Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

Deut. 29:28 "...and the revealed [things are] for us and our children forever to do all the things of this Torah".

With your emphasis I understand why you interpret the verses to mean the Torah as recorded will be the unchanging law of G-d that will apply to the Jewish people forever and will never change. Having reflected on the text of Young’s literal and the KJV I don’t see it personally.

Allowances always need to be made for a particular setting as you have already acknowldeged. What the word Torah mean’s is G-d's Teaching, Law or Instruction. The Torah as recorded in the Tanakh should be the founding document for Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. The Baha’is don’t alter it.

The problem for the Muslim's is they have disregarded the clear statements in the Quran as to the Torah and imagined the Torah is corrupted and superseded by the Quran to the extent that they give it no regards other than lip service. The Christians acknowledge the authenticity of what is written but have strayed far in their interpretations of both the Torah and Gospels. The problem isn’t Christ or Muhammad but their followers.

Any Prophet that disrepects the Torah by stating it is corrupted or clearly misinterpret the Torah is not a Prophet. However that’s completely different from having varying interpretations where one group accuses the other of being heretical.

Many of the 613 Laws are not applicable simply because they are situational and those conditions are not met today. But I'd like to hear about some commandments that we perform today, that you believe is not applicable for the modern era.

Of course the exigencies of every age need to be considered as to the applicability of all the laws. It is for the Jewish people to work that through in regards current circumstances as to the nation of Israel. Baha’is avoid involving themselves in politics and criticising governments. There are exceptions but the nation of Israel isn’t one of them.

That's not what you said earlier.

I'm a Baha'i. Being a Baha'i can be easy or it can be hard. Baha'is pray daily to G-d, recite from the Holy writings twice daily, and recite the Greatest name of G-d daily. We make concerted efforts to understand our faith and put it into practice whether at work, service to the wider community, family or our faith community. We each teach our faith in accordance to our capacity to those who are interested. So there's more to it than being a Noahide.

The point of the terms is to put the matter into the right perspective. You call it a diaspora, but what it really is, is an exile. Actually, our commentaries see the image of Daniel 2 as a reference to these: The gold is the Babylonians, the silver Persia/Media, the copper Greece. And the legs of iron that become iron and clay is the last exile, the Roman exile that turned into a double exile, one under the West and one under the East.

I’m good with calling the diaspora a double exile and it brings us back to the question of the OP. Since the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD Israel has been occupied by two significant powers. The Islamic Caliphates from the 7th to 20th century (with a small break due to the crusades) and the Roman Empire during the centuries after 70 AD. So the feet of clay are not just the Roman Empire but Islamic too. It relates to the beasts in Daniel 7. The fourth beast in Daniel 7:19-26 is different from the previous three as Daniel notes. So there is Islam in the Tanakh!

Absolutely not. G-d is unchanging and He said that His Laws are eternal. How could He contradict Himself?

Have you not rendered G-d impotent by that interpretation?

It depends in what. When it comes to religious issues, obviously not. When it comes to national issues, like for inttance the recent Pittsburgh shooting, there's plenty of unity.

The Jewish member of our cities interfaith council had personal connections with two of the victims.

So have I got this wrong?

The future can only be faintly imagined. Any nation that becomes a Baha'i nation is because the majority of its inhabitants are Baha'i and voluntarily chooses a Baha'i approach to governance. Same deal with a world commonwealth. The Baha'i Faith advocates the elimination of all prejudices based on race, nationality and religion. So Baha'is should not see themselves as inherently superior as anyone else because of the colour of their skin, the country they live in or even which religion they identify with.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What is Gods name according to the scriptures you quote ? YHWH, NOT Allah. Therefore these scriptures cannot apply to any other god.

YHWH is Hebrew for G-d and Allah is Arabic for G-d. You're strengthening my argument that its the same G-d.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Then why isn't a single name for Allah in Islam, "LOVE". Both testaments teach the love of God.

I doubt if your read any of the list I provided.

All-compassionate
The Beneficent
The Most merciful
The Giver of Peace
The Absolute Forgiver
The Ever-Watchful
The Gentle/Subtly Kind
The Forebearing
The affectionate
Loving One
The Giver of Life
The Enricher
The Guide to the right path.

These are all qualities of G-d based on the Quran.

...Then why does the Qu'ran say, "God forbid that God has a Son" and Jesus said in the Bible, "God have His unique Son to save the world..."

