Does the New Testament Anywhere Clearly Talk About Homosexuals?

[dgirl1986]

both really.

romantic desire often leads to sexual desire...perhaps romantic desires are the catalyst to sexual desire because we are made to procreate and you need to have sex to do that.

For me personally, romance comes way before sexual. I could live without sex but I do not want to live without my gf by my side. Just because we are gay doesnt mean we wont be having kids or trying to adopt kids.

 

[sojourner]

INSPIRATION:The quality or state of being moved by or produced under the direction of a spirit from a superhuman source. When that source is Jehovah, the result is a pronouncement or writings that are truly the word of God. The apostle Paul stated at 2 Timothy 3:16: “All Scripture is inspired of God.” Therefore, what Paul spoke and wrote was not his opinion but the point of view of the Creator who knows the complete makeup of a human and his (her) behaviors.

Except that the "scripture" that 2 Tim. refers to is the OT, because some of the NT hadn't been written yet, and none of the NT was yet considered "scripture." At that time they were still merely stories and letters. Therefore, what Paul spoke and wrote was certainly his opinion from his perspective of cosmology, and not particularly the POV of the creator.

 

[sojourner]

One discerning factor is that it is happening on a worldwide scale...with more disastrous consequences.

It's always happened on a worldwide scale. It's simply that, until about 20 years ago, we were not as readily or speedily aware of what was going on in the whole world as we are today.

 

[Nada]

So then, what about Anna that lived at the Temple and preached about Jesus to everyone that came there?


Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


HUMMMmmm! She "departed NOT from the Jerusalem TEMPLE" AND "SHE PREACHED about Jesus to ALL whom looked for redemption in Jerusalem!

GEE WIZ Boys and Girls! Sounds like a FEMALE PREACHER and PROPHETESS preaching from "THE" TEMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*

Do you really think all the female prophets didn't preach like male prophets?

*

The Deacon in Rom 16:1 obviously preached.


Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is Diakonos (Pastor) of the church which is at Cenchrea:


*


The Apostle obviously preached, - that is their job.


Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.



*

You are confusing prophesying with preaching to the congregation.They are not the same thing.No women ever preached or spoke in a congregation to men.

An Unexpected Blessing

On this highly significant day, the infant Jesus was brought to Jerusalem’s temple by his mother, Mary, and his adoptive father, Joseph. Aged Simeon saw the babe and spoke prophetic words on that occasion. (Luke 2:25-35) Anna was at the temple as usual. “In that very hour,” reports Luke, “she came near.” (Luke 2:38) How thrilled Anna must have been as her aging eyes beheld the future Messiah!

Forty days earlier, God’s angel had startled shepherds near Bethlehem with the words: “Look! I am declaring to you good news of a great joy that all the people will have, because there was born to you today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, in David’s city.” A multitude of the heavenly army praised Jehovah and added: “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.” (Luke 2:8-14) Likewise, Anna was now moved to bear witness about the One who would be the Messiah!

Upon beholding the babe Jesus, Anna “began returning thanks to God and speaking about the child to all those waiting for Jerusalem’s deliverance.” (Luke 2:38) Like elderly Simeon, also privileged to see the infant Jesus at the temple, undoubtedly she had been longing, praying, and waiting for the promised Deliverer. The good news that Jesus was that One was just too good for her to keep to herself.

Though Anna might not have expected to be alive when Jesus was grown, what did she do? She joyfully witnessed to others about the liberation due to be effected through this coming Messiah.



WOL



Sacred service has to do with acts of worship. For example, the 84-year-old widow and prophetess Anna is described as “never missing from the temple, rendering sacred service [a Greek word related to la·trei´a] night and day with fastings and supplications.” (Luke 2:36,*37) Anna worshiped Jehovah with constancy. She is a fine example for all of us—young and old, men and women. Even as Anna prayed to Jehovah earnestly and worshiped him regularly at the temple, our sacred service includes prayer and meeting attendance.—Romans 12:12; Hebrews 10:24,*25.

