Does the New Testament Anywhere Clearly Talk About Homosexuals?

[angellous_evangellous]

This^^^^

My point is that the Christians who loudly push against homosexuality are not applying the text properly, using a unifying message to cause division.

And they probably don't think that the male/female connection is as important as it was for Paul -- that quite literally, homosexual contact makes the sky fall.

It's easier I think to point out that the cosmology is outdated and needs an update along with the symbol -- because they are enforcing behavior that reflects on a cosmology that they don't even believe. Or shouldn't believe if they did.

 

[sojourner]

My point is that the Christians who loudly push against homosexuality are not applying the text properly, using a unifying message to cause division.

And they probably don't think that the male/female connection is as important as it was for Paul -- that quite literally, homosexual contact makes the sky fall.

It's easier I think to point out that the cosmology is outdated and needs an update along with the symbol -- because they are enforcing behavior that reflects on a cosmology that they don't even believe. Or shouldn't believe if they did.

Makes complete sense. But it'll never happen, because, for most of them, the whole "purity code" thing eclipses any consideration of cosmology.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Makes complete sense. But it'll never happen, because, for most of them, the whole "purity code" thing eclipses any consideration of cosmology.

Oh, yeah I agree. It's going to be a slow change, but eventually it will happen - maybe in 200 years when the church has other concerns.

One thing that sucks is conservative seminaries are behemoths that produce thousands of MDivs and PhDs every year and the "liberal" schools are producing far, far less.

But eventually reality will catch up with the church.

 

[sojourner]

Oh, yeah I agree. It's going to be a slow change, but eventually it will happen - maybe in 200 years when the church has other concerns.

One thing that sucks is conservative seminaries are behemoths that produce thousands of MDivs and PhDs every year and the "liberal" schools are producing far, far less.

But eventually reality will catch up with the church.

"When the church has other concerns" = "when they come up with a new scapegoat." Natives -> blacks -> women -> homosexuals -> ???

 

[fantome profane]

"When the church has other concerns" = "when they come up with a new scapegoat." Natives -> blacks -> women -> homosexuals -> ???

In 200 years they will be opposing Android marriages.

(and I am not talking about phones)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

In 200 years they will be opposing Android marriages.

(and I am not talking about phones)

Actually, I think that they will struggle with things that are currently relevant, not what was relevant 200 years ago.

That is, I think that the church will shove homosexuality aside as more and more couples marry and raise families. The church will have to or it won't survive.

I think eventually the church of the future will struggle with the issues of today: current medical ethics, climate change, contemporary philosophy, immigration, Israel, etc. Right now the church is busy sweeping crumbs under the rug to care about anything that really matters today.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

"When the church has other concerns" = "when they come up with a new scapegoat." Natives -> blacks -> women -> homosexuals -> ???

You forgot a few... (Pagans)-> (Jews) -> Natives-> (Freemasons)-> blacks-> women-> homosexuals. I'm going to take a wild guess and say Hispanics are probably next, but I'm not sure.

 

[goodhunter819]

Yes it dose, clearly on the first book of Corinthians it reinforces the law of Leviticus and Deuteronomy

 

[dgirl1986]

I think original translation talked about sexual crime and sexual impurity but it was later translated to mean homosexuality.

 

[Muffled]

The post says nothing about homosexuals. It mentions some things that the writer (in ignorance of the existence of a homosexual orientation) deems "unnatural acts." The scriptural call to honor and respect all (There is no more Jew or Greek, for all are one in Christ Jesus) is much louder and more prevalent than the 2 or three isolated passages that mention homosexual acts. Weighing one injunction against the other, it's more important to refrain from dehumanizing those whom we now understand to be people behaving normally, than it is to hold them to an outdated moral perspective of their orientation.

I don't believe I have seen anything like this so provide a scripture.

I believe in Jesus there is no sin so one can't love their sin and be in Jesus at the same time. I would certainly accept a homosexual who is repenting his sin and doing his best to overcome it.

