Does Prayer "Work"?

[thomas t]

I still owe him a discussion on an enhanced experiment that I wasn't able to formulate to my satisfaction, yet.

no need to do it. No believer would be willing to take part in these sorts of experiments.
It's like telling God "You say you keep your word? Let's put it to the test so then!" - that's not how proper relationships work, in my opinion.
No spouse would do such an experiment with their married partner, for instance. They don't test each other, they simply trust each other, I think. Big difference. Tests are for non-believers.

But maybe there are exceptions to that rule.

However, your test would be sharing the results to the outer world. And this is the point where it gets too much for believers, I think. Let's compare it to marriage again. To a marriage in troubled waters.
if you're having trouble with your spouse putting him or her to the test already... why announce putting the results on social media? Can't you keep your marriage problem for yourself or consult an expert instead? Why take it to the public? Who shares their marriage problems on facebook?
This would be bad behavior, in my opinion.

EDITED

 

[Heyo]

no need to do it. No believer would be willing to take part in these sorts of experiments.
It's like telling God "You say you keep your word? Let's put it to the test so then!" - that's not how proper relationships work, in my opinion.
No spouse would do such an experiment with their married partner, for instance. They don't test each other, they simply trust each other, I think. Big difference. Tests are for non-believers.

But maybe there are exceptions to that rule.

However, your test would be sharing the results to the outer world. And this is the point where it gets too much for believers, I think. Let's compare it to marriage again. To a marriage in troubled waters.
if you're having trouble with your spouse putting him or her to the test already... why announce putting the results on social media? Can't you keep your marriage problem for yourself or consult an expert instead? Why take it to the public? Who shares their marriage problems on facebook?
This would be bad behavior, in my opinion.

EDITED

Very reasonable. I think similar. If you believe something, you don't have to prove it. The burden of proof only arises when you make a statement of fact.
That's always the excuse of the (soft) atheists, "I don't say that god doesn't exist, I just say that I don't believe in any gods." By the same logic no theist who says "I believe in god" (or "I believe that god answers prayers") has a burden of proof.

 

[Heyo]

Ever heard of Maharishi effect?

No but I just read the Wikipedia page.
"This was referred to as the "extended Maharishi effect".[96][97] Evidence, which TM practitioners[98] argue supports the existence of the effect, has been criticized as lacking a causal basis,[99] being derived from cherry-picked data,[100] and being based on the credulity of believers.[99][101]"
Transcendental Meditation - Wikipedia

 

[PearlSeeker]

No but I just read the Wikipedia page.
"This was referred to as the "extended Maharishi effect".[96][97] Evidence, which TM practitioners[98] argue supports the existence of the effect, has been criticized as lacking a causal basis,[99] being derived from cherry-picked data,[100] and being based on the credulity of believers.[99][101]"
Transcendental Meditation - Wikipedia

There are also replies to critics.

Critics & Rebuttals | truthabouttm.org

 

[Heyo]

There are also replies to critics.

Critics & Rebuttals | truthabouttm.org

I tried to browse through the studies but somehow I always landed back on truthabouttm.org or the MIU. Independent studies were on effects on practitioners only. Can you link to an independent study, published in a referred journal? I couldn't find one.

 

[Deidre]

I view prayer as a way of sharing my deepest thoughts, pains, and triumphs with God. Allowing myself to be in His presence. Quiet and listening. I think if one views God as a wish granter, not seeking to learn who this God is, then he/she will be disappointed. God doesn’t need my prayers, but our prayers help us connect with Him, is how I view it.

 

[Kenny]

I don't know what to blame for this being so common amongst adults in western society.

Schools that don't teach logic? Some people are ignorant of what they are doing wrong but would be willing to learn how to have a real debate.

A society that doesn't value truth? They might value logic and truth more if schools taught it. But some people don't care what the truth is regardless - they just want their opinion validated by others.

In my experience, people don't value truth because they don't love truth. They don't want it more than they want their own ideas validated.