WOL


“Never Missing From the Temple”

The Gospel writer Luke acquaints us with Anna. “Now,” says he, “there was Anna a prophetess, Phanuel’s daughter, of Asher’s tribe” in Israel. As a prophetess, she had the gift of God’s holy spirit, or active force, in a special sense. And Anna had a grand opportunity to prophesy on one notable occasion.

Luke relates: “This woman was well along in years, and had lived with a husband for seven years from her virginity, and she was a widow now eighty-four years old.” (Luke 2:36,*37) Likely, Anna became a widow when she was quite young. Widowed Christian women of any age know how heartrending it is to lose a beloved husband in death. Like many godly women of our day, however, Anna did not let this sad experience halt her service to God.

Luke tells us that Anna “was never missing from the temple” in Jerusalem. (Luke 2:37) She keenly appreciated the blessedness that results from service at the house of God. Her actions revealed that she, like Israel’s psalmist-king David, had only one thing to ask of Jehovah. And what was that? David sang: “One thing I have asked from Jehovah—it is what I shall look for, that I may dwell in the house of Jehovah all the days of my life, to behold the pleasantness of Jehovah and to look with appreciation upon his temple.” (Psalm 27:4) In this respect, too, Anna is like Christian women today who find delight in regular presence at Jehovah’s place of worship.

Anna rendered sacred service to Jehovah night and day. She did this “with fastings and supplications,” indicating mourning and earnest longing. (Luke 2:37) The centuries-long Jewish subjection to Gentile powers, coupled with the deteriorating religious conditions that reached even to the temple and its priesthood, could well have accounted for Anna’s fastings and supplications to Jehovah God. But she also had reason to be happy, especially because of something extraordinary that happened on a truly eventful day in the year 2*B.C.E.

WOL

 

[Ingledsva]

Except that the "scripture" that 2 Tim. refers to is the OT, because some of the NT hadn't been written yet, and none of the NT was yet considered "scripture." At that time they were still merely stories and letters. Therefore, what Paul spoke and wrote was certainly his opinion from his perspective of cosmology, and not particularly the POV of the creator.

And Galatians 1:11-12 actually says this.

11. For I would have you know brethren, that the gospel that was preached by me is not according to man.

12. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ.


So - this man whom didn't come along until after Jesus was dead - by his own admission, didn't listen to the teachings of the Apostles; instead he claims his vision on the road taught him everything. Hummm!

*

 

[sojourner]

I disagree a little. Paul did understand - I think - that some men wanted sexual relationships with men only and some women wanted sexual relationships with women only. That's as close to a cultural equivalent as we can get, aside from him writing a treatise on the nature of sexual orientation in English citing modern studies on human sexuality.

The context of Paul's use of sexual terms in Romans 1 (and elsewhere) is within the framework of an ongoing discussion about preference. The ancients knew - and wrote about - people who were exclusively attracted to same-sex partners. We can call that 'homosexuality' with the understanding that modern explorations of sexuality did not exist.

I'm not convinced, though, that it was understood as an orientation (at least, not as we understand orientation today). I think Paul's idea of homosexuality was as a disease -- an aberration -- not a natural orientation.

The reason I say that is because no one is ever referred to as a "homosexual" in the bible. The idea is always expressed through the action involved: "Men-who-sleep-with-men." IOW, Paul doesn't see it as a bona fide identity -- only as a set of acts. Therefore, for Paul there is no such thing as a heterosexual man or a homosexual man. There are only men who do natural sex and men who do unnatural sex.

 

[Ingledsva]

So then, what about Anna that lived at the Temple and preached about Jesus to everyone that came there?


Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


HUMMMmmm! She "departed NOT from the Jerusalem TEMPLE" AND "SHE PREACHED about Jesus to ALL whom looked for redemption in Jerusalem!

GEE WIZ Boys and Girls! Sounds like a FEMALE PREACHER and PROPHETESS preaching from "THE" TEMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*

Do you really think all the female prophets didn't preach like male prophets?

*

The Deacon in Rom 16:1 obviously preached.


Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is Diakonos (Pastor) of the church which is at Cenchrea:


*


The Apostle obviously preached, - that is their job.


Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

You are confusing prophesying with preaching to the congregation.They are not the same thing.No women ever preached or spoke in a congregation to men.


