Does the Bible justify war?

[sojourner]

That's just picking and choosing. The fact is, there are parts of the Bible the promote war and there are parts that don't. You can't just arbitrarily choose the parts that you like and say that it has an overall message which contains only the good parts and ignores the rest.


.

That's not what I'm doing. At all. An overall message is just that -- an overall message.
The texts are so polyvalent that it's difficult to extract an overall message -- and we do so through the lens of our own culture, and not necessarily through the lens of the cultures of the writers. God's love for God's people is the overall theme. As the texts progress from Hebrew to Greek, the tone of that love and the scope of those included in that group becomes more inclusive. In the OT, many times God loves God's people by giving them victory over their enemies. in the NT, God loves us by creating peace. You tell me what the overall message is. My take is that it is more peaceful than warlike.

 

[elcazador]

Right, people and politics...AKA Religion. Have you seen the absolute carnage that the Catholic church perpetrated throughout the past centuries? Or the men who flew those airliners into our towers? It was all MOTIVATED by religion. If you want decent people to do evil things just make them religious. If you have a group of people who accept, without question or demand of proof, an obviously man made book, and quote passages from it to justify their savagery, you have a group of people who will do anything you tell them to do.

Because people who are Catholic do terrible things does not mean the Catholic church does terrible things, that is impossible. you cannot distort something because people who claim to act on part of it simply are not able to represent something which at it's essence cannot translate into the actions of the human body. what i'm wondering is whether people of individual faiths have used their understandings of their book's texts to justify war. as far as i know the crusades were just a bunch of idiots arguing over land disregarding that they are committing murder for it, and 9/11 are a bunch of people who decided they despised the west for intruding on their land, which was foolish and racist being that "their land" is what we consider the middle east, despite the fact that muslims live everywhere else. what I want to know is how people, frankly, misinterpret their holy books to justify sin. if religion is politics then we are all religious politicians, good generalizing sir.

 

[elcazador]

"The LORD is a man of WAR; the LORD is his name."
-– Exodus 15:3



.

how is this made to make sense

 

[Tathagata]

how is this made to make sense

Ask the authors of the Bible. I didn't write it. Anyways, that quote proves you wrong because you claim that people misninterpret their holy books to justify sin, yet this quote is quite clear the Yahweh is very much a warmonger.

.

 

[Pegg]

Does it?!

it justifies righteous warfare against those who seek to harm the innocent.

 

[elcazador]

Ask the authors of the Bible. I didn't write it. Anyways, that quote proves you wrong because you claim that people misninterpret their holy books to justify sin, yet this quote is quite clear the Yahweh is very much a warmonger.

.

actually the hebrew is supposed to translate into Yahweh is the hero of the battle, but thank you for sharing as it's obvious why the wrong translation has been kept around

 

[Tathagata]

actually the hebrew is supposed to translate into Yahweh is the hero of the battle, but thank you for sharing as it's obvious why the wrong translation has been kept around

Wow! Thanks for clearing that up! Your evidence is so well sourced and documented!

Wait, nevermind. I don't see any evidence for your assertion. Please provide it.

.

 

[elcazador]

Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
note the variation.

 

[Tathagata]

Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
note the variation.

Uh, yeah, and all the variations were the same. They simply replaced "Lord" with "Yahweh" and "Almighty." The statement still means the same.

Then below that, you had a man giving commentary simply reiterating what you said yet also provided zero evidence for his assertion.

So is this verse here also translated wrong?

"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."
-- Genesis 7:4



.

 

[elcazador]

Uh, yeah, and all the variations were the same. They simply replaced "Lord" with "Yahweh" and "Almighty." The statement still means the same.

Then below that, you had a man giving commentary simply reiterating what you said yet also provided zero evidence for his assertion.

So is this verse here also translated wrong?

"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."
-- Genesis 7:4



.

That's not human war at all.. an omniscent being I am fine taking my presence on earth, as I know his intent. A man taking my life for the sake of poor reasoning is entirely different. That Exodus quote was not meant to mean "I AM WAR SO KILL THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE" it was meant to be refer to the battle of pure good and evil beyond this reality, not men with muskets who think they should have land because their messiah walked on it.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Humans have labelled the *whole* as *God* which is unlimited and eternal and it has all the qualities imaginable but still cannot be completed.
Bible like any other religion or path or way has tried to describe at best through human minds about such qualities as the human minds have perceived which may appear to be contradictory as It has been liked as both *war* and *peace*; it all depends on the perceiver's [mind] own mood and words used which as explained will always be limited and so all discussions/debates will eventually remain limited.
Love & rgds

Is God warlike or peaceful?
God is warlike God is peaceful
Exodus 15:3
The Lord is a man of war.
Psalm 18:34
He teacheth my hands to war.
Psalm 144:1
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Romans 15:33
The God of Peace.
1 Corinthians 14:33
God is not the author of confusion but of peace.
2 Thessalonians 3:16
The Lord of peace himself give you peace always.
Hebrews 13:20
The God of peace....
Christian Responses

 

[elcazador]

beautiful.

