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Does theism lead to immoral behaviour?

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
This so-called "blood guilt" text has been interpreted to mean that all Jews, of Jesus' time and forever afterward, accept responsibility for the death of Jesus.
Catholic/Orthodox Christians do not believe that .. they teach that all of humanity is to blame, and not just the Jews.
Historically though, yes .. many Christians blamed Jews for Jesus' [apparent] death.

However, as I say, it is not logical to blame others, and then claim that "it was all part of God's plan".
Orthodox Christianity depends on Jesus' dying and rising .. whatever..
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Catholic/Orthodox Christians do not believe that .. they teach that all of humanity is to blame, and not just the Jews.
Historically though, yes .. many Christians blamed Jews for Jesus' [apparent] death.

However, as I say, it is not logical to blame others, and then claim that "it was all part of God's plan".
Orthodox Christianity depends on Jesus' dying and rising .. whatever..
O course it was wrong to blame the Jews. Unfortunately you did not respond to the relevant posts, facts of scripture and the history of Christianity. Your attempt to cite Catholic Orthodox Christianity is incomplete and changes. The Roman Church is as guilty in history as any other church. Both followers of the Roman Church and the Eastern Churches participated in the annual passion plays describing the Jews as 'Christ killers.'

. . . and yes it also wrong to blame humanity scapegoating poor Adam and Eve (mythical humans) for the 'original sin', mythical Fall and all the suffering and sins of humanity. If there is an omneipotent all powerful God God would be responsible for everything in Creation including, of course, the natural sinful nature of humanity.
 
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DNB

Christian
If you don't have anything of substance for your reply, I guess this means you can't find anything to disagree with.
Is this an interpretation issue? ...I question your understanding of the Scriptures that you read, that lead you to the conclusions that you drew from the top of your head, in your previous post.
I profoundly doubt your ability to comprehend Scripture, either within a pericope, or in its totality.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Is this an interpretation issue? ...I question your understanding of the Scriptures that you read, that lead you to the conclusions that you drew from the top of your head, in your previous post.
I profoundly doubt your ability to comprehend Scripture, either within a pericope, or in its totality.

I have never read the Bible and nor do I plan on doing it.
I have a different faith and that is that.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
I have never read the Bible and nor do I plan on doing it.
I have a different faith and that is that.

In my opinion, reading the Bible can be a real eye-opener. It certainly was for me.

I was disappointed too, because I spent the majority of my life believing in Jesus and God. Like most former Christians I know, it was a real eye-opener for me when I got into researching the authenticity of the Bible and Christian theology. It began with a seed of doubt being planted as I helped my nephew obtain his Master of Theological Studies degree. A seed of doubt was sown while we studied the Bible and Christian theology as part of the requirements to earn the degree. The seed began to sprout during this time, and by the time I completed extensive training in an evangelistic ministry, it had grown into a fully flowering plant. I had read the Bible cover to cover several times before I began to help my nephew, but this was the first time I had read it with the intent to authenticate it. I read it without the influence of other Christians telling me what I should or should not believe about it. I suppose you could say that I read the Bible in a different light, which completely changed my perspective on it and made me to question everything I believed as a Christian. I tried to ignore all of my doubts for a long time, but I eventually reached a point where I couldn't. I realized I had to be honest with myself, and that's when I began to reevaluate what I believed as a Christian. This ultimately led to my decision to finally stop believing in God and renounce my Christian faith.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Oh boy, they want proof

First of all, I apologize for not believing you. I'll try very hard not to make that mistake again. However, I wasn't completely wrong in what I said. It IS a criminal mindset. This individual is not a native Israeli, is an American Trumper, was convicted of financial fraud, and was likely in prison for several years before joining the episodes, plural, in the occupied territories.


And, it's important to note that the Israeli government DID cease evictions in that neighborhood. It took a while, approx. 1 year, but it did happen.


The situation in East Jerusalem is complicted. That house might not belong to those Palestinians. This is hard to fathom from an American perspective, I assume you're American, because most people here mortgage home sales, and the bank or lender requires that an exhaustive search is done to see if there is any potential claimant on that land/property before the sale is finalized. The buyer pays for this service as part of the "closing costs". It's not expensive, but, if there is another claim on the property, legally it becomes very complicated to complete the purchase. And that's why all lenders require that this search is completed prior to finalizing the sale and transferring funds to the owner.

The net result is, that after a period of many years, property disputes where there are multiple claims on the property become very rare. Most property is purchased through a lender. The lender requires that a search is done. Eventually, after enough time has gone by, all property has been bought/sold. All property disputes get pro-actively identified and resolved. And, poof, property ownership disputes are very rare. But that is not the case in East Jerusalem; it's the opposite. The entire area is under dispute.