ING - I'm not confusing anything. I mention both in connection to teaching/preaching. I suggest you reread my post.


An Unexpected Blessing

On this highly significant day, the infant Jesus was brought to Jerusalem’s temple by his mother, Mary, and his adoptive father, Joseph. Aged Simeon saw the babe and spoke prophetic words on that occasion. (Luke 2:25-35) Anna was at the temple as usual. “In that very hour,” reports Luke, “she came near.” (Luke 2:38) How thrilled Anna must have been as her aging eyes beheld the future Messiah!

Forty days earlier, God’s angel had startled shepherds near Bethlehem with the words: “Look! I am declaring to you good news of a great joy that all the people will have, because there was born to you today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, in David’s city.” A multitude of the heavenly army praised Jehovah and added: “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.” (Luke 2:8-14) Likewise, Anna was now moved to bear witness about the One who would be the Messiah!

Upon beholding the babe Jesus, Anna “began returning thanks to God and speaking about the child to all those waiting for Jerusalem’s deliverance.” (Luke 2:38) Like elderly Simeon, also privileged to see the infant Jesus at the temple, undoubtedly she had been longing, praying, and waiting for the promised Deliverer. The good news that Jesus was that One was just too good for her to keep to herself.

Though Anna might not have expected to be alive when Jesus was grown, what did she do? She joyfully witnessed to others about the liberation due to be effected through this coming Messiah.


ING What have those verses got to do with what I posted? Waste of space.



WOL



Sacred service has to do with acts of worship. For example, the 84-year-old widow and prophetess Anna is described as “never missing from the temple, rendering sacred service [a Greek word related to la·trei´a] night and day with fastings and supplications.” (Luke 2:36,*37) Anna worshiped Jehovah with constancy. She is a fine example for all of us—young and old, men and women. Even as Anna prayed to Jehovah earnestly and worshiped him regularly at the temple, our sacred service includes prayer and meeting attendance.—Romans 12:12; Hebrews 10:24,*25.


WOL


“Never Missing From the Temple”

The Gospel writer Luke acquaints us with Anna. “Now,” says he, “there was Anna a prophetess, Phanuel’s daughter, of Asher’s tribe” in Israel. As a prophetess, she had the gift of God’s holy spirit, or active force, in a special sense. And Anna had a grand opportunity to prophesy on one notable occasion.

Luke relates: “This woman was well along in years, and had lived with a husband for seven years from her virginity, and she was a widow now eighty-four years old.” (Luke 2:36,*37) Likely, Anna became a widow when she was quite young. Widowed Christian women of any age know how heartrending it is to lose a beloved husband in death. Like many godly women of our day, however, Anna did not let this sad experience halt her service to God.

Luke tells us that Anna “was never missing from the temple” in Jerusalem. (Luke 2:37) She keenly appreciated the blessedness that results from service at the house of God. Her actions revealed that she, like Israel’s psalmist-king David, had only one thing to ask of Jehovah. And what was that? David sang: “One thing I have asked from Jehovah—it is what I shall look for, that I may dwell in the house of Jehovah all the days of my life, to behold the pleasantness of Jehovah and to look with appreciation upon his temple.” (Psalm 27:4) In this respect, too, Anna is like Christian women today who find delight in regular presence at Jehovah’s place of worship.

Anna rendered sacred service to Jehovah night and day. She did this “with fastings and supplications,” indicating mourning and earnest longing. (Luke 2:37) The centuries-long Jewish subjection to Gentile powers, coupled with the deteriorating religious conditions that reached even to the temple and its priesthood, could well have accounted for Anna’s fastings and supplications to Jehovah God. But she also had reason to be happy, especially because of something extraordinary that happened on a truly eventful day in the year 2*B.C.E.

WOL

ING - It says she never left the Temple. And you rather conveniently leave out the rest which I posted concerning her!

Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

It tells us she preached to all that came


And I note that you conspicuously leave out the obvious PREACHERS - The Deaconess/PREACHER, and the APOSTLE.


The Prophet and Prophetess didn't just give prophecy. They taught about coming consequences, etc.


