Does perfection exist?

[Dan From Smithville]

I have friends and know of people that have been called perfectionists. This is often spoken of as a positive trait, although at times I have sensed that some also meant picky too.

One question that always comes to my mind on hearing such statements is "How do they know what is perfect?" for whatever it is they do. Or is it that they just like things a certain way that is pleasing to them and others find something pleasing about it too?

Does perfection in anything really exist? Wouldn't you have to know what is perfect in order to approach it? Is it logically possible to achieve perfection and how would you know?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm right here. What more is there to say?

 

[InChrist]

I'm right here. What more is there to say?

Oh my...

 

[JustGeorge]

Honestly, I don't like perfectionism. Its a trait I struggle with in others, not necessarily because I care that they want things a certain way, but because, in my experience, they often become agitated(at best) if and when perfection(for whatever it means in their own head) can't be achieved.

I think perfection means too many different things for one to say they have achieved it. What one finds beautiful, another finds bland. Two people will have a differing opinions on the same dish. One method works for one, while another finds it stifling.

That being said, one should attempt to do the best they can with what they have to work with(resources, time, mindset, etc).

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Honestly, I don't like perfectionism. Its a trait I struggle with in others, not necessarily because I care that they want things a certain way, but because, in my experience, they often become agitated(at best) if and when perfection(for whatever it means in their own head) can't be achieved.

I think perfection means too many different things for one to say they have achieved it. What one finds beautiful, another finds bland. Two people will have a differing opinions on the same dish. One method works for one, while another finds it stifling.

That being said, one should attempt to do the best they can with what they have to work with(resources, time, mindset, etc).

I see it as relative too. One person's perfection is another's eh.

I think your first point relates to a post on another thread that prompted me to make this thread. To paraphrase--correctly I hope--the claim was that perfection doesn't exist and if it did, it would destroy creativity. I find myself sort of agreeing with that. But what you say is something I am familiar with too and seems to be related. People do seem to become tense when they fail to achieve or maintain what they consider to be perfection.

 

[MatthewA]

What do you mean by perfect, Dan are you talking about doing things perfectly or being perfectly moral and upright?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What do you mean by perfect, Dan are you talking about doing things perfectly or being perfectly moral and upright?

I am just thinking about a state of perfection for any human effort. A perfect home. A perfect life. A perfect creation like a piece of art or music. Perfect morals. A perfect game. The list could go on. All these things have been claimed to exist. Wouldn't you have to know all permutations of a thing in order to declare one of those permutations as perfect?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What do you mean by perfect, Dan are you talking about doing things perfectly or being perfectly moral and upright?

I suppose, if you achieve what you desire, what you desire might be perfect in relation to some subjective ideal. But, given the limitations of our own minds, is that really the ultimate state that could be called perfection objectively.

Edit: Not just the limitations of our minds, but the knowledge that each of us possess has limits.

 

[JustGeorge]

the claim was that perfection doesn't exist and if it did, it would destroy creativity.

I hadn't thought about that, but yes, I agree with that as well. If there was only one 'right way', things would become awfully monotonous in attempts to imitate that one way.

But what you say is something I am familiar with too and seems to be related. People do seem to become tense when they fail to achieve or maintain what they consider to be perfection.

An interesting thought is what they can destroy in the process...

When I was a kid, I had to keep my room clean on a daily basis. In order to get a reward, I had to clean it to 'perfection', and one day's screw up would erase the progress of all the days before. I remember my dad trying to point out microscopic things in attempts to 'fail' me.. (for example, a lone piece of pet food, or a scrap from the jagged edges of notebook paper). He thought he was teaching me how to clean 'perfectly', but in reality, he was destroying hopes at a decent relationship with his kid.

The question then becomes, what is it you want to be perfect, and what are you comfortable demolishing in order to get it?

 

[SigurdReginson]

Hmmm... I can be a bit of a perfectionist myself. I do like for things to line up and be orderly, but I'm not too picky when it comes to others - just myself.

I think it comes from the patterns humans see in things spilling over into what they derive satisfaction from. I enjoy when things line up juuuust right, and click into place in a succinct way.

On a world of random chance, making sense of the chaos does much to bring comfort to those of us who like order.

 

[MatthewA]

Here is what the Greek word for perfect means to be mature or something that has made it to its complete end? Strong's Greek: 5046. τέλειος (teleios) -- having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Do not know if that would help at least in defining the word from the Greek sense however, do agree with @JustGeorge in how that having the notion of being and doing everything ‘perfectly without flaw’ is an extreme amount of pressure to deal with and when learned and placed upon a child growing up it can effect their whole life.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hadn't thought about that, but yes, I agree with that as well. If there was only one 'right way', things would become awfully monotonous in attempts to imitate that one way.



An interesting thought is what they can destroy in the process...

When I was a kid, I had to keep my room clean on a daily basis. In order to get a reward, I had to clean it to 'perfection', and one day's screw up would erase the progress of all the days before. I remember my dad trying to point out microscopic things in attempts to 'fail' me.. (for example, a lone piece of pet food, or a scrap from the jagged edges of notebook paper). He thought he was teaching me how to clean 'perfectly', but in reality, he was destroying hopes at a decent relationship with his kid.

The question then becomes, what is it you want to be perfect, and what are you comfortable demolishing in order to get it?