The Gospel affirms Jesus was the spiritual Son of G-d, the Quran affirms He was not the physical son of God.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You said ( The number 666 refers to this dynasty and this number is mentioned just once on the book of Revelation 13:18)

The number 666 is mention three times in the book of Revelation. If you put together all about the seal, trumpet and Vial, in Revelation. What and who the seals, trumpets and Vails all represents and who.

In the book of Revelation who will find
7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 Vials.

The 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial, adds up to the number 666, which is the number of Satan.
The 7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th vial, adds up to the number 777 which represents Christ Jesus. 777 is the number of completion, completeness. God's Holy number of Completion, Completeness.

I agree that the number 7 is a Holy number representing completeness.

The first six seals are lots of bad things happening, so there isn't anything particularly 'Satanic' about the sixth seal as opposed to the previous five seals. Same deal the trumpet blasts. All seven of the bowls are pretty awful.

Seven seals - Wikipedia

Seven trumpets - Wikipedia

Seven bowls - Wikipedia

So only one mention of 666 in the book of revelation.

You said--->( Revelation 12:3-4 reads “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”)

Notice ( And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth)

What are these Stars according to the book of Revelation.

In Revelation 1:20 We find the stars representing Angels of heaven.
Revelation 1:20---"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches)

If the beast represents the Umayyad dynasty then the stars cast down to earth are four of the twelve Imams of Shi'a Islam murdered as a result of this regime. According to Shi'a Islam the Imams, not the Caliphates were the rightful successors to Muhammad. This is how Islam came to be corrupted early in its history.

The Twelve Imams - Wikipedia

 

[shmogie]

YHWH is Hebrew for G-d and Allah is Arabic for G-d. You're strengthening my argument that its the same G-d.

no. YHWH, the tetragrammaton, are the are the consonants of the name of the one true God of Israel, without the vowels, as the name is never to be spoken. It doesn´t stand for the word of GOD, it is the name of the only God there is. Some try and pronounce it, I do not. Nevertheless there are lots of gods, gods just called gods, Paul spoke of the unknown god in Athens. The name of the one true God is YHWH, a specific name, all others are false.

 

[Dawnofhope]

no. YHWH, the tetragrammaton, are the are the consonants of the name of the one true God of Israel, without the vowels, as the name is never to be spoken. It doesn´t stand for the word of GOD, it is the name of the only God there is. Some try and pronounce it, I do not. Nevertheless there are lots of gods, gods just called gods, Paul spoke of the unknown god in Athens. The name of the one true God is YHWH, a specific name, all others are false.

G-d is neither ethnocentric nor racist. He is the G-d of all Creation. The problem comes when we imagine G-d in our own image. In truth He transcends all and has created us all in His own image (Genesis 1:27).

 

[Tumah]

Thats good, you see it as you choose to, that to us all, is a G_d given gift.

I see the Sun rises each day, it is eternal an gives life. Here on earth we all see that Sun from a different angle and some have 4 seasons some have 2 seasons etc.

If a person, because they live in a part of the world that has 4 seasons says that is the only way it is, then?

I see G_d is more than we restrict G_d to by our interpretation of the Revealed Word. If G_d has chosen to explain further what is meant by the Changeless Face of God and what is subject to change, then who am I so say otherwise?

Regards Tony

A better argument, I think, would have been to address:

1. How something can be both eternal and abrogated
2. How something can be both changeless and changed
3. How you can accept as true any work that suggests the opposite of a principle already established by G-d.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The glitch is that the 1260 days, forty two weeks, or 3 1/2 days, no matter what it is referring to in the context, is always made to mean the time between 621AD and 1844AD. Each beast or dragon or whatever is doing something for a specific amount of time that started at some point in time. That time was not 621AD.

I guess we have to start from the basics. The two major religions in the world numerically are Christianity and Islam. Between these two faiths we have about 60% of the worlds population. With each religion there is a Calendar, Gregorian solar for the Christians and the Islamic lunar for the Muslims. The starting point for the Christians is the birth of Christ and for the Muslims the Hegira in 610. Then we have the beginning of the Badi calendar with the declaration of the Bab in 1844. So from the Hegira to in year 610 to 1844 that’s 1234 years. If we take the lunar years as we are talking about events in Islamic territory then it’s 1260 years. The number 1260 is mentioned several times in the Bible expressed as a unit of time. The day for a year prophecy is well supported.