*

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

Essentialism is an ancient concept unsupported by modern science -- especially the biological sciences. One might as well be mumbling stuff about the philosopher's stone and squaring the circle.

Firstly, this would be irrelevant to what is actually meant by those declaring something unnatural. So, you are arguing besides the point.

Secondly, essentialism and realism are philosophical positions, which are not affected by natural science. How we categorise reality at a fundamental level is not a scientific problem, but a philosophical one. That is, although we might make use of science to tell us what the properties or qualities of a thing are, the question of the existence of essences or natures is an entirely philosophical question. As is so often the case today, you are conflating philosophical with scientific questions, with the predictable, ensuing confusion.

Thirdly, nominalism has huge problems. As Edward Feser has put it, it tends to collapse into realism or become incoherent. G.K Chesterton, with his usual keen insight, illustrates a core problem with nominalism:

Then there is the opposite attack on thought: that urged by Mr. H.G.Wells when he insists that every separate thing is "unique," and there are no categories at all. This also is merely destructive. Thinking means connecting things, and stops if they cannot be connected. It need hardly be said that this scepticism forbidding thought necessarily forbids speech; a man cannot open his mouth without contradicting it. Thus when Mr. Wells says (as he did somewhere), "All chairs are quite different," he utters not merely a misstatement, but a contradiction in terms. If all chairs were quite different, you could not call them "all chairs."

 

[Nada]

ING - It says she never left the Temple. And you rather conveniently leave out the rest which I posted concerning her!

Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

It tells us she preached to all that came


And I note that you conspicuously leave out the obvious PREACHERS - The Deaconess/PREACHER, and the APOSTLE.


The Prophet and Prophetess didn't just give prophecy. They taught about coming consequences, etc.


*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Well, preaching and prophesying are two totally different things.You are stating that this women was preaching in the temple.She was not.Women were not allowed to preach in Jewish temples.This women was a prophetess.A Prophetess does not preach.A prophetess relays messages from God.Only men preach in Jewish synagogues or temples.Also not to Christian congregations.By the way I did not conveniently leave anything out like you said.I stated what I needed to state.I did not deliberately do anything.

#2 It says she served God with fastings and prayers.This is not preaching.


#3 You said," And I note that you conspicuously leave out the obvious PREACHERS - The Deaconess/PREACHER, and the APOSTLE."

These females that preached, whom you speak of, never preached to men in a congregation.It was not allowed.These women went with Paul and others preaching out in public.Never in a congregation.They helped with the preaching work.Like I explained before and as the holy scriptures clearly states,women were not preachers in the congregations.They did their preaching work in public.

#4 You said,"The Prophet and Prophetess didn't just give prophecy. They taught about coming consequences, etc." Prophesying is speaking about coming consequences.Its not teaching.Relaying a message is not teaching work.It is taking a message from God and giving it to others.

Prophecy defined
Prophecy is a process in which one or more messages that have been communicated to a prophet are then communicated to others.

#5 Your version of Luke 2:38 is incorrect.It never says preaching.


Here are 21 of the same verse that are all in agreement and they never say preaching.They say speaking.Speaking about something is not preaching.



New International Version
Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

New Living Translation
She came along just as Simeon was talking with Mary and Joseph, and she began praising God. She talked about the child to everyone who had been waiting expectantly for God to rescue Jerusalem.

English Standard Version
And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

New American Standard Bible
At that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

King James Bible
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
At that very moment, she came up and began to thank God and to speak about Him to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

International Standard Version
Just then she came forward and began to thank God and to speak about Jesus to everyone who was waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

NET Bible
At that moment, she came up to them and began to give thanks to God and to speak about the child to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
She was also standing in it at that hour and she gave thanks to THE LORD JEHOVAH and was speaking about him with everyone who was waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
At that moment she came up to Mary and Joseph and began to thank God. She spoke about Jesus to all who were waiting for Jerusalem to be set free.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord and spoke of him to all those that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

King James 2000 Bible
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

American King James Version
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

American Standard Version
And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks unto God, and spake of him to all them that were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now she, at the same hour, coming in, confessed to the Lord; and spoke of him to all that looked for the redemption of Israel.