I can see that. In a teaching moment a person could force their idea of perfection so strongly onto another and teach them the opposite or something negative and unintended.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hmmm... I can be a bit of a perfectionist myself. I do like for things to line up and be orderly, but I'm not too picky when it comes to others - just myself.

I think it comes from the patterns humans see in things spilling over into what they derive satisfaction from. I enjoy when things line up juuuust right, and click into place in a succinct way.

On a world of random chance, making sense of the chaos does much to bring comfort to those of us who like order.

I like things rather orderly myself and I have to alter my personal paradigms to adjust to situations that seem--at least on the surface--to be rather chaotic. What I wonder is my version of order actually approaching a state of perfection or just how I like it. Perhaps how I like it, is only perfect to me or for me.

I rather like to find sense in the chaos myself. Though some days, it feels better to accept that the chaos happens than to try and understand it.

 

[Neuropteron]

I have friends and know of people that have been called perfectionists. This is often spoken of as a positive trait, although at times I have sensed that some also meant picky too.

One question that always comes to my mind on hearing such statements is "How do they know what is perfect?" for whatever it is they do. Or is it that they just like things a certain way that is pleasing to them and others find something pleasing about it too?

Does perfection in anything really exist? Wouldn't you have to know what is perfect in order to approach it? Is it logically possible to achieve perfection and how would you know?

Hi,
Perfection means to be without fault or blemish. A perfectionist is a person that desires to attain to this goal. It does not mean that he/she is perfect.

Perfection is also dependent on ones perspective or subjectivity.
What is perfect for one may be the opposite for another.
A positive or righteous individual might see perfection differently as an anarchist or a nihilist.

A christian believes that God is the one that decides what is perfect.
"The way of the true God is perfect" 2Sam 22:31

 

[ChristineM]

I have friends and know of people that have been called perfectionists. This is often spoken of as a positive trait, although at times I have sensed that some also meant picky too.

One question that always comes to my mind on hearing such statements is "How do they know what is perfect?" for whatever it is they do. Or is it that they just like things a certain way that is pleasing to them and others find something pleasing about it too?

Does perfection in anything really exist? Wouldn't you have to know what is perfect in order to approach it? Is it logically possible to achieve perfection and how would you know?

I'm a perfectionist, i like things to be right in my own mind. Other people can think differently but if i am content with what i do then it's perfect for me.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I like things rather orderly myself and I have to alter my personal paradigms to adjust to situations that seem--at least on the surface--to be rather chaotic. What I wonder is my version of order actually approaching a state of perfection or just how I like it. Perhaps how I like it, is only perfect to me or for me.

I rather like to find sense in the chaos myself. Though some days, it feels better to accept that the chaos happens than to try and understand it.

I think it is more about how you like things rather than actual perfection. As you say, what perfection even is comes down to opinion.

I'm not so hung up on it when it comes to the rest of the world, cause what's the point? My version of perfection only matters to me. Everyone has their own ideas on things, and the ways they view things has it's own beauty I can appreciate.

Trying to figure out what people see in their ideas of what perfection is can also be a fun puzzle to ponder. You often find that people see the world in ways you can't really comprehend, and nothing showcases this more than in art.

 

[JustGeorge]

chaos happens

I may put that on a plaque and hang it on my wall.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Here is what the Greek word for perfect means to be mature or something that has made it to its complete end? Strong's Greek: 5046. τέλειος (teleios) -- having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Do not know if that would help at least in defining the word from the Greek sense however, do agree with @JustGeorge in how that having the notion of being and doing everything ‘perfectly without flaw’ is an extreme amount of pressure to deal with and when learned and placed upon a child growing up it can effect their whole life.

I am not sure that it exists either, but I am even less sure that I can even know if it did exist. If I were to be confronted by the perfect in whatever category I was interested in, I would have to know much of what isn't perfection in order to make the claim of having seen it.

I rather appreciate the definitions. I had no particular confines in mind regarding how others would come to this thread if they chose to. I value the contribution and new learning. That may be as perfect as I can get. LOL.

I agree too. The pressure to achieve what may be unrealistic or, in reality, possibly a flawed ideal, can place a child under a lot of unneeded stress.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think it is more about how you like things rather than actual perfection. As you say, what perfection even is comes down to opinion.

I'm not so hung up on it when it comes to the rest of the world, cause what's the point? My version of perfection only matters to me. Everyone has their own ideas on things, and the ways they view things has it's own beauty I can appreciate.

Trying to figure out what people see in their ideas of what perfection is can also be a fun puzzle to ponder. You often find that people see the world in ways you can't really comprehend, and nothing showcases this more than in art.

I rather like how you put that. I hesitate to say it was perfect, but I found wisdom in it for me.

Art is a window and there is no telling what perspective will be there for our viewing.

 

[MatthewA]

When it comes down to being perfect, I believe in being a mature living by the spirit Christian. My natural self doesn’t really care about being perfect, (I’ll do things in a fashion which suits me but may not suit others).

I had my clothes on top of the dryer for days and washed more clothes and put more into the dryer. Today finally got to placing them all away in their rightful place.

When it comes to being perfect I do not expect it, in fact I expect that a problem will come up which will need to worked around. If life in a perception of everything must go correctly 100% all time is inconsistent with human nature and the fact we are not perfect. I know I am most certainly am not perfect, but I try to live maturely by the spirit of Christ in me.

That just my take on the subject as a whole. Thank you for the topic Dan, and it was nice to hear others responses.