Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[Trailblazer]

now your exposure, do you not say Jesus is God? but, was he not sent, and he's GOD.

Jesus is not God. Jesus was sent by God.
God did not send Himself. God sent Jesus.

Psalms 40:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"
Hebrews 10:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God."

What's your point? Please explain it directly and clearly in a way that can be understood.

Who do you think is speaking in Psalms 40:7?
Who do you think is speaking in Hebrews 10:7?

I do not know who is speaking in Psalms 40:7.
I believe it is Jesus speaking in Hebrews 10:7. Jesus came to do the will of God.

Then said I, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. is Jesus speaking to God, which means that Jesus is not God.

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.". STOP, Was he NOT "SENT?: .... (smile) ..... lol, lol, lol, Oh dear.

John 13:3 "Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;"

Again, what is your point?

Jesus was sent by the Father (God) so Jesus came forth from the Father (God).
After completing His mission on earth Jesus left the world and went back to the Father (God).
This is really not that difficult, when you understand that Jesus is the Son of God sent by God, not God the Father.

 

[Trailblazer]

Samtonga43 has just defined TWO GODS.

Why not? She believes God is God and Jesus is God. That's two Gods.
Trinitarians like her also believe that the Holy Spirit is God. That's three Gods.

Problem is, the Bible says there is only One God.

28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God

 

[Brian2]

First thanks for the reply, second, let's see what the bible has to say about "WITH" concerning God in an ECHAD of himself.
Scripture, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

notice the "LORD" all caps is God, RIGHT. now this. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
so, the "LORD", all caps is the First who is "WITH" the LAST correct. and Notice, he said, "I, I, I, AM he, I is a single person designation..
now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." and you do know what "ALSO" means, if not sure... look it up.

well Brian2, the Bible disagree with you. the First, (the LORD, all caps as in Deuteronomy 6:4, the same LORD), who is "ALSO" the Last, (the Lord, who is Jesus the Christ). for we have the Lord Jesus testimony, and you do know that he cannot LIE. let's hear it from him. Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." IS THIS NOT THE Lord JESUS? LET'S MAKE SURE, Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"

the only one who was dead and now alive is the Lord Jesus, Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

so we know that the FIRST and the LAST is the Lord Jesus, now question, "How many Person is Jesus?".... thank you, ONE PERSON, but did not the "LORD", all caps say he is the First? yes, but if he's a separate person, then one has two Gods. for the First who is the LORD CREATED and MADE ALL THINGS, and according to Isaiah 44:24 he was ALONE and BY HIMSELF. meaning that this is the same one Person. or as said you have two CREATORS, for John 1:3 speaking of the Word who was ... "WITH" God in the beginning, (John 1:1) in verse 3 MADE ALL THINGS. because he is the same person "GOD", (John 1:1c). so, either this is the same one person, else you have two Gods, meaning two CREATORS, or TWO FATHERS.

so, either men lied, or Isaiah 48:12 IS CORRECT. "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

your choice, God or men whom you choose to believe.

101G.

My opinion is that the personhood of the Son is plain from Him becoming a man and the distinction between the Father and the Son is also plain from that and from the Father calling from heaven and saying "This is my beloved Son......"
Yet the LORD is one and Jesus said that He and the Father are one something.
So the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.
It is not right to say that the Son is the Father and the Father is the Son.

You demonstrate that the trinity is hard to understand but you have not demonstrated that it is not in the Bible imo.

 

[Brian2]

Let's make this clear, the Word of God, in John 1:1b is "OBJECTIVE.", and "God" is SUBJECTIVE" , meaning it's the SAME ONE PERSON.

sorry about the play on words, but kust bringing out the TRUTH.

101G.

You would have to expand on that a bit for me to understand what you are saying.

 

[Brian2]

God and the word of God are both God?

God and the Word of God are distinct but are one.
The trinity is supposed to be hard to understand and you prove that.
So what you mainly do is use ad hominem and mock what you can't understand.

 

[samtonga43]

Why not? She believes God is God and Jesus is God. That's two Gods.
Trinitarians like her also believe that the Holy Spirit is God. That's three Gods.

Wrong. This is not what we believe. And every time you say something like this, you demonstrate your total ignorance of what tri-unity means and your total misunderstanding of explanations given to you on this forum. You are creating a strawman again.