Darby Bible Translation
and she coming up the same hour gave praise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem.

English Revised Version
And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks unto God, and spake of him to all them that were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Webster's Bible Translation
And she coming in that instant, gave thanks likewise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Weymouth New Testament
And coming up just at that moment, she gave thanks to God, and spoke about the child to all who were expecting the deliverance of Jerusalem.

World English Bible
Coming up at that very hour, she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of him to all those who were looking for redemption in Jerusalem.

Young's Literal Translation
and she, at that hour, having come in, was confessing, likewise, to the Lord, and was speaking concerning him, to all those looking for redemption in Jerusalem.




#6 Speaking:the action of conveying information or expressing one's thoughts and feelings in spoken language.

Preaching:deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church: he preached to a large congregation


Ps.The versus I showed you gave much insight.It was not a waste of space.Thats not nice.

 

[fantome profane]

I'm not convinced, though, that it was understood as an orientation (at least, not as we understand orientation today). I think Paul's idea of homosexuality was as a disease -- an aberration -- not a natural orientation.

Agreed, but there are still people today who think of homosexuality in just those terms.

I think you would have difficulty finding someone living today who disproves of homosexuality and also has what you would consider a correct modern understanding of orientation.

Paul probably understood homosexuality just as well as the typical bigot does today, which is to say not very well.

 

[sojourner]

Agreed, but there are still people today who think of homosexuality in just those terms.

I think you would have difficulty finding someone living today who disproves of homosexuality and also has what you would consider a correct modern understanding of orientation.

Paul probably understood homosexuality just as well as the typical bigot does today, which is to say not very well.

What I consider as a "correct, modern understanding" is that homosexuality has not existed in the mental health community as an "aberration" since the DSM-IV was published twenty years ago. We've had twenty years to correct our thinking on the matter. Just like when Galileo was censured for saying that the earth was round and revolved around the sun. It has taken the church centuries to catch up -- and there are still kooks out there who think the earth is flat. :roll eyes: But no matter what some kooks believe, it is a fact that homosexuality is not aberrant.

 

[Ingledsva]

ING - It says she never left the Temple. And you rather conveniently leave out the rest which I posted concerning her!

Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

It tells us she preached to all that came


And I note that you conspicuously leave out the obvious PREACHERS - The Deaconess/PREACHER, and the APOSTLE.


The Prophet and Prophetess didn't just give prophecy. They taught about coming consequences, etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Well, preaching and prophesying are two totally different things.You are stating that this women was preaching in the temple.She was not.Women were not allowed to preach in Jewish temples.This women was a prophetess.A Prophetess does not preach.A prophetess relays messages from God.Only men preach in Jewish synagogues or temples.Also not to Christian congregations.By the way I did not conveniently leave anything out like you said.I stated what I needed to state.I did not deliberately do anything.

#2 It says she served God with fastings and prayers.This is not preaching.


ING - Obviously it also says she taught/preached to ALL that came.

More about this below - as you put other verses in between.


#3 You said," And I note that you conspicuously leave out the obvious PREACHERS - The Deaconess/PREACHER, and the APOSTLE."

These females that preached, whom you speak of, never preached to men in a congregation.It was not allowed.These women went with Paul and others preaching out in public.Never in a congregation.They helped with the preaching work.Like I explained before and as the holy scriptures clearly states,women were not preachers in the congregations.They did their preaching work in public.



ING - ABSOLUTE BULL. Apostles did preach. In the other, It tells us SHE was the Deaconess/preacher of a church. No male is mentioned!

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is Diakonos (Pastor) of the church which is at Cenchrea:



#4 You said,"The Prophet and Prophetess didn't just give prophecy. They taught about coming consequences, etc." Prophesying is speaking about coming consequences.Its not teaching.Relaying a message is not teaching work.It is taking a message from God and giving it to others.

Prophecy defined
Prophecy is a process in which one or more messages that have been communicated to a prophet are then communicated to others.



ING - This is pure bull, as we have prophets in the Bible stories Preaching, and even leading armies. Obviously they had to speak more then just prophesies.


#5 Your version of Luke 2:38 is incorrect.It never says preaching.