Day-year principle - Wikipedia

We can use it to calculate the period of time from the order to rebuild Jerusalem to the crucifixion of Christ through Daniel 9:24-27. We can use it to calculate the Return of Christ as William Miller did.



Miller's interpretation of the 2300 days prophecy time-line and its relation to the 70 weeks prophecy

William Miller (preacher) - Wikipedia

Tribulations accompanying the advent of a Messiah is not the question. The Baha'i find Muhammad in Revelation. One of those times he is the "First Woe" another time he is one of the "Two Witnesses". These things are two chapters apart. So you've already had all three "Woes" and then the prophecy goes back to Muhammad? And for good measure the prophecy throws in Ali?

The book of Revelation is a little like Daniel in that it weaves backwards and forwards repeating the same prophecies but with added details. More than half the chapters in Revelation have references to Islam. The mention of Ali the first Imam is an important detail. If Ali had succeeded Muhammad then Islam would never have been corrupted as it was.

Yes prophecies are vague and almost anything can be made to sound like it fits. But, what I see as another glitch in the Baha'i explanation is that most of the prophecies relate to Muhammad and the evil dragons and beasts that are the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties. These things are centuries old. They avoid everything about the rise of the West and Christianity and their "beast" powers. And, since Baha'u'llah has come and gone, I would imagine that Revelation should be done with. But since Baha'u'llah, we've had two world wars and almost a third. It seems very possible that the prophecies are still going on.

Islam has spanned over 1400 of the 1900+ years since the book of Revelations was written. I’m hearing Islam isn’t mentioned at all from some. Now it’s Islam is mentioned too much.

There’s plenty there about Christianity too. Many of the principles of corrupted theology over the millennia are applicable to Christianity.

The period covering the two world wars was the apocalypse. I saw the stars fall from heaven and how the sun of G-d’s Revelation was dimmed. The moon of the Holy Teachings ran red with blood as Europe the heart of Christendom became the stage for unspeakable abominations.

It took over 300 years from the birth of Christ until it’s temporal authority was established. It didn’t happen without tribulations and sacrifice. It’s star rose in glorious splendour. Now it has fallen for all with eyes to see.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

YHWH is Hebrew for G-d and Allah is Arabic for G-d. You're strengthening my argument that its the same G-d.

Also YHVH is Hes name, and Allah in Arabic is the literal title 'God'. In Hebrew it is Elloh.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

I agree that the number 7 is a Holy number representing completeness.

The first six seals are lots of bad things happening, so there isn't anything particularly 'Satanic' about the sixth seal as opposed to the previous five seals. Same deal the trumpet blasts. All seven of the bowls are pretty awful.

Seven seals - Wikipedia

Seven trumpets - Wikipedia

Seven bowls - Wikipedia

So only one mention of 666 in the book of revelation.



If the beast represents the Umayyad dynasty then the stars cast down to earth are four of the twelve Imams of Shi'a Islam murdered as a result of this regime. According to Shi'a Islam the Imams, not the Caliphates were the rightful successors to Muhammad. This is how Islam came to be corrupted early in its history.

The Twelve Imams - Wikipedia

The Sunni and Shia are upholding fabrications besides the Quran. So you can't call them the Beast. You shouldn't take the Sunnis and Shia serious, they believe their Mahdi, which is not mentioned in the Quran, will lead prayer and Jesus Christ will pray behind him according to their fabricated system etc.. they even believe that Jesus Christ will rule the world with their system of 'Islaam'.
Note, this is not mentioned in the Quran, but in the fabricated books they uphold besides the Quran. And they believe Christ will destroy the Cross, while nothing like that is mentioned in the Quran! And they believe Christ will die 40 years later after he defeated 'the anti-Christ' etc. and they will pray for them according to their sectarian 'Islaam'.

Nothing is mentioned about a second coming of Christ and a Mahdi in the Quran. The Sunnis and Shia just borrowed that from the Gospel and made their own twist of it.