Father is not Son
Father is not Holy Spirit

Holy Spirit is not Father.
Holy Spirit is not Son.

Son is not Father.
Son is not Holy Spirit.

God IS Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
One God (only one) existing as three Persons.

Problem is, the Bible says there is only One God.

Where's the problem? There IS only one God.

28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God

Yes, you got it. Only One God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where's the problem? There IS only one God.

The problem is that the Bible does not say that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
That is a man-made Christian doctrine.

 

[Soapy]

My opinion is that the personhood of the Son is plain from Him becoming a man and the distinction between the Father and the Son is also plain from that and from the Father calling from heaven and saying "This is my beloved Son......"
Yet the LORD is one and Jesus said that He and the Father are one something.
So the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.
It is not right to say that the Son is the Father and the Father is the Son.

You demonstrate that the trinity is hard to understand but you have not demonstrated that it is not in the Bible imo.

Brian, you are forever trying your deceitful half truth half lie presentations. Jesus did not say that he and the Father are one SOMETHING…!

What you did there was introduce a placeholder [Something] which if unnoticed would become a gateway to saying ‘God’.

Brian, since you are knowingly placing these deceptions into your posts it is clear you know that what you are doing is the work of the deceiver… I urge you to stop!

The truth is simply that it means the two are into each other - they agree. It’s as simple as that!

It’s also a strange thing that anyone should ARGUING AGAINST something that was never said, to wit: ‘The Father is the Son’.

But yet Trinitarians use that DENIAL as a proof that Jesus is God… isn’t that weird?

Yet check it out:

• The Father is God
• The Son is God
• THEREFORE the Father is the Son (God) and the Son is the Father (God)

That’s trinity fallacy in action.

Oops, did I say ‘The Father is the Son’. No one EVER as a trinitarian EVER said:

• ‘The Father is EQUAL to the Son’
• ‘God is EQUAL to the Son

…!! Isn’t that weird since they say that:

• ‘The Son is EQUAL to the Father’
• ‘The Son is EQUAL to God’!

Trinity always is a disconnect of logic, sense, and reality.

 

[Soapy]

God and the Word of God are distinct but are one.
The trinity is supposed to be hard to understand and you prove that.
So what you mainly do is use ad hominem and mock what you can't understand.

It sounds like you are getting very unsettled that your deceitful presentations are not having the impact you hoped they would have.

It’s been well noted that when Trinitarians are losing their fallacious arguments they always subscribe to claim ad hominem against them from their opponent!

 

[Soapy]

The problem is that the Bible does not say that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
That is a man-made Christian doctrine.

Man-made TRINITARIAN Christianity!!

 

[101G]

Jesus is not God. Jesus was sent by God.
God did not send Himself. God sent Jesus.

if what you say is true, my question to U is this, "WHO MADE ALL THINGS?" was it,
A. the Word of God, (who is Jesus), see John 1:3, or was it
B. The LORD, (who is JESUS), see (Isaiah 44:24).

YOUR answer please.

God did not send Himself. God sent Jesus.

is not Jesus, his/God, "OWN ARM?" scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

now, who is God's ... "OWN ARM?" .... think before you answer. then we will get to the rest of your post.

 

[101G]

My opinion is that the personhood of the Son is plain from Him becoming a man and the distinction between the Father and the Son is also plain from that and from the Father calling from heaven and saying "This is my beloved Son......"
Yet the LORD is one and Jesus said that He and the Father are one something.
So the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.
It is not right to say that the Son is the Father and the Father is the Son.

You demonstrate that the trinity is hard to understand but you have not demonstrated that it is not in the Bible imo.

first thanks for the reply, second the Soin is the Father in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. HE IS THE SAME PERSON. only in designation of Ordinal.

and Yes, the LORD, the Father is ONE .... in an ECHAD ... "WITH" ..... the Lord, the Son, as the same one person.

101G has demonstrate clearly that there is no trinity of three persons of God. that term "WITH" by itself eliminates any three person Godhead.

101G.

 

[101G]

You would have to expand on that a bit for me to understand what you are saying.

scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord." 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

101G.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is not God. Jesus was sent by God.
God did not send Himself. God sent Jesus.

What's your point? Please explain it directly and clearly in a way that can be understood.

Who do you think is speaking in Psalms 40:7?
Who do you think is speaking in Hebrews 10:7?