ING - Bull - SEE BELOW.



Here are 21 of the same verse that are all in agreement and they never say preaching.They say speaking.Speaking about something is not preaching.



New International Version
Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

New Living Translation
She came along just as Simeon was talking with Mary and Joseph, and she began praising God. She talked about the child to everyone who had been waiting expectantly for God to rescue Jerusalem.

English Standard Version
And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

New American Standard Bible
At that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

King James Bible
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
At that very moment, she came up and began to thank God and to speak about Him to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

International Standard Version
Just then she came forward and began to thank God and to speak about Jesus to everyone who was waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

NET Bible
At that moment, she came up to them and began to give thanks to God and to speak about the child to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
She was also standing in it at that hour and she gave thanks to THE LORD JEHOVAH and was speaking about him with everyone who was waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
At that moment she came up to Mary and Joseph and began to thank God. She spoke about Jesus to all who were waiting for Jerusalem to be set free.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord and spoke of him to all those that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

King James 2000 Bible
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

American King James Version
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

American Standard Version
And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks unto God, and spake of him to all them that were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now she, at the same hour, coming in, confessed to the Lord; and spoke of him to all that looked for the redemption of Israel.

Darby Bible Translation
and she coming up the same hour gave praise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all those who waited for redemption in Jerusalem.

English Revised Version
And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks unto God, and spake of him to all them that were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.

Webster's Bible Translation
And she coming in that instant, gave thanks likewise to the Lord, and spoke of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Weymouth New Testament
And coming up just at that moment, she gave thanks to God, and spoke about the child to all who were expecting the deliverance of Jerusalem.

World English Bible
Coming up at that very hour, she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of him to all those who were looking for redemption in Jerusalem.

Young's Literal Translation
and she, at that hour, having come in, was confessing, likewise, to the Lord, and was speaking concerning him, to all those looking for redemption in Jerusalem.




#6 Speaking:the action of conveying information or expressing one's thoughts and feelings in spoken language.

Preaching:deliver a sermon or religious address to an assembled group of people, typically in church: he preached to a large congregation


Ps.The versus I showed you gave much insight.It was not a waste of space.Thats not nice.

More Junk, and I might add patriarchal translation.


Also it is a waste of space when it is not defending your position on the debate subject.


If she is "speaking" to ALL that came - about Jesus, - then she was preaching about Jesus, - and ALL means male and female.


Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached (ελαλε&#953 of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


Here is the same word in a verse with Jesus, where it is translated - PREACHING.


Mar 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached (ελαλε&#953the word unto them.

*

 

[Nada]

More Junk, and I might add patriarchal translation.


Also it is a waste of space when it is not defending your position on the debate subject.


If she is "speaking" to ALL that came - about Jesus, - then she was preaching about Jesus, - and ALL means male and female.


Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached (ελαλε&#953 of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


Here is the same word in a verse with Jesus, where it is translated - PREACHING.


Mar 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached (ελαλε&#953the word unto them.

*

#1 It never says she taught or preached.You are mistaken.

#2 I never said Apostles did not teach.I stated that women never preached in the congregation to men.

Phoebe was not a deacon as you have come to know it today.Its a huge misconception.She was a servant of the congregation."That word comes from a Greek word diakonos (διάκονο&#962, whence deacon, which means a servant or helper and occurs frequently in the Christian New Testament of the Bible."

Deaconess - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So as we can clearly see deacon does not mean some kind of Priest or Pastor.It simply means servant or helper/That is what Phoebe was.A servant of the congregation.

Church also does not mean what you have come to know it as today.It simply means congregation.Here is a perfect example of this.

Romans 16:5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

This passage is speaking of a congregation of Christians that meet up at a house.

Heres another example

Philemon 1:2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier--and to the church that meets in your home:

So as you can clearly see church means congregation of people.Not a literal building where people gather for service.In Greek it is called Ecclesia or Ekklesia.


