Doesn't that sound like word of God?

[Right_Path]

Hey Ben, I know i'm a bit late...but I am busy these days

Anyways here you go

I doubt very much that the Jews of Medina or any Jew would put his faith
on the claim that Muhammad was God's messenger. A messenger from God, as far as a Jew is concerned, must be tested in the light of Isaiah 8:20. To the "Law and the Prophets" if such a messenger won't speak accordingly, it's because there is no light in him. And Muhammad could never have passed that test.

You must know that Jews of Medina have actually put Mohamed PBUH to that test and he pefectly passed it...it is well known for us.

I guess you think the opposite, but let me ask you something.

If Mohamed failed the prophecy test, the Jews would have spread the word in Mecca and thus his message would come under scrutiny.

Aha! So, Assad has got a point. It means you believe that the Jews killed
Jesus. It only shows how much ignorance of NT History you have, and how Antisemitism still exists in both Islam and Christianity.

No...I meant that he has a point in questioning the Americans' unrest with Muslims rather than Jews.

I am sorry to tell you that Antisemitism is a Jewsih obsession...you think that anyone who disagrees with you is antisemitic...there is nothing in Islam that instigates antisemitism.

If Islam was the way you picture, we would not have lost so many Jews to Islam. Why would Muhammad kill the Jews of Medina, because they refused to recognize him as God's messenger? Nonsense! There is much more to it in there that
you either don't know or don't want to talk about.

First: Lost so many Jews to Islam!!...can't you see who is doing more killing in the Middle East?!

Second: Who the hell said that Mohamed killed the Jews of Medina?

For you Muslims, no doubt about it. Not to the Jews. Muslims even consider a guarantee of Heavens to kill a Jew. Be careful not to contradic me because I live in Israel and my ears are tired to hear this from Muslims.

Guarantee heaven to killing a Jew!!!!!

If Muslims around you told you that...please tell them 'SHAME ON YOU'.

In Islam, we have strict rules for Jihad...maybe this could help you get a brighter image:

-Killing is never allowed unless there is announced war...a Muslim is not allowed to kill civillians from the enemy in time of peace.

-Killing women, children or old men is prohibited in time of war.

-Killing someone who has surrendered is not allowed.

I know you might see something different in Israel, but many of what is happening there does not reflect the right image of Islam.

Bear in mind that Palestinians are wretched because of what your government is doing there.

And mind you, Hitler had the blessing of Islam for the Holocaust. The Mufty of Jerusalem was in Germany for that very purpose: To bless the Nazis in their enterprise. I watched
the documentary, before you reply this by saying that I am lying.

I won't say you are lying...I'd say you were decieved...you've been lied to.

Anyone who would bless Hitler's acts does not even deserve to be called a Muslim.

Islam totally contracdicts with what the Nazis have committed...I dont have to explain this...if any Muslim backe Hitler...Islam is innocent from this corrupt blessing!

Why would the Holocaust have that effect? You don't suppose I would become a Muslim or Christian afterwards, do you?

[/quote]

Not that....I meant that the Holocaust did not have an effect on Judaism...because Jews are still present.

 

[Ben Masada]

Hey Ben, I know i'm a bit late...but I am busy these days

Anyways here you go

[/i]

You must know that Jews of Medina have actually put Mohamed PBUH to that test and he pefectly passed it...it is well known for us.

+++Ben: - No, I do not know and I don't believe because the test of Isaiah 8:20 is according to Judaism and Islam has nothing to do with Judaism.

I guess you think the opposite, but let me ask you something.

If Mohamed failed the prophecy test, the Jews would have spread the word in Mecca and thus his message would come under scrutiny.

+++Ben: - That's also not true because at that time, no one could do anything in terms of spreading another faith which was not Islam. Anyone who would not accept Islam would be cosidered to be in "Jihad" with Islam; and for that exact reason many had to go through the cold sword of Islam. So, don't think I am not aware of History.

No...I meant that he has a point in questioning the Americans' unrest with Muslims rather than Jews.
I am sorry to tell you that Antisemitism is a Jewsih obsession...you think that anyone who disagrees with you is antisemitic...there is nothing in Islam that instigates antisemitism.

+++Ben: - Sorry my friend, but I have to repeat what I said: I live in Israel and I see on the TV, Antisemitism being preached from the pulpits of Misgads by Muslim clergy.
If something like that can come on the TV, God knows what goes through when the TV is not on them.

First: Lost so many Jews to Islam!!...can't you see who is doing more killing in the Middle East?!

+++Ben: - "Palestinian" Arabs are the ones doing all the killing in Israel. How? I'll tell you how. When they activily kill indiscrinately as suicide bombs, and passively when they kill theselves by attacking the Israelis. If they did not attack the Israelis, none would get killed. Therefore, they are the ones killing and being killed by themselves.

Second: Who the hell said that Mohamed killed the Jews of Medina?

+++Ben: - Books. They write things like that too in books. I am going back to the library to check where I read about that.

