does the quran contain contradictions ?

[maro]

Man was created from:

A blood clot [96:1-2],​

water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54],​

"sounding" clay [15:26],​

dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11],​

nothing [19:67],​

earth [11:61],​

a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]​

[19:67]But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing? ​

does this verse refer to the (material) from which (man) was created ? No​

the verse is not tallking about any material , it's stating the fact that Allah brought us to existance , while we were nothing before​

that's why it can't contradict any other verse that talks about the "material" from which Allah created man​

when the quran talks about the creation of Man ; we have to differentiate between 2 things​

1) the creation of Adam (pbuh) ​

2) the creation of his offspring​

the creation of adam is the origin of the creation of all his offspring , and we all have something from Adam in our bodies, and the elements from which he was created , are the same elements that constitute our bodies​

However, we don't come to exitance , the same way as Adam ,​

that's why we have to differentiate between the 2 things​

Adam was creastd from water ,dust ,clay and earth : where is the contradiction here?​

(the clay= water + dust) , and all are contained in earth​

[21:30]Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?​

science proved that water constitutes a very high percentage of the living organisms' bodies , already​

[3:59]The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was​

As the verse states, the original creation of Adam was from dust (and likely jesus , who was born without a father ) ,​

and as i mentioned , when dust is combined with water , we have "clay" ,​

[26] We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape​

all these elements ( water ,dust , clay..) come from the Earth we are living on ,​

so yes, Adam was created from the Earth , and accordingly we all have something from "Earth" in our constitution " , still no contradiction , as i see​

[11:61]To the Thamud People (We sent) Salih, one of their own brethren. He said: "O my People! worship Allah: ye have no other god but Him. It is He Who hath produced you from the earth and settled you therein: then ask forgiveness of Him, and turn to Him (in repentance): for my Lord is (always) near, ready to answer." ​

Some other verses Refer to the "specific" mechanism, by which Adam's offspring come to existance from their "parents " ; and these are among the miracuolous verses that describes "human embryology " preciesly , with its different stages​

you mentioned only 2 verses that discribes 2 satges among them ,​

(a drop of thickened fluid , and the blood clot ).....there are other stages mentioned in the quran​

Allah says ;​

[22:5] O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth in pairs. ​

for full account on the embryological facts in the quran and how it copes with modern science , you can check this :​

http://www.islamicmedicine.org/embryology.htm​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

i am starting this thread for non_ muslims who are confused about anything in the quran ,and think it's contadictory

please come here, and dare to ask

Again ...

4:78

Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in towers, raised high. And if good befalls them, they say: This is from Allah; and if a misfortune befalls them, they say: This is from thee. Say: All is from Allah. But what is the matter with these people that they make no effort to understand anything?​

4:79

Whatever good befalls thee (O man), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls the, it is from thyself. We have sent the (O Prophet) to mankind as a Messenger. And Allah is sufficient as a witness.​

The Holy Quran

As suggested ...

 

[love]

115. To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing.
116. They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.
117. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.
118. Say those without knowledge: "Why speaketh not Allah unto us? or why cometh not unto us a Sign?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike. We have indeed made clear the Signs unto any people who hold firmly to Faith (in their hearts).
119. Verily We have sent thee in truth as a bearer of glad tidings and a warner: But of thee no question shall be asked of the Companions of the Blazing Fire.
120. Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
121. Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own.
122. O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
123. Then guard yourselves against a-Day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall compensation be accepted from her nor shall intercession profit her nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

This I copied and paste from an english translation of the Holy Quran. This is what I have been reading. I do not know if it is a proper translation but I have no knowledge of Arabic.
The questions I ask will be to better understand your view point not to find contradictions.
I will post my questions later unless someone who knows tells me I am not reading an authorized version of the Quran.

 

[maro]

Again ...