It is not bull or junk as you have claimed.It is just a misconception based on a lack of accurate knowledge.That is why it is very important to know the true meanings of words.Many words have been poorly mistranslated,changed and even removed.One must become familiar with the original languages the holy scriptures were written in.The OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic.The NT was written in all Koine Greek.If one wants to know the true meanings of the words in the holy scriptures then they must go to these languages to understand what is truly being said.

As for Anna,she never taught or preached in a congregation to men.She merely spoke about him to people.It never says she preached in the congregation.It says she fasted and prayed.That does not mean preaching.She spoke.That does not mean she preached in a congregation.Just because she never left the temple does not mean she was a priest or pastor.It is just telling us she was always there fasting and praying.

Anna was a prophetess.


Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some as apostles,+ some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers,

 

[Stovepipe_Hat]

Good post

What is now of interest is how Christians justify their acceptance of homosexuality.

Any Christian out there up to explaining?

It's because many churches are moving away from the bible as law for church affairs, where equality issues are concerned. Not all the churches accept openly gay people, the Southern Baptist Convention and other evangelicals frown on it. Oddly, the evangelicals are growing while the old-line liberal branches like the Methodists and Presbyterians are declining.

None of this accuses gays of anything wrong. Churches are private orgs which can choose who they admit. There are lots of gay-friendly churches and some that are not. That's why church & state are separate in the USA.

 

[Ingledsva]

More Junk, and I might add patriarchal translation.


Also it is a waste of space when it is not defending your position on the debate subject.


If she is "speaking" to ALL that came - about Jesus, - then she was preaching about Jesus, - and ALL means male and female.


Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and preached (ελαλε&#953 of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


Here is the same word in a verse with Jesus, where it is translated - PREACHING.


Mar 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached (ελαλε&#953the word unto them.

#1 It never says she taught or preached.You are mistaken.


ING - Again BULL! The SAME word used with Jesus, is PREACHED!


#2 I never said Apostles did not teach.I stated that women never preached in the congregation to men.


ING - Apostles preached, she was an apostle, and you have no proof whatsoever that these female apostles didn't preach, or WHERE they preached, as obviously we know that apostles preached in churches!



Phoebe was not a deacon as you have come to know it today.Its a huge misconception.She was a servant of the congregation."That word comes from a Greek word diakonos (διάκονο&#962, whence deacon, which means a servant or helper and occurs frequently in the Christian New Testament of the Bible."

Deaconess - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So as we can clearly see deacon does not mean some kind of Priest or Pastor.It simply means servant or helper/That is what Phoebe was.A servant of the congregation.


ING - Again patriarchal BULL! We are told SHE is the DEACONESS of the CHURCH. NO male is mentioned. SHE is the preacher. You think because there is a female ending on the word it becomes servant/helper?

23 times in the NT it is Minister/preacher/deacon/ministers, etc.

3 times it is actual "owned servants."

the last 3 are Mat, Mar, and John telling us to be servants.

The Phoebe verse where we are told she is DEACONESS of a church - OBVIOUSLY means she was the PREACHER.



Church also does not mean what you have come to know it as today.It simply means congregation.Here is a perfect example of this.

Romans 16:5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

This passage is speaking of a congregation of Christians that meet up at a house.

Heres another example

Philemon 1:2 also to Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier--and to the church that meets in your home:

So as you can clearly see church means congregation of people.Not a literal building where people gather for service.In Greek it is called Ecclesia or Ekklesia.


ING - And again bull, and a red-herring. You know perfectly well at this time, and in these areas, almost all churches were in homes.

Ekklēsia - 113 times - church, churches - in the NT.

3 times - assembly.


It is not bull or junk as you have claimed.It is just a misconception based on a lack of accurate knowledge.That is why it is very important to know the true meanings of words.Many words have been poorly mistranslated,changed and even removed.One must become familiar with the original languages the holy scriptures were written in.The OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic.The NT was written in all Koine Greek.If one wants to know the true meanings of the words in the holy scriptures then they must go to these languages to understand what is truly being said.

As for Anna,she never taught or preached in a congregation to men.She merely spoke about him to people.It never says she preached in the congregation.It says she fasted and prayed.That does not mean preaching.She spoke.That does not mean she preached in a congregation.Just because she never left the temple does not mean she was a priest or pastor.It is just telling us she was always there fasting and praying.