I also think that calling the Shia or Sunnis the Beast is a little short sighted. If you read Revelation, the Beast is clearly the Nations, which now represent the EU, and the Dragon is clearly the UK/Vatican.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Sunni and Shia are upholding fabrications besides the Quran. So you can't call them the Beast. You shouldn't take the Sunnis and Shia serious, they believe their Mahdi, which is not mentioned in the Quran, will lead prayer and Jesus Christ will pray behind him according to their fabricated system etc.. they even believe that Jesus Christ will rule the world with their system of 'Islaam'.
Note, this is not mentioned in the Quran, but in the fabricated books they uphold besides the Quran. And they believe Christ will destroy the Cross, while nothing like that is mentioned in the Quran! And they believe Christ will die 40 years later after he defeated 'the anti-Christ' etc. and they will pray for them according to their sectarian 'Islaam'.

Nothing is mentioned about a second coming of Christ and a Mahdi in the Quran. The Sunnis and Shia just borrowed that from the Gospel and made their own twist of it.

I also think that calling the Shia or Sunnis the Beast is a little short sighted. If you read Revelation, the Beast is clearly the Nations, which now represent the EU, and the Dragon is clearly the UK/Vatican.

However you look at it, Islam became corrupted early in its history. The Baha'is regard Ali as Muhammad's successor and the Imams as rightly guided. Ali did become Caliph but he was poisoned by Ali-Walid I.

Al-Walid I - Wikipedia

It is not Shia or Sunni that was the dragon but the Umayyad Caliphate that existd from 661 - 750 AD.

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

The dragon is simply used to depict an Empire as other Empires were depicted in Daniel 7. If we consider Revelation 12:3-4:

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

The seven heads and seven crowns mean seven countries and dominions over which the Umayyads had power: they were the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa—Tunis, Morocco and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia; and the dominion of Transoxania. The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers —the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.

The Catholic Church has certainly had times of being extremely corrupted too and at times could be a close contender for the title dragon along with the Umayyads. I don't see the European Union as having any relationship to the beast at all, but am aware this used to be a popular idea amongst some fundamentalist Christians. You are welcome to make a case as to how this could be true.

Although the Hadiths are not relaible like the Quran which is authenticated, they are vitally important sources of information as well as being the basis for both the second coming of Christ and the Mahdi prophecy. The second coming of Christ is supported by the gospels and New Testament.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I agree that the number 7 is a Holy number representing completeness.

The first six seals are lots of bad things happening, so there isn't anything particularly 'Satanic' about the sixth seal as opposed to the previous five seals. Same deal the trumpet blasts. All seven of the bowls are pretty awful.<---wrong, this all shows, very little understanding about the book of Revelation. For everything that is given in Revelation, it's also been explained in Revelation what everything is and who they represents.

Seven seals - Wikipedia <---wrong

Seven trumpets - Wikipedia <----wrong

Seven bowls - Wikipedia <---wrong

So only one mention of 666 in the book of revelation. <--- that's right 666 only mention in Revelation.



If the beast represents the Umayyad dynasty then the stars cast down to earth are four of the twelve Imams of Shi'a Islam murdered as a result of this regime. According to Shi'a Islam the Imams, not the Caliphates were the rightful successors to Muhammad. This is how Islam came to be corrupted early in its history.

The Twelve Imams - Wikipedia

The beast does not represent ( Umayyad)
Nor does the stars represents four of the twelve Imams.
It's all been explained in Revelation who the beast is and who the stars are.

It's been explained in Revelation what the number 666 represents and who it represents.
It seems have a hard time in keeping up with the program in Revelation.
For everything that is given in Revelation, it's all been explained in Revelation as to who and what everything represents.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The reason why the Jewish leaders rejected Christ was because of their own false expectation about what the Messiah was supposed to do.....from their perspective, it obviously didn't include extreme criticism of their hypocritical application of the Law. (Matthew 23)

Agreed.

LOL.....the fundamental problem is that this is what we all do....the other fundamental truth is that only one view is correct, which means that there are a lot of deluded people in this situation. Why does God allow this? (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) He simply allows people to believe whatever they want. It's an exercise of their free will. He does not leave himself without testimony or witnesses.

It is true that we all have an attachment to our worldviews, you and I included. I see that most of us here have some degree of truth and understanding of life. I'm just an ordinary guy making his way in the world and have nothing unique or special to offer. As soon as we have a religion that tells us we are special and has this unique monopoly on truth no one else has then that is dangerous, perhaps even Satanic. We increasingly exist in a bubble of people who think as we do. Our unique absolutely true world view isn't challenged and our perverse belief that everyone is wrong apart from us is reinforced. So we all have truth and all are deluded. What greater to delusion than to believe everyone is deluded other than us.