Jay , be patient ,i am answering the questions in order as you see , and i haven't finished replying to the post of Mystemia yet ,

Actually , i don't intend to ignore any question ,by the aid of Allah :yes:

 

[maro]

Did Noah's son survive:

Yes

Sura 21:76,​

Sura 37:77​

No

11:42-43​

did Noah 's son survived ? No. he didn't​

this the (no) verses :​

[42]So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Nuh called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the Unbelievers!" ​

[43] The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Nuh said: "This day nothing can save, from the Command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!" and the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood. ​

so , let's investigate what you call the (yes) verses :

[21:76](Remember) Nuh, when he cried (to Us) aforetime: We listened to his (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress.


sura 37 :

[75](In the days of old), Nuh cried to Us, and We are the Best to hear prayer.

[76] And We delivered him and his people from the Great Calamity,


The question is : if Noah 's son , didn't survive , why does the quran says that Noah and his family were delivered from the great stress , isn't the (son) one of the family ?


The answer :

sura 11:

[45]And Nuh called upon his Lord, and said; "O my Lord! Surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the Justest of Judges!"


[46] He said: "O Nuh! he is not of thy family, for his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"


_in Islam , it's well know that the kuffr(disbelief) obliterate all family ties,
and the disbeliever son ,is not even allowed to inherit the properties of his muslim parents after their death,

so when the quran says to Noah ( you and your family), only the believers are meant

Are Christians going to Heaven:

​

Sura 2:62,​

Sura 5:69​

No

Sura 5:72,​

Sura 3:85​

check this thread ,post # 17 ​

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55003&page=2​

​

 

[maro]

[4:78]

Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in towers, raised high. And if good befalls them, they say: This is from Allah; and if a misfortune befalls them, they say: This is from thee. Say: All is from Allah. But what is the matter with these people that they make no effort to understand anything?

[4:79] Whatever good befalls thee (O man), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls the, it is from thyself. We have sent the (O Prophet) to mankind as a Messenger. And Allah is sufficient as a witness.​

The Holy Quran

actually, there is no contradiction if we understood

All is from Allah (The good and the bad) :
Allah's statement that all things are from Him means, everything occurs by the decision and decree of Allah, and His decision shall come to pass for both the righteous and the wicked, the faithful and the disbelievers.

everything happen's by Allah 's destiny , and i shall talk about the concept of "destiny" in islam , and how it doesn't contradict (free will) of human beings

The good is from Allah ;

meaning, of Allah's bounty, favor, kindness and mercy.

the Bad is from ourselves :

(But whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself.), meaning because of you and due to your actions , sins and errors , and as a punishment for you. (but it's still god's destiny and occurs by his decree )

_if something "Bad" happens to me , i have to search the "Bad " within myself , becoz this is Allah's warning and alarm for me to wake up , and revise my deeds and intensions

Allah says :

[8:53] "Because Allah will never change the Grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."

and he says...

[13:11]"......... Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)............"


the prophet (pbuh) says :

Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit: I, along with a group of people, gave the pledge of allegiance to Allah's Apostle. He said, "I take your Pledge on the condition that you (1) will not join partners in worship with Allah, (2) will not steal, (3) will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, (4) will not kill your offspring, (5) will not slander, (6) and will not disobey me when I order you to do good. Whoever among you will abide by his pledge, his reward will be with Allah, and whoever commits any of those sins and receives the punishment in this world, that punishment will be an expiation for his sins and purification; but if Allah screens him, then it will be up to Allah to punish him if He will or excuse Him, if He will." (Book #93, Hadith #560)


_ this link gives a brief account on the concept of "destiny " as a major islamic tenet ;

http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Belief/Destiny/article03.shtml

Quote :
"Sheikh Muhammad al-Jurdani 4 defines belief in destiny as the conviction “that Allah Most High has ordained both good and evil before creating creation, and that all that has been and all that will be only exists through Allah's decree, preordainment, and will.”....................