We see this idea in the Bible:
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
-2 Thessalonians

It is true that "logic" is basically not taught in schools... nor was it when I was young. I was very excited when my grandchildren, through home-schooling had an intensive course in logic.

But your statement, IMV, is correct. Part of the reason is not being taught, (my people perish for lack of knowledge), some because they reject knowledge (truth).. Hosea 4:6

I believe we see the answer all the way back in Genesis with the fall of man.
We see in the Bible that Adam and Eve weren't content to be just like God and have access to everything that was His - they wanted to be gods unto themselves, independent of God (which we see Biblically is impossible, and a deception leading to death).

Ultimately, that is what it boils down to. IMU. Always "I know a better way" or "there is another way of truth to find life".

Great analysis from a Christian perspective.

 

[metis]

It is true that "logic" is basically not taught in schools... nor was it when I was young. I was very excited when my grandchildren, through home-schooling had an intensive course in logic.

I used the Socratic Method a lot in order to try and get my students to use logic and not just spoon-feed them answers.

For example, before even saying hello to my anthropology students on the first day of a new semester, I posted a picture of an Africa couple from a certain tribe, whereas they had scant clothes and he had a spear in his hand. Then after 1 minute I shut the projector off, told them they couldn't talk and had them take out a sheet of paper and write down what they saw for. Then I had them state what they saw, and you can probably imagine what some of the words that they used were. Of course, the men focusing in on the woman's bare beasts always came out with some carefully-chosen but nervous words.

Then I asked them, if these two people could see us, what would they likely say? I could see the "wheels turning" at first because I know that the question would catch them off-guard.

I used this technique to encourage objective thinking plus empathy, and also I told them if that if they're offended by the picture then please drop the course because they would have to get used to "seeing" people with different traditions and different senses of morality. I did this for roughly 30 years, and never once had a complaint or drop the course for that reason.

 

[Kenny]

I used the Socratic Method a lot in order to try and get my students to use logic and not just spoon-feed them answers.

For example, before even saying hello to my anthropology students on the first day of a new semester, I posted a picture of an Africa couple from a certain tribe, whereas they had scant clothes and he had a spear in his hand. Then after 1 minute I shut the projector off, told them they couldn't talk and had them take out a sheet of paper and write down what they saw for. Then I had them state what they saw, and you can probably imagine what some of the words that they used were. Of course, the men focusing in on the woman's bare beasts always came out with some carefully-chosen but nervous words.

Then I asked them, if these two people could see us, what would they likely say? I could see the "wheels turning" at first because I know that the question would catch them off-guard.

I used this technique to encourage objective thinking plus empathy, and also I told them if that if they're offended by the picture then please drop the course because they would have to get used to "seeing" people with different traditions and different senses of morality. I did this for roughly 30 years, and never once had a complaint or drop the course for that reason.

This is OUTSTANDING!

What a great way to introduce the reality of different customs and traditions. They all are, after all, another set of real-life people with like passions like anyone else.

Well done!

 

[metis]

This is OUTSTANDING!

What a great way to introduce the reality of different customs and traditions. They all are, after all, another set of real-life people with like passions like anyone else.

Well done!

Thank you so much, and I hope you're enjoying Labor Day!

 

[Kenny]

Thank you so much, and I hope you're enjoying Labor Day!

I LABORED! My wife had some plants she wanted me to work at.

 

[tayla]

It is therefore reasonable to assume that prayers may work similar to meditation on the human system.

Even talking to yourself to plan what you want to do with your day "works".

I think of prayer in terms of communicating with supernatural beings who change reality as a response. Since I don't believe in such a thing, I don't believe prayer exists except as the ritual of doing it.

 

[metis]

I LABORED! My wife had some plants she wanted me to work at.

That's probably because you're not unionized, so go on strike and really show her that you won't stand up for this repression! But then you probably won't get any ... um, "benefits".