Since Jesus foretold that even Christianity was going to be corrupted in much the same way as Judaism, (introducing the traditions of men as a virtual substitute for the word of God) it is not surprising that the situation exists on a grand scale in Christianity, with its multitude of denominations, mirroring the situation in Judaism in Jesus' day, only worse. Sectarianism broke it up into bickering sects, all of which were rejected by Jesus. From Christ's perspective, none of them were correct until he led a righteous few out of that corrupt system. I believe he views all false worship the same way and today he has also led a righteous group out of another corrupt religious system. "Sheep and goats"....that's all there is. One is right....the rest are wrong. We choose which camp feels like home.

I agree that Christ did foretell that Christianity would become corrupt and the parable of the tares illustrates that nicely. Jesus taught us to heed the signs and Christianity being hopelessly divided is definitely a sign. What the world needs now is unity. The divided body of Christ can not unite a divided and distracted world. However we can be united with anyone through working alongside other in acts of service for the betterment of humanity. That is how I understand Matthew 25:31-46. Heal the sick, feed the hungry, support the needy. If we can't lift a finger to help others what are we about?

It is also pointless looking at numbers to bolster a religion's status, since Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life (Matthew 7:13-14) That means that the majority of mankind are travelling along a superhighway to death. The devil will laughing all the way to their demise. But then he will eventually have to face his own

One sincere soul is better than a thousand insincere ones. One previous peeble on the beach is worth all the grains of sands.

Seriously? You think this is all that is required? Isaiah said of Israel...."And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood." (Isaiah 1:15 ASV)

Islam promotes all the noble and praiseworthy characteristics in man that Christianity teaches. What is it about human virtue and the path of G-d that Christianity has over Islam?

Any religion that promotes bloodshed does not have God's sanction. Jesus promoted peace. His disciples had to be 'merciful' "peacemakers" (Matthew 5:3-11) That hardly describes sharia law.

How does Islam promote bloodshed? What did Muhammad teach that promoted the shedding of innocent people? Tell me from the Quran? Don't tell me based on what you have heard from others. See with your own eyes, not the eyes of others. Know of your own knowledge, not the knowledge of those that don't take the time to investigate matters for themselves.

Why not do some reading. Tell me the problems with Sharia law. Do keep in mind it was revealed in the 7th century and so like some laws of the Torah would no longer be applicable.

Sharia - Wikipedia

This applied to no one but John the Baptist. Jesus made no other application. John alone prepared the way for the Messiah, whom he clearly identified as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"....Jesus was to come only once in the flesh, which he sacrificed for our sins. His second appearance was not to be fleshly, but in spirit. He was granted immortality on his return to heaven and could not ever die again.

I've already demonstrated that history can repeat itself in religion and that signs that accompanied Moses and Christ may also accompany other Messiah's or Christs.

What Did Jesus Mean?

I believe that there is someone who wants you to think so.....but it isn't true. If Muslims and Jews worship the same God and Christians do too....then something is horribly wrong. In each of those religious systems, people are waiting for vastly different outcomes. They cant all be right.

Of course you believe Satan is trying to delude me. I'm trying to educate you about Islam and think beyond the propoganda lol. Muslims too are awaiting the Return of Christ.

Second Coming - Wikipedia

In the first century, the "Gentile Times" (the period of Gentile domination of God's people) were still undergoing their fulfillment. So when Christ made his first appearance, he did not even attempt to liberate the Jews from the yoke of Rome. It was not yet time to establish his kingdom on earth.

Jesus was not sent to the religious leaders, but to the ones whom they were neglecting, causing them to become spiritually "lost". Jesus often used "sheep" and "shepherds" in his illustrations so that the people understood what his role was as "the Fine Shepherd" and how he was going to release them from their restrictive spiritual pen and guide them into new and nourishing pasturage with freedom to choose Jehovah as their God....the God and Father willingly served by Jesus Christ. (Revelation 3:12)

Jesus did not do what those former negligent shepherds had done, he went especially to the "lost" ones (the tax collectors and sinners) and showed them how to become spiritually liberated from an irreformable religious system that had lost the plot....."straining at gnats, but gulping down camels". They were nit-picking the minor and inconsequential things of the Law but neglecting the weightier and more important things like faithfulness, mercy and justice. (Matthew 23:23)

In hindsight the major achievement of Christianity was to bring what G-d had established through the Jews, to the gentiles. That's why we both believe in the G-d of Israel.