As some Islamic theologians have explained it, “Allah has willed that you act based on choice.”8 We are held responsible for choosing an act but not for creating the act itself. In other words, Allah creates the act and by our choosing it, we “acquire” it and are thereby held responsible for it. Thus, human actions are created by Allah but performed by us.9......​

Whether we are removed from worldly causes and effects or are deeply submerged in them, we must always maintain the firm conviction that Allah’s Will, Power, and Preordainment control all affairs. In reality, Allah is the Doer of everything, such that causes in themselves do not carry independent efficacy. To believe that medicine in itself cures disease, for instance, is essentially to posit that a created thing is acting independent of its Creator. In other words, the thing would then be beyond the control of Allah, a belief that is little better than attributing a partner to Him. Yes, Allah ties things together according to a recurrent way, such that He satisfies hunger when a person eats, yet controlling it all is His singular Will and Power.10​

_To sum up:
every thing happens by the will and permission of Allah , and for some good reason , as he is all wise
so , if something (bad) happens to us , it's Allah's widom , to revise ourselves , and see what "BAD" within our selves ,caused the Bad thing to happen to us
_However , not all bad is consisdered a punishment from Allah , it may be a "test" for the believer , to raise his degree in paradise ,
The Muslim believes that everything happens for a reason , after all​

 

[maro]

All is from Allah​

the context of the verse: when the hypocrites sense a bad Omen because of the prophet​

prophet muhammad (Pbuh) :​

sura 4, verse 78​

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" if some good befalls them, they say, "This is from Allah"; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah." But what hath come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact? ​

prophet Mosa(Pbuh)​

sura7,verse 131​

But when good (times) came, they said, "This is due to us," when gripped by calamity, they ascribed it to evil omens connected with Musa and those with him! behold! in truth the omens of evil are theirs in Allah's sight, but most of them do not understand! ​

 

[maro]

This I copied and paste from an english translation of the Holy Quran. This is what I have been reading. I do not know if it is a proper translation but I have no knowledge of Arabic.
The questions I ask will be to better understand your view point not to find contradictions.
I will post my questions later unless someone who knows tells me I am not reading an authorized version of the Quran.

The translation is good ,love. and i am waiting for your Questions

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay , be patient ,i am answering the questions in order as you see , ... , i don't intend to ignore any question ,by the aid of Allah :yes:

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that you've taken on a significant task, and I look forward to your answer. I would, however, ask that you also address the following:

For centuries there has existed a veritable cottage industry dedicated to explaining - some might say rationalizing - perceived 'contradictions' in the Jewish Tanakh and Christian Bible. It is extremely difficult to find any such 'contradiction' for which there is no explanation, and debates invariably end up focused on whether or not these explanations are reasonable.

I suspect that the same might be said of the Quran.

I've helped raise four children, maro, and play an active role in many more grandchildren. I try very hard to communicate with them in ways that are clear and helpful. So I would like to understand:

• why would an Abrahamic Diety communicate in a way that at the very least promotes the perception of contradiction, necessitating an incessant effort by apologists to 'clarify' the message, and
• what is the standard by which the skeptical enquirer might distinguish between meaningful exegesis and self-serving eisegesis, i.e., between reasonable explanation and faith-driven rationalization?

Again, thanks for taking on the burden of these questions.

 

[Darkness]

Hail Holy Angels! *Darkness bows*

There are many blasphemous people out there which claim Charlie's Angels (2000) contains inconsistencies. Besides me being blindsided by the utter insanity of those remarks, I want to give you examples of why it does not have inconsistencies.

Quote:
When the Angels are fighting the "Creepy Thin Man," right before Drew Barrymore lifts up Lucy Liu to spin her around and kick the thin man, to get Lucy's attention, Drew hollers out "Lucy!" even though Lucy Liu's character's name is "Alex."

This is simple and not blasphemous. Lucy is either her middle name or a nickname. No contradiction.

Quote:
When the girls found Knox in the room, they had to break down the door because it was bolted from inside. Now wouldn't that be suspicious? He's in a room where the only way out is through a door that was bolted from the inside...

Simple, Knox was merely testing them to see how strong their faith was. No contradiction.

Quote:
When the girls all order their food at the drive through they get their food but never pay.

Charge Holy Angels for food, I think not.

Quote:
After the Angels come out of the sea, they start walking towards a cave, dumping their rucksacks behind them and strip to their waists. Very attractive, and a dramatic view, but in the next shot they're crouched on the beach, getting equipment out of the backpacks they just dropped. If they needed stuff from out of them, why did they dump them and keep walking?

Obviously for holy, dramatic effect.