I do not know who is speaking in Psalms 40:7.
I believe it is Jesus speaking in Hebrews 10:7. Jesus came to do the will of God.

Then said I, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. is Jesus speaking to God, which means that Jesus is not God.

Again, what is your point?.

Jesus was sent by the Father (God) so Jesus came forth from the Father (God).
After completing His mission on earth Jesus left the world and went back to the Father (God).
This is really not that difficult, when you understand that Jesus is the Son of God sent by God, not God the Father.

Just a point against what you said :

I guarantee that you cannot post a scripture verse that states that Jesus ‘went back to the Father’!

And I do not mean ‘by those exact words’ but ‘by any set of words’!

Jesus being ‘Sent from the Father’, Jesus being ‘Sent by the Father’, is the time after Jesus was anointed BY THE FATHER and tested in the wilderness.

Jesus PASSED the test that showed he could resist temptation even though he was anointed with the POWER OF THE FATHER… which is what Phil 2 is referring to in saying that: ‘Though he was in the form of God he did not think to be equal to God BUT INSTEAD lowered himself to the form of a [bormal] man - which is to say, he thirsted, hungered, bled, needed sleep, did not carry out miracles to his own advantage… which were three temptations set to him by Satan in the wilderness - three of which you can be sure there were plenty more not documented.

Note that God does not have a ‘form’ (shape) which man can imitate or put the self in. Therefore the term ‘form of God’ and ‘form of man’ does not mean ‘shape’. It means more like, ‘Mindset of Ability’.

Note also the previous verse in Phil 2:

• “In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus” (Phil 2:5)

So if it is going to be said that Jesus is God because he didn’t think being equal to God was worthy (?) then there is a problem with this verse which states that a worthy man must try to imitate Jesus in his mindset… the mindset which Trinitarians say is God Almighty.

What an insult it is for mankind to say, ‘I desire to be equal to God’, yet God says, ‘There is no one like me… beside me there is no God!’

I mean, like, what does this translation mean:

• “Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.” (Phil 2:6)

The term ‘cling to’ is a false translation. The true translation is ‘Grasp at’. ‘Cling to’ means he already HAS A GRASP… ‘Grasp at’ means REACHING OUT TO TRY TO TAKE HOLD.

It makes no sense to say that someone who is God did not think that being God was worthy ability.

It does make sense to say that someone who has been GRANTED POWER should moderate themself so as not to try to become equal to him who gave him that power!

So questions arise:
1. How is Jesus GOD and think of being EQUAL to GOD?
2. How can GOD think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile?
3. How can there be such a thing as ‘God being equal to himself’? Equality requires two entities to compare!

Such thoughts are straight out of the Deceiver’s handbook!

 

[Trailblazer]

if what you say is true, my question to U is this, "WHO MADE ALL THINGS?" was it,
A. the Word of God, (who is Jesus), see John 1:3, or was it
B. The LORD, (who is JESUS), see (Isaiah 44:24).

YOUR answer please.

The answer is that the Lord God made all things.

The following verse refers to the Lord God, not to Jesus. It is true that Jesus was a redeemer, but so was the Lord God.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

is not Jesus, his/God, "OWN ARM?" scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

now, who is God's ... "OWN ARM?" .... think before you answer. then we will get to the rest of your post.

Isaiah 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

We know this verse is not God speaking since God never needs any help.
This verse is Isaiah speaking, so the question is: Who is Isaiah's own arm?

I think the following interpretation is valid. Isaiah looked and there was no nobody who could help him. He had only his own arm.

Isaiah 63:5-6. I looked, and there was none to help — “Things were come to that extremity, that there was no appearance of succour by any human means. Those who, by their office and character, ought to have stood up in defence of oppressed truth and righteousness, even they, contrary to what might have been justly expected, betrayed so good a cause, or had not the courage to defend it. So that it was time for God to interpose, and to appear in defence of his own honour and people.” Therefore my own arm, &c.

Isaiah 63:5 Commentaries: "I looked, and there was no one to help, And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold; So My own arm brought salvation to Me, And My wrath upheld Me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just a point against what you said :

I guarantee that you cannot post a scripture verse that states that Jesus ‘went back to the Father’!

And I do not mean ‘by those exact words’ but ‘by any set of words’!

