.

There is no realistic evidence that a god even exists yet organized religions claim to know what god thinks, wants, needs, and demands.

Non-organized belief systems make the same claim.

Different organized religions state that god thinks, wants, needs, and demands entirely contradictory to other organized religions.

Non-organized belief systems state the same.

The fact that the greatest determining factor of what a believer will believe is geography shows me that these contradictory systems don`t do much but muddy the waters of spirituality.

This is an interesting thought. I want to ponder on this for awhile.

 

[nutshell]

I don't know. I'm not sure if there really is even a 'point' about any god or goddess. They simply are. (Or aren't, if you're an atheist or may be if you're an agnostic...)

I've noticed, however, that there are people I respect here on RF that hail from all different paths. I've seen those from 'disorganized' religions behave like savages, and those from 'organized' religion behave like saints. I've also seen the opposite. I don't think it's the religion that matters, so much as the person.

Absolutely. There is good and bad everywhere and no person or organization is usually all one or the other.

 

[Smoke]

If you believe the above statement please explain why you think organized religion misses the whole point about what God is about.

Krishnamurti said it better than I could:

You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to help him organize it."

I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect.





​

As a member of an organized religion, I think my religion and I have a great grasp of what God is about.

Those who think they have "a great grasp of what God is about" are always mistaken. They are invariably worshipers of some false and imaginary god, usually one created in their own image.

 

[linwood]

Non-organized belief systems make the same claim.

Yes but in non-organized systems there is no over reaching dogma as there is in every other organizaed system I know of.
It`s the irrationality of dogma that is whats dangerous and harmful about religion.

These non-organized religions do not tell others what god says and admonish them if they don`t follow them as god themselves.

Non-organized belief systems state the same.

Yes but in non-organized systems there is no over reaching dogma as there is in every other organizaed system I know of.
It`s the irrationality of dogma that is whats dangerous and harmful about religion.

These non-organized religions do not tell others what god says and admonish them if they don`t follow them as god themselves.

It get me wondering if believers of these religions are following god or following the church.
My vote goes to the church considering "god" would seem to me to have to be either an entirely personal concept or worthless.

 

[nutshell]

Krishnamurti said it better than I could:

You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to help him organize it." I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect.



​

Those who think they have "a great grasph of what God is about" are always mistaken. They are invariably worshipers of some false and imaginary god, usually one created in their own image.

And why does this apply only to organized religion? Can't your statements apply to unorganized religion or spiritual practices as well?

 

[nutshell]

Yes but in non-organized systems there is no over reaching dogma as there is in every other organizaed system I know of.
It`s the irrationality of dogma that is whats dangerous and harmful about religion.

These non-organized religions do not tell others what god says and admonish them if they don`t follow them as god themselves.


Yes but in non-organized systems there is no over reaching dogma as there is in every other organizaed system I know of.
It`s the irrationality of dogma that is whats dangerous and harmful about religion.

These non-organized religions do not tell others what god says and admonish them if they don`t follow them as god themselves.

Actually, I've been admonished many a time by non-organized religions, including here at the RF.

It get me wondering if believers of these religions are following god or following the church.
My vote goes to the church considering "god" would seem to me to have to be either an entirely personal concept or worthless.

Well, if you're following God's Church then, ultimately, you're following God.

 

[gnomon]

From an outside perspective, being an athiest and all, I personally make no distinction between those who claim to be adherents to an organized (the true word would be tradtitional) religion and those who claim to be spiritual (thus separating themselves from any organization). To be perfectly honest I quite often have found the latter to be a bit more presumptious in their statements. A perspective I gained from a few years of membership in the most "unorganized" but "spiritual" of groups, Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

[linwood]

Krishnamurti said it better than I could:

How have I never heard of this person?!!
I think I`ve just found a personal icon.

Thank you for the enlightenment Midnight!

Check this out...