The god of all false religion is the same god. He is the one who hijacked the human race in Eden to gain worship for himself. He is the god known by many titles....but the true God has only one name, revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15, which if you look that up in the Jewish Tanach is YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah)

The god of Islam is Allah which simply means "Lord".
For Jews it is Adonai which also means "Lord".
For Christians, there is a trinitarian God who was borrowed from paganism, but his name is Lord too....the Lord Jesus. These are the same god...but none of them are Jehovah.

"Lord" is a title, like "god" is a title....but Jehovah revealed that he has only one name and it is a name that he gave to himself and revealed to humankind. His people were always identified with his name. When Israel failed to keep their covenant, God chose a new nation to be his people...."the Israel of God".....spiritual Israel. (Acts 15:14; Galatians 6:16) These were now made up of both Jews and Gentiles who willingly became disciples of God's son. Being born into the Nation of Israel was no longer a valid reason to claim YHWH as your God.....his name was lost by them, butvrestored by Jesus to his disciples. (John 17:26)

In looking for the counterfeits, you need accurate knowledge of the original. If you are comparing counterfeits to counterfeits, you will never see the difference.
If you know the original well, the counterfeits become very obvious, very quickly.

There isn't a 'god of false religion' because there is only One G-d.

The attributes of the G-d in the Quran are exactly the same as the G-d in the Bible.

God in Islam - Wikipedia

I recommend you do some reading. To me you sound as if you desperately need to learn something Islam and avoid being Islamophobic. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but a major problem in the world today is hate and prejudice.

Islamophobia - Wikipedia

 

[Faithofchristian]

Agreed.



It is true that we all have an attachment to our worldviews, you and I included. I see that most of us here have some degree of truth and understanding of life. I'm just an ordinary guy making his way in the world and have nothing unique or special to offer. As soon as we have a religion that tells us we are special and has this unique monopoly on truth no one else has then that is dangerous, perhaps even Satanic. We increasingly exist in a bubble of people who think as we do. Our unique absolutely true world view isn't challenged and our perverse belief that everyone is wrong apart from us is reinforced. So we all have truth and all are deluded. What greater to delusion than to believe everyone is deluded other than us.



I agree that Christ did foretell that Christianity would become corrupt and the parable of the tares illustrates that nicely. Jesus taught us to heed the signs and Christianity being hopelessly divided is definitely a sign. What the world needs now is unity. The divided body of Christ can not unite a divided and distracted world. However we can be united with anyone through working alongside other in acts of service for the betterment of humanity. That is how I understand Matthew 25:31-46. Heal the sick, feed the hungry, support the needy. If we can't lift a finger to help others what are we about?



One sincere soul is better than a thousand insincere ones. One previous peeble on the beach is worth all the grains of sands.



Islam promotes all the noble and praiseworthy characteristics in man that Christianity teaches. What is it about human virtue and the path of G-d that Christianity has over Islam?



How does Islam promote bloodshed? What did Muhammad teach that promoted the shedding of innocent people? Tell me from the Quran? Don't tell me based on what you have heard from others. See with your own eyes, not the eyes of others. Know of your own knowledge, not the knowledge of those that don't take the time to investigate matters for themselves.

Why not do some reading. Tell me the problems with Sharia law. Do keep in mind it was revealed in the 7th century and so like some laws of the Torah would no longer be applicable.

Sharia - Wikipedia



I've already demonstrated that history can repeat itself in religion and that signs that accompanied Moses and Christ may also accompany other Messiah's or Christs.

What Did Jesus Mean?



Of course you believe Satan is trying to delude me. I'm trying to educate you about Islam and think beyond the propoganda lol. Muslims too are awaiting the Return of Christ.

Second Coming - Wikipedia







In hindsight the major achievement of Christianity was to bring what G-d had established through the Jews, to the gentiles. That's why we both believe in the G-d of Israel.









There isn't a 'god of false religion' because there is only One G-d.

The attributes of the G-d in the Quran are exactly the same as the G-d in the Bible.

God in Islam - Wikipedia

I recommend you do some reading. To me you sound as if you desperately need to learn something Islam and avoid being Islamophobic. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but a major problem in the world today is hate and prejudice.