Anna was a prophetess.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some as apostles,+ some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers,

ING - BULL - she also preached, it says so, see above. It uses the same word as when Jesus PREACHED.



*

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

What I consider as a "correct, modern understanding" is that homosexuality has not existed in the mental health community as an "aberration" since the DSM-IV was published twenty years ago. We've had twenty years to correct our thinking on the matter. Just like when Galileo was censured for saying that the earth was round and revolved around the sun. It has taken the church centuries to catch up -- and there are still kooks out there who think the earth is flat. :roll eyes: But no matter what some kooks believe, it is a fact that homosexuality is not aberrant.

Firstly, psychology is not an exact science (if any truly are) and it is questionable whether one can come to the conclusions you are from a solely scientific psychology, anyway. I'd be interested to see any framework that could pronounce homosexuality not aberrant that didn't rely on many controversial philosophical, moral, and even scientific assumptions.

Secondly, I'm not sure why homosexuality has to be classified as psychological disease - in the modern sense - to be in some sense aberrant. My understanding is that to be a mental disease, in today's terminology, it would have to give causing immediate distress to those who suffer from it. Why this is the mark of what is aberrant is hard to see.

 

[gzusfrk]

I could write a million pages on what a car is, and someone will say, it didnt say a bricks not a car.

 

[dgirl1986]

Firstly, psychology is not an exact science (if any truly are) and it is questionable whether one can come to the conclusions you are from a solely scientific psychology, anyway. I'd be interested to see any framework that could pronounce homosexuality not aberrant that didn't rely on many controversial philosophical, moral, and even scientific assumptions.

Secondly, I'm not sure why homosexuality has to be classified as psychological disease - in the modern sense - to be in some sense aberrant. My understanding is that to be a mental disease, in today's terminology, it would have to give causing immediate distress to those who suffer from it. Why this is the mark of what is aberrant is hard to see.

Have you studied psychology?

Homosexuality was onced thought to be a mental illness rather than a disease I believe. Mental illness is defined as a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking. It was originally classed as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Seems really weird to have it classified as such. Was then moved to be classed as a sexual deviancy and was later removed altogether. Many studies have been and are being conducted on the topic of sexuality.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

Have you studied psychology?

I have some knowledge of psychology, but have not studied it professionally. My point was about how one situates modern psychology as a branch of human knowledge, and how it is conducted.

Homosexuality was onced thought to be a mental illness rather than a disease I believe. Mental illness is defined as a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking. It was originally classed as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Seems really weird to have it classified as such. Was then moved to be classed as a sexual deviancy and was later removed altogether. Many studies have been and are being conducted on the topic of sexuality.

Okay, this is not really pertinent, though. For a start, I believe it is distress which is a key part of the contemporary definition of a mental illness. As Wikipedia puts it:

A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life (disability), and which is not developmentally or socially normative.

I don't see, one, why this alone is the definition of all mental or psychic disturbance and, two, why homosexuality has to be a mental illness in the contemporary sense to be in some sense unnatural or immoral.

 

[dgirl1986]

I have some knowledge of psychology, but have not studied it professionally. My point was about how one situates modern psychology as a branch of human knowledge, and how it is conducted.

I think you may benefit from looking at it a bit more deeply. There are standards that have to be followed in order for it to be credible.

Okay, this is not really pertinent, though. For a start, I believe it is distress which is a key part of the contemporary definition of a mental illness. As Wikipedia puts it:

A mental disorder, also called a mental illness or psychiatric disorder, is a mental or behavioral pattern or anomaly that causes either suffering or an impaired ability to function in ordinary life (disability), and which is not developmentally or socially normative.

It kinda points to the same thing. Not all mental illnesses cause distress.

I don't see, one, why this alone is the definition of all mental or psychic disturbance and, two, why homosexuality has to be a mental illness in the contemporary sense to be in some sense unnatural or immoral.

You mean you do not understand why mental illnesses are defined as mental illnesses?

Because it was once called a mental illness, people will insist that it still is and mental illness still has a huge stigma attached to it sadly.

Hope that makes sense.