 

[Tathagata]

That's not human war at all.. an omniscent being I am fine taking my presence on earth, as I know his intent. A man taking my life for the sake of poor reasoning is entirely different. That Exodus quote was not meant to mean "I AM WAR SO KILL THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE" it was meant to be refer to the battle of pure good and evil beyond this reality, not men with muskets who think they should have land because their messiah walked on it.

Are you sure about that?

"Thou shalt utterly destroy them - the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee." - Deuteronomy 20:17

Looks like a human war of different tribes and land to me. That's not a metaphorical battle of good vs. evil.


.

 

[Where Is God]

The Bible says "Do not murder." That directly contradicts war. However, the Bible IS USED to justify war. So to answer your question, no.

 

[Tathagata]

The Bible says "Do not murder." That directly contradicts war.

False. Clearly you do not understand the difference between "murder" and "killing." Murder is unlawful killing, i.e. killing not ok'd by God. Basically "Do not murder" means "No killing unless I say so" and of course, we all know God tells people to kill all the time, and if not, he does the killing himself.

So "do not murder" does not contradict war, in fact, it is directly consistent with war.

However, the Bible IS USED to justify war. So to answer your question, no.

Again, you are false.

"Thou shalt utterly destroy them - the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee."
-- Deuteronomy 20:17

"And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless."
-- Exodus 22:24



.

 

[Where Is God]

False. Clearly you do not understand the difference between "murder" and "killing." Murder is unlawful killing, i.e. killing not ok'd by God. Basically "Do not murder" means "No killing unless I say so" and of course, we all know God tells people to kill all the time, and if not, he does the killing himself.

So "do not murder" does not contradict war, in fact, it is directly consistent with war.

Again, you are false.

"Thou shalt utterly destroy them - the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee."
-- Deuteronomy 20:17

"And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless."
-- Exodus 22:24



.

Apparently, no one really knows the Bible. I have been told it says "kill" and that it says "murder". It just depends on what version you read. Either way, taking a life is taking a life don't get a ****** attitude with me.


These texts justify war that already happened. It does not outline when war today is justified. Clearly, your an idiot.

Regardless, the Bible is untruthful therefore meaningless.

 

[Tathagata]

Apparently, no one really knows the Bible. I have been told it says "kill" and that it says "murder". It just depends on what version you read. Either way, taking a life is taking a life don't get a ****** attitude with me.

Again, you are missing the point. You claimed that "Do not murder" directly contradicts war, and my counter-point was that "Do not murder" directly PERMITS war because war could be defined as lawful killing if the war is commanded by God.

These texts justify war that already happened. It does not outline when war today is justified. Clearly, your an idiot.

"When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat ALL the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby"
[Deuteronomy 20:13]

You see, these commands apply to all enemies and all foreigners, no matter what time period it is.

Regardless, the Bible is untruthful therefore meaningless.

Non-sequitur. Things that are fiction can still have meaning. Regardless, the Bible is FAR from meaningless whether it's true or not. It's sphere of influence is massive and provides meaning for all those who believe, and even affects those who do not believe.


.

 

[Where Is God]

Again, you are missing the point. You claimed that "Do not murder" directly contradicts war, and my counter-point was that "Do not murder" directly PERMITS war because war could be defined as lawful killing if the war is commanded by God.

"When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat ALL the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby"
[Deuteronomy 20:13]

You see, these commands apply to all enemies and all foreigners, no matter what time period it is.

Non-sequitur. Things that are fiction can still have meaning. Regardless, the Bible is FAR from meaningless whether it's true or not. It's sphere of influence is massive and provides meaning for all those who believe, and even affects those who do not believe.


.

You are correct, the definition of murder is the unlawful intentional murder of a human. In all instances, it is illegal to kill someone in America, therefore all killing is murder.

I did not say that the Bible was not influential, I said it was meaningless, implying to me.

 

[Tathagata]

You are correct, the definition of murder is the unlawful intentional murder of a human. In all instances, it is illegal to kill someone in America, therefore all killing is murder.

First of all, I don't let American laws define morality for me. In fact, I find American law to be incredibly stupid i.e. marijuana being illegal, so I am surprised you would even appeal to such a flawed legal system. Secondly, in America, it IS legal to kill someone in MANY cases. For example, it's legal for the military to kill people. It's legal for the state to kill people through the death penalty. It's legal for the police to kill people who they feel pose a threat.



.

 

[Where Is God]

First of all, I don't let American laws define morality for me. In fact, I find American law to be incredibly stupid i.e. marijuana being illegal, so I am surprised you would even appeal to such a flawed legal system. Secondly, in America, it IS legal to kill someone in MANY cases. For example, it's legal for the military to kill people. It's legal for the state to kill people through the death penalty. It's legal for the police to kill people who they feel pose a threat.



.

The military doesn't reall kill here in America, most cops shoot to incapacitate, I hate American government anyways my argument was not reflecting my atitude towards it. Marijuana and all other drugs should be legal. Death penalty is ********.