I don't think very many people actually believe what they claim to believe. People are often fickle and inconsistent, depending on the context and circumstances of whatever they're taking a stance on.
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Does wrong-doing figure into your election choice?
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
I don't think very many people actually believe what they claim to believe. People are often fickle and inconsistent, depending on the context and circumstances of whatever they're taking a stance on.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Former President Obama and then VP Biden spied on candidate Trump in 2016. The way they did it was worse than how Nixon spied on the opposing party during the 1972 election season; Watergate Hotel. Neither Obama/Biden or Nixon actually did the spying. In both cases, others did it on their behalf, with Nixon held accountable, but Obama and Biden escaped justice.
The Nixon spying led to his impeachment and his removal from the office of President. The way Obama and Biden spied on Trump, was far worse than what Nixon did. Obama and Biden used the FBI and CIA to do their dirty work, corrupting the FISA courts.
If we do the math, Biden should never have been allowed to run for president in 2020 or now in 2024, since spying in 1972, got another President permanently dismissed and shamed from the office of President. There is a legal precedent, created by the Democrats, during the Nixon era; spy standard. A young Biden ran for Senator in 1972 and won. Biden should have known better; he was illegitimate, since he was part of the Senate in 1973 when Nixon was impeached for spying.
Should an illegitimate president be allowed to remain in office and corrupt the justice system, so he cannot be removed even when he commits other offenses; influence peddling and censorship of free speech during an election? Should he also be able to use his corrupt injustice system to interfere in the election campaign of this primary opponent; Trump?
What should happen to everyone who conspired to install an illegitimate president, based on the Nixon precedent? This Nixon standard places Jan 6 in a new light; office of president was illegally stolen in 2020, based on the Nixon standard.
PureX
Veteran Member
The problem is that both parties have lost the trust of the American people. So that few actually believe that one candidate's legal transgressions, or lack thereof, will make any real difference in the course of their future. The wealthy elites will continue to rob the rest of us blind until we have nothing left. And neither party will do anything about it. Ever. Because all they care about if feeding themselves at the public trough.
So the question about us caring about the crimes of one candidate or another isn't really illuminating the issue. The real issue is that a whole lot of American citizens have so completely lost faith in their own governmental systems that they are willing to vote for someone as morally bankrupt and patantly absurd as Donald Trump, hoping that HE WILL DESTROY IT!
Is the bar really that low? That is concerning.
Not that I plan to vote for either one, I've said before, the more crap that sticks to Trump the more appealing he becomes to people.
Even if people don't like the guy, the start to respect his ability to withstand all of the hate and negativity thrown at him. He becomes the romantic outlaw character. The more despicable he is portrayed the more appealing this character becomes.
In fact I think it is all of the hate and negativity that has put him in this position. It is the anti-hero that people root for.
If the left had left him alone, I doubt he would have gotten the republican nomination in the first place.
One of my favorite movies was Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, which showed how easy it is for unscrupulous forces to tar and blacken an honest man and make him look guilty through the eyes of the media and public, even when he's innocent.
No one can ever be truly certain that what they're hearing from the government or media is really the truth or just some kind of BS hatchet job. Oftentimes, government statements and media memoranda can seem watered down and filtered - or sometimes we get trickle truth.
That's the drawback of a government and media with a decades-long track record of misinformation and lying (especially lies of omission). Even now, when they need the public to believe them, so many are thumbing their nose and saying "screw you." It's like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Now that the "wolf" is really here, they don't know what to do.
Exactly. There's where so many people missed the boat, thinking that the only thing they could do was turn the rhetoric up to 11. Once Trump was out of office, they should have ignored him and let him fade away. The desire to "get Trump" is so great in some people that they come off like "a man obsessed" and losing all sense of perspective. Consider this dialogue from Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan.
- Joachim : We're all with you, sir. But, consider this. We are free. We have a ship, and the means to go where we will. We have escaped permanent exile on Ceti Alpha V. You have defeated the plans of Admiral Kirk. You do not need to defeat him again.
Khan : [paraphrase from Melville's Moby Dick] He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!
Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
When it comes to local politics, corruption and criminal behavior is actually very low. They lie, sure, but even the lies are pretty bland and inoffensive outside of Seattle. It's weird to contrast what I see locally vs. how skewed and warped national politics has gotten. People have become very ok with very insane things
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The conviction and the sentencing if there is one.
Of course you have evidence for this, I've no doubt. And fascinatingly, Trump ran the administration from 2016 until January 2021, and his admin never turned up anything at all! So I can hardly wait for your reply.
Guess you missed the two judgements against Trump in the E. Jean Carroll case, and the N.Y. fraud case, totalling half a billion dollars!
Some of us demand a higher standard of our elected officials. For some people, a politician is unacceptable well before we get to the point of having to ask "but is he guilty of serious felonies related to election-rigging beyond a reasonable doubt?"
tytlyf
Not Religious
It doesn't concern me. It's way too early. And never focus on 1 poll. Always look at averages like RCP or 538. The difference is less than 2 points.
Elections are, to some extent, lending power to candidates.
Voting for candidates with known criminal and ammoral behavior can't help but embolden that criminal and weaken the enforcement of law and the nurture of moral values.
It is difficult to even attempt to ignore that at the current times.
Voting for candidates with known criminal and ammoral behavior can't help but embolden that criminal and weaken the enforcement of law and the nurture of moral values.
It is difficult to even attempt to ignore that at the current times.
I believe complicity should be acknowledged and that it should inform our vote.
And one can't help but notice that Joe Biden has been a complicit right-centrist for over half a century. As a said immediately above, I believe complicity should be acknowledged and that it should inform our vote. I will nevertheless vote for Biden.
PureX
Veteran Member
The wealthy capitalists own them both (government and media). So we can no long trust what either of them says. They are now just the paid liars for their masters. The real enemy is capitalism, as it is inevitable that capitalism will drive any society foolish enough to engage in it into this situation. But no one wants to face this reality, yet. Because capitalism has posed such a huge existential threat to so many people the idea of trying something else scares us to death. But it's only going to get worse, because that's the inevitable result of a greed based economic system. We should have acted to reign it in long ago, and we did, to an extent. But greed can't be satiated and it doesn't play fair, so momentary good intentions and minimal restraints will not dissuade it's destructive course.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm not with the guilty until innocent crowd.
I'll stick with the innocent until proven guilty bunch.
When it comes to elected officials, I'm with the "makes good policies and respects democracy" crowd, not the "no felony convictions and we're good" crowd.