Does supernatural exist

[Audie]

"Supernatural" is an empty word because we do not know the limits of the natural world, and so we cannot know if something is beyond the limits of the natural world.

Let's have your word and definition, then.

Keeping in mind that comparable probs
exist for every word in the dictionary.

 

[SalixIncendium]

"Supernatural" is an empty word because we do not know the limits of the natural world, and so we cannot know if something is beyond the limits of the natural world.

I disagree. Between the 'S' and the 'L', it's chock full of letters.

 

[Little Dragon]

I believe the as yet unknown laws of physics, that go beyond our current understanding, might very well permit supernatural phenomenon. The other issue being of course, that ghosts etc are inherently difficult to test under strict laboratory conditions, as it were. Not to mention hazardous to your professional reputation.

 

[Little Dragon]

"Supernatural" is an empty word because we do not know the limits of the natural world, and so we cannot know if something is beyond the limits of the natural world.

Interesting answer. I agree.

 

[HonestJoe]

In other words do 'you' think supernatural can exist?

No, because if anything identified as "supernatural" actually existed, it would just be natural. The key question is why it is considered a district category of things in the first place?

 

[Bthoth]

This isn't about show me your evidence
This is purely about your own thinking.

In other words do 'you' think supernatural can exist?

Yes, a conscious life can tie their own shoes. It's not happening naturally but based on knowledge learned and put to use.

It's above natural laws to be conscious and capable of creating events to exist by their own cause.

Mankind is capable......

 

[Kfox]

Notice this isn't in a debate forum.
This isn't about science says this
This isn't about the bible says that
This isn't about show me your evidence
This is purely about your own thinking.

In other words do 'you' think supernatural can exist?

By definition; once something is proven to exist, it becomes natural thus no longer supernatural.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

do 'you' think supernatural can exist?

I consider the concept incoherent. Whatever exists and is causally connected to other existents is another aspect of nature. Why should we partition of a chunk of reality and say that it's not natural just because it's laws and substances might be unfamiliar to us?

Another aspect of the supernatural as commonly described that I find incoherent is that it is a realm outside of time and space that can influence our world but cannot be detected from it. Whatever affects any element of reality does so in time and space, and is detectable through that effect.

What this idea represents to me is a means for saying that what is not detectable is real anyway. To me, reality is the collection of objects and processes that are causally connected in time and space, that is, they can affect one another as cause and effect. A wolf exists because it meets those criteria.

The nonexistent have none of those qualities. They cannot be found anywhere at any time, and cannot modify things that do exist, like werewolves.

Everything real possesses all three qualities, anything imagined possess none of them. The supernatural is a sleight of hand that says that even though this realm is not in time or space, it's still real and can affect reality while being separate from it. Maybe the incoherence of that idea is apparent there now, and why such a construct is logically impossible. Nothing can be causally connected to reality yet undetectable or not existing in time (cause and effect require time for there to be prior and later states as does all action including thought and creative acts).

 

[Little Dragon]

Another aspect of the supernatural as commonly described that I find incoherent is that it is a realm outside of time and space that can influence our world but cannot be detected from it. Whatever affects any element of reality does so in time and space, and is detectable through that effect.

Possibly.
Some string theorists have postulated that the gravitational field is orders of magnitude weaker than the other forces, because, it is not restricted to our spacetime, it is diluted if you will, by radiating into other branes (universes) via a higher dimensional frame of reference in which these brane worlds are 'within'. According to them, dark matter, that forms halos around galaxies, which only interacts gravitationally with the matter of a galaxy, is in fact hypothetical gravitons (or strings vibrating in that mode), that have leaked into our universe, from other universes. All very interesting.

 

[Audie]

I consider the concept incoherent. Whatever exists and is causally connected to other existents is another aspect of nature. Why should we partition of a chunk of reality and say that it's not natural just because it's laws and substances might be unfamiliar to us?

Another aspect of the supernatural as commonly described that I find incoherent is that it is a realm outside of time and space that can influence our world but cannot be detected from it. Whatever affects any element of reality does so in time and space, and is detectable through that effect.

What this idea represents to me is a means for saying that what is not detectable is real anyway. To me, reality is the collection of objects and processes that are causally connected in time and space, that is, they can affect one another as cause and effect. A wolf exists because it meets those criteria.

The nonexistent have none of those qualities. They cannot be found anywhere at any time, and cannot modify things that do exist, like werewolves.

Everything real possesses all three qualities, anything imagined possess none of them. The supernatural is a sleight of hand that says that even though this realm is not in time or space, it's still real and can affect reality while being separate from it. Maybe the incoherence of that idea is apparent there now, and why such a construct is logically impossible. Nothing can be causally connected to reality yet undetectable or not existing in time (cause and effect require time for there to be prior and later states as does all action including thought and creative acts).

Little kids see things like a light
switch as magic becwuse they see
no connection between cause and effect.