I don't believe in dehumanizing people but those who understand perversion to be normal are not facing reality in my book.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, it's the same NT that tells women to shut up and slaves to obey their masters.

I see the NT as clear evidence that Christianity is fiction. Nobody believes what It actually says any more. Modern Christianity is all about sophisticated cherry picking. George Bush dropped bombs on "the least". Heather Ann tells Sunstone what to believe.
You'd think modern Christians had all lost their Bibles.

Tom

I believe your concepts of the NT are pure fiction.

 

[Muffled]

Is there a verse that actually says sexual immoral behavior is a sin?

No. I believe Paul assumes one knows that from the old testament and brings it into application by saying that a person committing such acts will not enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[columbus]

I believe your concepts of the NT are pure fiction.

I can back them up with verses if that would help.
Tom

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes it dose, clearly on the first book of Corinthians it reinforces the law of Leviticus and Deuteronomy

NO they don't!

Please go back and read this whole thread.

*

 

[starlite]

Actually, I think that they will struggle with things that are currently relevant, not what was relevant 200 years ago.

Jehovah God is the supreme embodiment of constancy and consistency.

Malachi 3:6
“For I am Jehovah; I do not change.

His standards are for our benefit.

Isaiah 48:18
O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

The Bible also identifies immoral practices that God explicitly condemns.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”

So...while man's standards change, God's do not. Seems to me that the best course is to stick to God's righteous standards and not go with the ever changing flow of the world.

 

[sojourner]

Jehovah God is the supreme embodiment of constancy and consistency.

Malachi 3:6
“For I am Jehovah; I do not change.

His standards are for our benefit.

Isaiah 48:18
O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

The Bible also identifies immoral practices that God explicitly condemns.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”

So...while man's standards change, God's do not. Seems to me that the best course is to stick to God's righteous standards and not go with the ever changing flow of the world.

You don't seem to get it that the standards imposed in the bible are "man's standards." And they need to change in order to conform to God's standard, which is love and acceptance.

 

[Nietzsche]

Jehovah God is the supreme embodiment of constancy and consistency.

Malachi 3:6
“For I am Jehovah; I do not change.

His standards are for our benefit.

Isaiah 48:18
O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

The Bible also identifies immoral practices that God explicitly condemns.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”

So...while man's standards change, God's do not. Seems to me that the best course is to stick to God's righteous standards and not go with the ever changing flow of the world.

Do you eat milk with meat? Do you eat shellfish? How about wear clothes of mixed fiber? Has any man in your life written a Torah-scroll? There's 609 more, too. And that's just scratching the surface.

 

[Ingledsva]

Jehovah God is the supreme embodiment of constancy and consistency.

Malachi 3:6
“For I am Jehovah; I do not change.

His standards are for our benefit.

Isaiah 48:18
O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

The Bible also identifies immoral practices that God explicitly condemns.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”

So...while man's standards change, God's do not. Seems to me that the best course is to stick to God's righteous standards and not go with the ever changing flow of the world.

I don't knowhow many times we have to repeat this - there is NO - men who lie with men - in that verse.


*

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Yes, it's the same NT that tells women to shut up ...

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." ~ 1 Timothy 2:12

... and slaves to obey their masters.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord." ~ Colossians 3:22

And sometimes both:

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." ~ Ephesians 5:22

I see the NT as clear evidence that Christianity is fiction.

 

[Domenic]

The post says nothing about homosexuals. It mentions some things that the writer (in ignorance of the existence of a homosexual orientation) deems "unnatural acts." The scriptural call to honor and respect all (There is no more Jew or Greek, for all are one in Christ Jesus) is much louder and more prevalent than the 2 or three isolated passages that mention homosexual acts. Weighing one injunction against the other, it's more important to refrain from dehumanizing those whom we now understand to be people behaving normally, than it is to hold them to an outdated moral perspective of their orientation.

Are you suggesting God is out of date, and that the way some people think is correct, and God is not?