Quote:
When Lucy Liu is climbing a rope up the walls of the bad guy's castle lair, you can clearly see that she is wearing shoes without heels. But later on when she's fighting various bad guys, she's wearing four-inch heels.

We were merely not allowed to see her change shoes. Must the film include ever last detail?

These probably aren't the best inconsistencies to rationally reason away, but you get my point.

 

[Sahar]

I want to say one thing, thank you dear Mayada for your wonderful effort in this thread. Jazaki Allahu kolla al-khayr my very dear sister.

 

[TashaN]

I made absolutely NO claims as to validity of the Koran or the Bible, nor did I express any viewpoint other than Muslims are just like Christians when it comes to declaring their 'Holy Text' contradiction free.

Do you disagree with the method used in answering the questions or you just think that there MUST be contradictions in the Quran and that the Muslims should admit?!

 

[McBell]

Do you disagree with the method used in answering the questions or you just think that there MUST be contradictions in the Quran and that the Muslims should admit?!

MOD POST

Please be advised that this is the DIR. Unless you are a Muslim,
or have a respectful question to ask, kindly do not post in this thread.
No debating in the DIR.
​

Truth,
How am I to answer this in the Muslim Sanctuary?

 

[TashaN]

Truth,
How am I to answer this in the Muslim Sanctuary?

This thread is not in the DIR anymore in case you didn't notice, so i'm still wondering. Can you answer my question please?

 

[McBell]

No, I did not notice that it was moved.
Thank you for letting me know.

It isn't that there 'must' be contradictions.
It is that there ARE contradictions.
Just like there are contradictions in the Bible.
Making the claim that there are no contradictions is simply ignoring the fact that there are.

As to Muslims 'having' to accept them..
I suppose that that is up to each individual Muslim.
I know several Muslims who not only admit that there are contradictions, but are even willing to point them out.
They then explain why said contradictions do not bother them enough to leave their faith.
The most common explanation being that most contradictions are merely human errors and/or oversights which do not affect the purpose of the Koran.

 

[maro]

For centuries there has existed a veritable cottage industry dedicated to explaining - some might say rationalizing - perceived 'contradictions' in the Jewish Tanakh and Christian Bible. It is extremely difficult to find any such 'contradiction' for which there is no explanation, and debates invariably end up focused on whether or not these explanations are reasonable.

I suspect that the same might be said of the Quran.​

good point,

i think you know where to find the (why did the bible contain contradictions ?) thread ,​

i would like you to read both threads properly , and decide for yourself , which sounds (reasonable explanation) and which sounds like(rationalizing of the irrational),​

And what you decide by urself , is Fair enough for you ,
you know we are all going to be judged according to what we think and belive , not according to what others belive,or try to convince us with

I've helped raise four children, maro, and play an active role in many more grandchildren. I try very hard to communicate with them in ways that are clear and helpful. So I would like to understand:

• why would an Abrahamic Diety communicate in a way that at the very least promotes the perception of contradiction, necessitating an incessant effort by apologists to 'clarify' the message, and

b. what is the standard by which the skeptical enquirer might distinguish between meaningful exegesis and self-serving eisegesis, i.e., between reasonable explanation and faith-driven rationalization?
​

Again, thanks for taking on the burden of these questions.

frubals , for the questions ,

i would like to say that the "Quran " is not difficult or complicated, and that it's recited 5 times daily by 1.4 Billion muslim in its original language,

but yet Jay ,this doesn't mean that every muslim is allowed to interpret whatever he likes ,the way he likes , without respecting the linguistic and scientific rules set by the scholars (i'll talk about them later, inshalla).

Can you keep a secret ,jay ?!!