Jiddu Krishnamurti

When Krishnamurti dies, which is inevitable, you will set about forming rules in your minds, because the individual, Krishnamurti, had represented to you the Truth. So you will build a temple, you will then begin to have ceremonies, to invent phrases, dogmas, systems of belief, creeds, and to create philosophies. If you build great foundations upon me, the individual, you will be caught in that house, in that temple, and so you will have to have another Teacher come and extricate you from that temple. But the human mind is such that you will build another temple around Him, and so it will go on and on.'

He said this shortly before his death..amazing insight!

 

[nutshell]

How have I never heard of this person?!!
I think I`ve just found a personal icon.

Thank you for the enlightenment Midnight!

Check this out...

Jiddu Krishnamurti

When Krishnamurti dies, which is inevitable, you will set about forming rules in your minds, because the individual, Krishnamurti, had represented to you the Truth. So you will build a temple, you will then begin to have ceremonies, to invent phrases, dogmas, systems of belief, creeds, and to create philosophies. If you build great foundations upon me, the individual, you will be caught in that house, in that temple, and so you will have to have another Teacher come and extricate you from that temple. But the human mind is such that you will build another temple around Him, and so it will go on and on.'

He said this shortly before his death..amazing insight!

Interesting stuff.

I guess I'm pretty lucky that I belong to a religion with teachings and temples built by God Himself.

 

[Smoke]

And why does this apply only to organized religion? Can't your statements apply to unorganized religion or spiritual practices as well?

What would an "unorganized" religion be? In the absence of religion, how are "spiritual practices" distinguished from any other practices?

 

[linwood]

Actually, I've been admonished many a time by non-organized religions, including here at the RF.

really?
Can you cite an example?
You can do it through PM if you don`t want the wrath of the MOD`s to come down on you.

It just seems logical to me that if a "religion" has no dogma then it cannot admonish a person.
I take the pagans and wiccans and those who follow other less common spiritual paths less dogmatic, more tolerant and understanding, than any of those who follow any of the standard Abrahamic faiths in this forum.

Well, if you're following God's Church then, ultimately, you're following God.

The point is, how do you "know" you`re following gods church?
On this planet god has tens of thousands of different churches, his followers seem to believe whichever church is most prevelant in their area.

Thats hardly a vote of confidence for introspective spirituality.

 

[linwood]

Interesting stuff.

I guess I'm pretty lucky that I belong to a religion with teachings and temples built by God Himself.

:banghead3

Oh well.

 

[nutshell]

From an outside perspective, being an athiest and all, I personally make no distinction between those who claim to be adherents to an organized (the true word would be tradtitional) religion and those who claim to be spiritual (thus separating themselves from any organization). To be perfectly honest I quite often have found the latter to be a bit more presumptious in their statements. A perspective I gained from a few years of membership in the most "unorganized" but "spiritual" of groups, Alcoholics Anonymous.

Very interesting. My understanding is that AA promotes a belief in a "higher power." It doesn't necessarily have to be "spiritual" or about God. Is that right or am I off?

 

[nutshell]

:banghead3

Oh well.

lol...I thought you'd enjoy that.

 

[Smoke]

When Krishnamurti dies, which is inevitable, you will set about forming rules in your minds, because the individual, Krishnamurti, had represented to you the Truth. So you will build a temple, you will then begin to have ceremonies, to invent phrases, dogmas, systems of belief, creeds, and to create philosophies. If you build great foundations upon me, the individual, you will be caught in that house, in that temple, and so you will have to have another Teacher come and extricate you from that temple. But the human mind is such that you will build another temple around Him, and so it will go on and on.'


He said this shortly before his death..amazing insight!

Part of the greatness of Krishnamurti is that he declined to found a religion, though many of his followers expected him to, and were mightily disappointed when he didn't.

All the great teachers are the same: they tell you to seek the light, or the kingdom of God, or whatever metaphor they use to describe it, within. Then those who are spiritually dead erect religions around them. Jesus no more founded a religion than Krishnamurti did.

 

[linwood]

A perspective I gained from a few years of membership in the most "unorganized" but "spiritual" of groups, Alcoholics Anonymous.

AA is a highly organised organization (pun intended) with an extremely strict dogma.

It`s unyielding and based upon a religious template.