Below is an article from AlJazeera describing what's happening with those properties in East Jerusalem. They're being sold. And some of those owners, naturally, are not happy to find out that they are being sold to Israelis. But, is that the Israeli buyer's fault? They paid for it. The owner sold it, worked with Palestinians they trusted, the PA appoved it! So now what?


I'm not excusing what Yaacov the looney-tunes criminal said, "If I don't steal it, someone else will." But, the implication that Israeli settlers are thieves and criminals is not true. The land is being sold, and if there is a dispute about who owns it, that's a very complicated legal issue. Don't Palestinians have a right to sell their property? Don't Israelis have a right to buy it? If the Palestinian refuses to move out, should they be evicted? Yes! If there is a dispute is it complicated? Yes!

And, most important, if the Palestinian Authority is approving the sale, and the Palestinian owner is using a Palestinian real estate broker to sell their property, and an Israeli pays for the property, and the Israeli goes to take possession, and the Palestinian won't leave... does this warrant rockets being fired from Palestine into Israel? That's the most important question to ask. What sort of government approves a sale, then sends rockets when the new owner tries to take possession? A deeply corrupt violent dangerous government. And now a person has a glimpse of what is happening in Israel.
 
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muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
And now a person has a glimpse of what is happening in Israel.
It looks like a catastrophe to me..
I doubt very much whether Ishmael's and Isaac's seed can live in peace and harmony,
unless they love each other.

I also doubt whether blame lies solely on one side or the other.
..out with the old and in with the new .. I don't see any other way.
Will it happen? .. very unlikely, unfortunately.

..at least, not without more bloodshed.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Yeah, that was part of the story you told in another thread. That's how you knew the bombers were sweet fun guys before radicalization.

???

So smoking some pot with friends turned them into jihadi suicide terrorists?
Ironically, what are YOU smoking? :rolleyes:

No judgements towards you for hanging with them. But, there is some level of susceptibility to influence there that shouldn't be ignored if they were getting high and someone started incepting ideas.

Sheesh dude.
You seem to be seriously grasping at straws here.

This is a whole new form of denial. A new low.



OK! You reacted to my statement that "evil people will always find an excuse".

I still think that's true.

Yes, it's true.

The problem is that you try and use that excuse as if that's the whole story for all those radical theists who engage in attrocities.
That's just pure denial of reality.

Most of them weren't evil guys.
The ones I knew personally certainly weren't.
And when I read the life stories of many others, neither were they.

Radical theism turned them into evil monsters. And they even believed they were being righteous instead of evil.


But when you talk about people being radicalized, maybe those people weren't actually evil. The people who radicalized them could have been evil. The religion isn't evil, if a person cherry picks and becomes a social predator looking for people who can be manipulated, that person, the predator, is evil.

So, yeah, I'm denying that Islam is evil. I'm also denying that religion itself is evil. Why Am I denying it? Because I don't think it's true. There's too many counter examples to make a strong correlation. For example, here where I live, religious people are the ones championing gun control, and that's not a new thing.

I don't think I ever said that any particular religion is evil.
Instead, I'ld say that believing things on faith is immoral and dangerous.
Precisely because there is no reasonable limit to what one can believe on faith.

You can believe ANYTHING on faith.
When one doesn't use evidence and reason as a standard, one can believe anything.
Including that going on massive brutal killing sprees of massacring innocents, is "fighting the good fight".

And we see evidence of such every day.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Radical theism turned them into evil monsters..
You see religion as "the problem", whereas I see it as political.

I've met all kinds of people, and this "us v them" attitude arises from
the same sort of reasons as in Ukraine right now.
People become polarised about who is to blame, and spread hate.

Religion becomes involved, naturally, due to demographics.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
You see religion as "the problem", whereas I see it as political.

I've met all kinds of people, and this "us v them" attitude arises from
the same sort of reasons as in Ukraine right now.
People become polarised about who is to blame, and spread hate.

Religion becomes involved, naturally, due to demographics.
They didn't seem to care at all when they lived in Molenbeek as "moderate" muslims
They only started "caring" once radical islam came into their lives.
Then, it suddenly became a "holy" fight.

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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You mean that people will believe what they want to believe?
..nothing new there, then.

The difference is that someone with a holy book who believes what he wants to believe considers his opinion endorsed by God, and therefore is less open to having his mind changed.

Also, any time we replace the question "what's the best thing to do in this situation?" with "what does God want me to do in this situation?", we'll miss the mark more often.

There is no serious, scholarly opinion that believes that indiscriminate killing is ever lawful.
..and that would include exploding nuclear bombs on enemy cities.

No scholarly opinion that you take seriously, you mean.

Can human beings make decisions to do just that?
..we know the answer is yes.

And if you give those people a Bible or Quran, they'll still do it but sleep soundly at night "knowing" that they've carried out "God's will."
 
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