The only two questions i respected among those which were asked ,the fist one (wether allah is merciful or not ) and yours ,

because i truely sensed that both questions originate from the lack of deep and proper understanding of the islamic belief system as a whole ,
like how we view (GOD) , how we undersand destiny .., and so on

but honestly all the other questions are fuss over nothing , and any muslim who reads the quran in Arabic (like me) or even any other language can easily answer them , because they are made to be contradictions ,in a very foolish way

As i mentioned before , although the quran is quite simple and close to the heart , we still put restrictions on its interpretation ,because reading a scripture is not like reading the newspaper ,and to avoid the corruption and intentional misinterpretation of the word of God ,
there are several " conditions " to fullfill , for somone to understand the quran properly and scientifically ,

Certainly not all muslims fulfill these conditions, but all muslims make use of the tafseer Books "explanation" made by the scholars, and listen to their knowing imams in the masjid " mosque" ,T.v,.......and so on.

among these conditions:

1)to study arabic
2)to read the whole book , and link the verses together (because the quran explains each other)
3)To have knowlege of Hadith
4)to read any verse in its context in the book
5)to have knowlege about the reasons of the revealation (Asbab al Nozol)
6)to think deeply about the verses and not to stop at the superficial meaning ,especially if it was a story
7)and finally,to have some scientific knowledge about the cosmological and embryological facts within the quran ,
not to mention that that the more time passes,and science advances , the more "meanings " we get out of these verses , and which were absent before,

so the quran is always proving itself to be a book whose miracles never end , like prophet muhammad (PBUH) described it,

Dr.Zaghloul el najjar is one of the best in this field , you can check his videos if you are intersted ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp-GHDp6RmE

in your second question you asked about the standard of differentiation ,
and i am going to tell you my own personal standard of differentiation in any topic ,

First ,My logic and deep thinking
second , and which is much more impotant to me, is aking God for guidance , because even the most intelligent people can go astray if they were deprived from the devine light and guidance

Allah says :

[29:69] And those who strive in Our (Cause), We will certainly guide them to Our Paths: for verily Allah is with those who do right

 

[TashaN]

No, I did not notice that it was moved.
Thank you for letting me know.

You are most welcome.

It isn't that there 'must' be contradictions.
It is that there ARE contradictions.
Just like there are contradictions in the Bible.

You are implying that either all the Muslims are fooling around by claiming that there are no contradiction or either you know our scripture more than us, which one is it?

If the answer provided in this thread wasn't satisfactory for you then that's fine, and all what you have to say that you didn't get it yet and you should point out why our answer can't be logical or accurate. You don't have to be judgemental, or people will judge you as well. When you claim that we are ignoring and covering up the contradictions in the Quran, its like saying that we are simply lying.

I hope that neither of us will jump into conclusions and i also hope that this discussion will be productive.

Now please if you don't mind, can you show me where are the contradictions in the Quran you are talking about?

If you posted them before and you got the answer for it then tell us why you weren't satisfied with the answer, so i can help you with that.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Can you keep a secret ,jay ?!!

The only two questions i respected among those which were asked ,the fist one (wether allah is merciful or not ) and yours ,

because i truely sensed that both questions originate from the lack of deep and proper understanding of the islamic belief system as a whole ,
like how we view (GOD) , how we undersand destiny .., and so on

Thank you. I have no doubt but hat my questions reflect to some degree a lack of a deep and proper understanding of Islam. I look forward to reading your thoughts on the apparent contradiction raised by me earlier in this thread.

Perhaps my question (b) on how one distinguishes between exegesis and eisegesis warrants a thread of its own.

Shalom.

 

[Sahar]

It isn't that there 'must' be contradictions.
It is that there ARE contradictions.
Just like there are contradictions in the Bible.
Making the claim that there are no contradictions is simply ignoring the fact that there are.

As to Muslims 'having' to accept them..
I suppose that that is up to each individual Muslim.
I know several Muslims who not only admit that there are contradictions, but are even willing to point them out.
They then explain why said contradictions do not bother them enough to leave their faith.
The most common explanation being that most contradictions are merely human errors and/or oversights which do not affect the purpose of the Koran.

Guess what! You said the same thing in this thread three times. Until now you didn't address the points that Maro discussed. You posed some ayaats claiming they are contradictory and Maro did her part. If you think that Maro's approach is flawed, so why don't you enlighten us. If you found that your understanding and grasping of the ayats were deficient and Maro helped you to understand them so why don't you thank her! I hope you will not repeat the muslims like christians thing for the fourth time! Your argument is very weak.

 

[maro]

I look forward to reading your thoughts on the apparent contradiction raised by me earlier in this thread..

i did answer , jay. Haven't you read my reply yet ? , it's post # 26 and 27