Islamophobia - Wikipedia

You said---> ( Muslims too are awaiting the Return of Christ.)

Well seeing Muslims have no idea who's coming first. Therefore Muslims will be deceived. Just like alot of people and alot of Christians will be deceived. Of not knowing who's coming first.

In the book of Revelation Christ Jesus has foretold who's coming first and how.

But as it is, people will try and come up with their reasoning about the book of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus has already foretold what everything in the book of Revelation stands to represent and who they represents.
But people will over look what Christ Jesus has given in the book of Revelation, to try and give their own private interpretation of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus has already given the interpretation of all things in Revelation himself. To be found within Revelation it's self.

People want to know what the number 666 stands for, Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation what the number 666 stands for and who the number 666 represents.

People want to know who the beast is,
in Revelation 13, Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation who the beast is.

People want to know who the dragon and who the stars are that were cast to the earth.
Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation who they all are, in his book of Revelation.

But yet people will run to other sources looking for their answers for the book of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus himself has already foretold in his book of Revelation what everything represents and who they represents all in his book of Revelation.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You said---> ( Muslims too are awaiting the Return of Christ.)

Well seeing Muslims have no idea who's coming first. Therefore Muslims will be deceived. Just like alot of people and alot of Christians will be deceived. Of not knowing who's coming first.

In the book of Revelation Christ Jesus has foretold who's coming first and how.

But as it is, people will try and come up with their reasoning about the book of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus has already foretold what everything in the book of Revelation stands to represent and who they represents.
But people will over look what Christ Jesus has given in the book of Revelation, to try and give their own private interpretation of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus has already given the interpretation of all things in Revelation himself. To be found within Revelation it's self.

People want to know what the number 666 stands for, Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation what the number 666 stands for and who the number 666 represents.

People want to know who the beast is,
in Revelation 13, Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation who the beast is.

People want to know who the dragon and who the stars are that were cast to the earth.
Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation who they all are, in his book of Revelation.

But yet people will run to other sources looking for their answers for the book of Revelation, Not realizing that Christ Jesus himself has already foretold in his book of Revelation what everything represents and who they represents all in his book of Revelation.

Mate, I've heard Christians spout utter nonsense when it comes to 666 from Ronald Reagan to bar codes on our foreheads to the apocalypse before the year 2,000 to Obama.

Its the United Nations or the European Union or some other public figure whose disliked and happens to have six letters in his first and last name.

What is the meaning of 666?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

However you look at it, Islam became corrupted early in its history. The Baha'is regard Ali as Muhammad's successor and the Imams as rightly guided. Ali did become Caliph but he was poisoned by Ali-Walid I.

Al-Walid I - Wikipedia

It is not Shia or Sunni that was the dragon but the Umayyad Caliphate that existd from 661 - 750 AD.

Umayyad Caliphate - Wikipedia

The dragon is simply used to depict an Empire as other Empires were depicted in Daniel 7. If we consider Revelation 12:3-4:

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth.”

The seven heads and seven crowns mean seven countries and dominions over which the Umayyads had power: they were the Roman dominion around Damascus; and the Persian, Arabian and Egyptian dominions, together with the dominion of Africa—Tunis, Morocco and Algeria; the dominion of Andalusia; and the dominion of Transoxania. The ten horns mean the names of the Umayyad rulers—that is, without repetition, there were ten names of rulers —the first is Abú Súfyán and the last Marván—but several of them bear the same name. So there are two Muáviyá, three Yazíd, two Valíd, and two Marván; but if the names were counted without repetition there would be ten. The Umayyads, of whom the first was Abú Súfyán, Amír of Mecca and chief of the dynasty of the Umayyads, and the last was Marván, destroyed the third part of the holy and saintly people of the lineage of Muḥammad who were like the stars of heaven.

The Catholic Church has certainly had times of being extremely corrupted too and at times could be a close contender for the title dragon along with the Umayyads. I don't see the European Union as having any relationship to the beast at all, but am aware this used to be a popular idea amongst some fundamentalist Christians. You are welcome to make a case as to how this could be true.

Although the Hadiths are not relaible like the Quran which is authenticated, they are vitally important sources of information as well as being the basis for both the second coming of Christ and the Mahdi prophecy. The second coming of Christ is supported by the gospels and New Testament.