Jesus went back to the Father when He left this world and ascended to heaven.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

So questions arise:
1. How is Jesus GOD and think of being EQUAL to GOD?
2. How can GOD think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile?
3. How can there be such a thing as ‘God being equal to himself’? Equality requires two entities to compare!

1. How is Jesus GOD and think of being EQUAL to GOD?
Jesus was not God and Jesus did not think He was equal to God.

2. How can GOD think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile?
God could not think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile, since it is logically impossible for God to think of being equal to Himself since there is nothing to compare Himself to.

3. How can there be such a thing as ‘God being equal to himself’? Equality requires two entities to compare!
Exactly. It is logically impossible for God to think of being equal to Himself since there is nothing to compare Himself to.

 

[Truthseeker]

Jesus went back to the Father when He left this world and ascended to heaven.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

1. How is Jesus GOD and think of being EQUAL to GOD?
Jesus was not God and Jesus did not think He was equal to God.

2. How can GOD think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile?
God could not think that being EQUAL to himself was not something worthwhile, since it is logically impossible for God to think of being equal to Himself since there is nothing to compare Himself to.

3. How can there be such a thing as ‘God being equal to himself’? Equality requires two entities to compare!
Exactly. It is logically impossible for God to think of being equal to Himself since there is nothing to compare Himself to.

Psst. @Trailblazer, when will we meet by Zoom? I sent an Email to you asking you that. I see that you you are here, maybe you will now answer my Email?

 

[Trailblazer]

Psst. @Trailblazer, when will we meet by Zoom? I sent an Email to you asking you that. I see that you you are here, maybe you will now answer my Email?

You always know where you can find me.
Sorry Duane. I was just about to answer that e-mail. I was busy in the grief-share group at the church this morning and I wanted to get my new thread posted before answering your e-mail.

 

[Truthseeker]

You always know where you can find me.
Sorry Duane. I was just about to answer that e-mail. I was busy in the grief-share group at the church this morning and I wanted to get my new thread posted before answering your e-mail.

Yes, just before I left here I saw you post a new thread. Now I'm back. In the meantime I was watching television with Sara, then alone watching the new episode of Law & Order. Then goofing around on the computer.

 

[Brian2]

Brian, you are forever trying your deceitful half truth half lie presentations. Jesus did not say that he and the Father are one SOMETHING…!

When the gospel says "I and the Father are "one", the one is neuter gender, meaning, one thing,,,,,,,,,,, iow something.

What you did there was introduce a placeholder [Something] which if unnoticed would become a gateway to saying ‘God’.

So even you can see the ramifications of what Jesus said.

The truth is simply that it means the two are into each other - they agree. It’s as simple as that!

"into each other- they agree"? Into each other--- I had to laugh.
The reason that the language scholars and commentators mention the neuter "one" is to show that it cannot mean just that they agree, or are in harmony.

It’s also a strange thing that anyone should ARGUING AGAINST something that was never said, to wit: ‘The Father is the Son’.

But yet Trinitarians use that DENIAL as a proof that Jesus is God… isn’t that weird?

Trinitarians make that denial because many people seem to think that the Bible teaches that the Son is the Father. These are usually people who can at least see that the Bible does teach that the Father is God and that the Son is God.

Yet check it out:

• The Father is God
• The Son is God
• THEREFORE the Father is the Son (God) and the Son is the Father (God)

That’s trinity fallacy in action.

If you added the idea that there is just one God, that argument would make sense, but when you also add the idea that the Father is not the Son and that the Son is not the Father, you cannot reach the conclusion that the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father.
IOWs the truth of God is more complex than that. And why should it not be, we are speaking of God here and not something simple like quantum mechanics.

Oops, did I say ‘The Father is the Son’. No one EVER as a trinitarian EVER said:

• ‘The Father is EQUAL to the Son’
• ‘God is EQUAL to the Son

…!! Isn’t that weird since they say that:

• ‘The Son is EQUAL to the Father’
• ‘The Son is EQUAL to God’!

Trinity always is a disconnect of logic, sense, and reality.

It is the Son who gets His life from His Father and it is the Son who became a servant and a man. The language used of the Son is misinterpreted therefore to mean that the Son is lesser in nature to His Father. Many trinity deniers therefore say the Son is not equal to the Father.
Sooooo trinitarians need to spend a lot of time showing the mistakes in that interpretation and that the Bible does indeed teach that the Son is equal in nature to His Father.