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Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Particles in the spaces of our own solar system reflect light back to Earth. You say the night sky is lit up by sources of light. I am saying the night sky is lit up by many particles acting like the moon does, reflecting light.
 
Midnight Rain

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
godnotgod said:
You see what happens when the rational mind over-analyzes what it sees? If you didn't get it on the first shot, you probably never will. You're making much too much of it. Just cut to the chase, OK?
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I'm not over analyzing it actually. I could go into some overanalyzations but what do you mean by there is "one" light? What about an area of light and then other areas that are dark and then unconnected areas of light? What if I have two boxes that are totally cut off but each have a light bulb on but the lights never touch and no one is ever able to observe the two together? Are they still the same light?

In both cases there are simply to many exceptions to your claim or your claim isn't being made clear enough. What is it that you really mean when you say higher consciousness? Do you mean that the universe is like a person and has supreme intellect? But you have stated that the universe is "intellect". Then how do you define intellect that the universe some how "Is"?

godnotgod said:
The Sun is radiating countless rays of light, but we see only one light. Even better, countless stars are emanating light, but we see such starlight as one light on Earth.
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I'm going to need you to define light for me then. What is yours?

Because when I look up at the different stars I see several "lights". Not just one light.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Midnight Rain said:
I'm not over analyzing it actually. I could go into some overanalyzations but what do you mean by there is "one" light? What about an area of light and then other areas that are dark and then unconnected areas of light? What if I have two boxes that are totally cut off but each have a light bulb on but the lights never touch and no one is ever able to observe the two together? Are they still the same light?

In both cases there are simply to many exceptions to your claim or your claim isn't being made clear enough. What is it that you really mean when you say higher consciousness? Do you mean that the universe is like a person and has supreme intellect? But you have stated that the universe is "intellect". Then how do you define intellect that the universe some how "Is"?


I'm going to need you to define light for me then. What is yours?

Because when I look up at the different stars I see several "lights". Not just one light.
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As a human animal who lives in the wilderness, FAR from city lights, I can testify that on a moonless night, I would hardly describe starlight as being illuminating. It's farking dark out here.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
godnotgod said:
You're very welcome, Fake Bodhisattva!:p
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I see this is another thing you have become fixated on. You are a fascinating case study of denial, I give you that.

But, more seriously, albeit somewhat whimsically:

In Theravāda Buddhism said:
The term "bodhisatta" (Pāli language) was used by the Buddha in the Pāli canon to refer to himself both in his previous lives[5] and as a young man in his current life, prior to his enlightenment, in the period during which he was working towards his own liberation. When, during his discourses, he recounts his experiences as a young aspirant, he regularly uses the phrase "When I was an unenlightened bodhisatta..." The term therefore connotes a being who is "bound for enlightenment", in other words, a person whose aim is to become fully enlightened. In the Pāli canon, the bodhisatta is also described as someone who is still subject to birth, illness, death, sorrow, defilement, and delusion. Some of the previous lives of the Buddha as a bodhisattva are featured in the Jātakas.
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In Mahāyāna Buddhism said:
There are a variety of different conceptions of the nature of a bodhisattva in Mahāyāna. According to some Mahāyāna sources a bodhisattva is someone on the path to full Buddhahood. Others speak of bodhisattvas renouncing Buddhahood. According to the Kun-bzang bla-ma'i zhal-lung, a bodhisattva can choose any of three paths to help sentient beings in the process of achieving buddhahood. They are:
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In Mahāyāna Buddhism said:
  1. king-like bodhisattva - one who aspires to become buddha as soon as possible and then help sentient beings in full fledge;
  2. boatman-like bodhisattva - one who aspires to achieve buddhahood along with other sentient beings;
  3. shepherd-like bodhisattva - one who aspires to delay buddhahood until all other sentient beings achieve buddhahood. Bodhisattvas like Avalokiteśvara and Śāntideva are believed to fall in this category.
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Personally, I'm more a Theravāda kind o' guy, but what the heck, eh?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
YmirGF said:
I see this is another thing you have become fixated on. You are a fascinating case study of denial, I give you that.

But, more seriously, albeit somewhat whimsically:



Personally, I'm more a Theravāda kind o' guy, but what the heck, eh?
Click to expand...

The key element in all of these definitions is that of compassion for the suffering of others. It is an integral part of seeking the enlightened state. But since you seem to be a Buddhist aspirant, what do you say about the following excerpt:

ZenMeditation.png


 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
godnotgod said:
The key element in all of these definitions is that of compassion for the suffering of others. It is an integral part of seeking the enlightened state. But since you seem to be a Buddhist aspirant, what do you say about the following excerpt:

ZenMeditation.png
Click to expand...
Personally speaking, I've never been terribly impressed with Zen thinking or thinkers. To each their own, I suppose. Oh, and dealing with you is completely in line with my vision of helping to end the suffering that you help to create. I'm just here to help. :)

(One day you will thank me.)

That is also why I was so harsh about your comments regarding the plight of the human condition. You seem to have no empathy for your fellow human animals and demonstrate little understanding of genuine compassion. Just sayin'
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Spiny Norman said:
I think it's rather odd to put somebody on "ignore" because they disagree with you on a debate forum. I don't mind though because I have been spared GNG's latest round of abuse and personal insults. He can very unpleasant with people who disagree with him, quite nasty actually.
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You left out 'stubborn'.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
savagewind said:
We are all stubborn here. Aren't we? Haha. If life was the comics this is the place people would point to "that is where all the stubborn people go". That's true.
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Let's do a thread.....who is more stubborn?...heaven or hell.

GNG won't be found in either one....he does not believe in himself.
Heaven and hell won't either.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Heaven and hell is who not what? OK make it a question. Is heaven and hell who not what? LOL

I guess heaven is more stubborn.
 
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