I disagree with your view about the narrations which are not mentioned in the Quran. These narrators invented their Mahdi, so did the Shia. And they borrowed the second coming of Christ from the Gospel and made their own version of. Both Sunni and Shia sects deviated from the Quran and are mixing it with their fabricated narrations and system of religion.

I also disagree with your view about the Beast and the Dragon. The Beast is clearly the EU. And the Dragon is clearly the UK. The EU fits exactly the descriptions of the Beast. Especially how America left the UK, and how America is the Eagle etc. and how the UK is the Dragon, having authority over the Beast etc.

Come on, the Shia believe their Mahdi is still alive and hidden somewhere on earth for over 1400 +/- years already.. You can't even trust the Shia since their scholars believe that they can lie for personal interests..

 

[Faithofchristian]

Mate, I've heard Christians spout utter nonsense when it comes to 666 from Ronald Reagan to bar codes on our foreheads to the apocalypse before the year 2,000 to Obama.

Its the United Nations or the European Union or some other public figure whose disliked and happens to have six letters in his first and last name.

What is the meaning of 666?

Mate, Christ Jesus foretold in his book of Revelation, what the number 666 represents and who.
So it's not what someone else is saying.
But what Christ Jesus himself saying what the number 666 stands to represent and who in his book of Revelation.

Here I will say it real slow
(Christ ) ---- (Jesus) ---- ( Foretold ) --- In --- Revelation.----
What ---- The ---- Number --- 666 --- Stands To -----Represents ----- And ---- Who.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you don't know Arabic and Greek, then i wouldn't dare to begin with this topic if i was you. You do not want to base your claims on sectarian translations.

In Arabic there are three words for son, there is ghulaam, welled, and ibn. The Quran warns against calling Jesus Christ te literal son of God. There is nothing wrong in calling Christ a spiritual son of God. The Quran even used the term 'children of God'. And the point is, not only Christ can be called a son of God, so can the righteouss be as well, but i agree that he is an unique one, since he is Christ, and we humans received many prophets, but just one Christ.

But you are probably smart enough to study Greek and read the original Gospel. And if you want to claim what the Quran really says, then it would be wise to study Arabic.
A golden advice is, never trust a translation. One, you are just reading what the translator understood, and two, they have errors in them.

Anyways, the Quran in 5:47 told us to Judge with the Gospel. And the Quran in 5:68 told us to uphold the Tora and the Gospel, else we are on nothing.
So stay away from these discussions if you do not know Greek and Arabic.

When did I say I haven't studied Greek?

Tell me what I misunderstand about the Qu'ran/Hadith:

1) The Bible is "corrupt". If I gave you a Bible, would you be able to tell me which parts are corrupt and which are without corruption, so I can follow at least some of it, since it is the word of Allah? Can you do this, knowing Greek and Arabic, perhaps?

2) If the Noble Qu'ran is perfect, on stone tablets in Heaven, kept by Allah, why was Allah unable to keep the Bible without corruption? Why didn't Allah keep the Bible safe?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I doubt if your read any of the list I provided.

All-compassionate
The Beneficent
The Most merciful
The Giver of Peace
The Absolute Forgiver
The Ever-Watchful
The Gentle/Subtly Kind
The Forebearing
The affectionate
Loving One
The Giver of Life
The Enricher
The Guide to the right path.

These are all qualities of G-d based on the Quran.




The Gospel affirms Jesus was the spiritual Son of G-d, the Quran affirms He was not the physical son of God.

"Loving one" is not in the Arabic Qu'ran.

The gospel affirms that Christ saved the world, the Qu'ran says, "God forbid God have a son" and that the greatest sin is the ascribing of a helper or partner to the one monotheist Allah. Jesus IS GOD.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Mate, Christ Jesus foretold in his book of Revelation, what the number 666 represents and who.
So it's not what someone else is saying.
But what Christ Jesus himself saying what the number 666 stands to represent and who in his book of Revelation.

Here I will say it real slow
(Christ ) ---- (Jesus) ---- ( Foretold ) --- In --- Revelation.----
What ---- The ---- Number --- 666 --- Stands To -----Represents ----- And ---- Who.

Christ didn’t write the Apocalypse, it’s been attributed to the Apostle John. I’ve heard so many theories from Christians about what or who they believe 666 to be. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 fits best.