Guarantee heaven to killing a Jew!!!!!
If Muslims around you told you that...please tell them 'SHAME ON YOU'.
In Islam, we have strict rules for Jihad...maybe this could help you get a brighter image:
-Killing is never allowed unless there is announced war...a Muslim is not allowed to kill civillians from the enemy in time of peace.
-Killing women, children or old men is prohibited in time of war.
-Killing someone who has surrendered is not allowed.

+++Ben: - I don't know what kind of Islam you are talking about. Arafat himself used to say that not only heaven was guaranteed by killing a Jew, but also with 70 virgins to those that by killing Jews would get killed in the process. Right Path, Are you trying to stop the Sun with a sieve? What about the killing on the Trade Center building on
9/11? Whom are you trying to kid with? Even in America, if they didn't know about Islam before 9/11, today it's gonna be very hard for you to sell this Islam you are trying to restore.

I know you might see something different in Israel, but many of what is happening there does not reflect the right image of Islam.

+++Ben: - That's exactly what Christians say when I bring to their memory the attrocities of the Crusades and the Inquisition. They say that those Christians did not reflect the right image of Christianity. You guys never fail!

Bear in mind that Palestinians are wretched because of what your government is doing there.

+++Ben: - You say that, because you either ignore or deny History. The "Palestinians" are wretched because of the irresponsibilities of your own brothers, the several countries that decided together to invade Israel with the purpose to push the Jews into the sea. Before they did that, they persuaded the "Palestinians" to leave Israel and return later to take over the homes of the Jews for themselves. What a fiasco! They lost shamefully and did worse by refusing to fix their mistake by rescueing the "Palestinian" refugees that they themselves had caused. "Palestinians" should sue them in international Courts, so that they should use their rich petrol dollars to fix what they did to the "Palestinians." Therefore, Israel has nothing to do with their being wretched. Sorry to disappoint you.

I won't say you are lying...I'd say you were decieved...you've been lied to.
Anyone who would bless Hitler's acts does not even deserve to be called a Muslim.
slam totally contracdicts with what the Nazis have committed...I dont have to explain this...if any Muslim backe Hitler...Islam is innocent from this corrupt
blessing!

+++Ben: - Documentary pictures don't lie my friend. I know what you are trying to do. I am sorry because perhaps in your place I would do the same in defense of Islam, if I was a Muslim. Do you know something? I am sure you can handle your computer better than I can handle mine. I watched a documentary link about the Mufty with Hitler in Germany doing all his dirty work. You might be able to find if you wish to.

Not that....I meant that the Holocaust did not have an effect on Judaism...because Jews are still present.

+++Ben: - I still do not understand well enough what you mean by "the Holocaust did not have an effect on Judaism...because Jews are still present." But of course, we
are still present! Did you expect us to finish with the Holocaust? If we had finished in that Holocaust, the whole world would have finished in a universal catastrophe, according to Jeremiah 31:35-37.
[/quote]

+++Ben: - My comments go in between yours.

Ben :shout

 

[Right_Path]

No, I do not know and I don't believe because the test of Isaiah 8:20 is according to Judaism and Islam has nothing to do with Judaism.

I didn't say it had anything to do with Judaism...it was actually a series of questions and he answered it via the Quran.

Most Importantly, the Phrophecy Mark was found at his shoulders.

That's also not true because at that time, no one could do anything in terms of spreading another faith which was not Islam. Anyone who would not accept Islam would be cosidered to be in "Jihad" with Islam; and for that exact reason many had to go through the cold sword of Islam. So, don't think I am not aware of History.

First...I didnt say 'spreading another faith'...Judaism was already established in the Peninsula, I meant they would have a chance to face Mohamed with a reasonable fact.

Second...It is not true that anyone who would not accept Islam at the time would go under the sword..that is rubbish.

Islam rejectants at that time would only be obliged to pay a VERY scant amount of money called (Gezia) for living among Muslims.

Again...Mohamed PBUH and his companions were not at war with Jews, they fought against Pagans...but SOME Jews helped pagans unfortunately.

Sorry my friend, but I have to repeat what I said: I live in Israel and I see

on the TV, Antisemitism being preached from the pulpits of Misgads by Muslim clergy.
If something like that can come on the TV, God knows what goes through when the TV is not on them.

What you see on TV is directly related to the events in the middle east...this is time of war for them Ben...you are considered enemy for people you see doing that on TV.

But in general, Islam is against any type of racism such as antisemitism.

If what you say is true, then the Quran and Mohamed's speaches would have warned us against you.

Yes, The Quran condemns Jews in some verses, but the message is intended for a section of your ancestors...for example: Jews who said that God is poor, Jews who claimed God has a son...etc..

"Palestinian" Arabs are the ones doing all the killing in Israel. How? I'll tell you how. When they activily kill indiscrinately as suicide bombs, and passively when they kill theselves by attacking the Israelis. If they did not attack the Israelis, none would get killed. Therefore, they are the ones killing and being killed by themselves.

I am NOT talking about Palestinians who hold stones and then think themselves brave to attack a fully-armed Israeli soldier..this is completely wrong.

and you should know that indiscrminant killing is totally rejected in Jihad...some of the suicide bombings are also forbidden as long as they do more harm than good.

You should know that Jihad has very specific and strict rules, alot of what you see from Palestinians is unfortunately wrong in respect to Islamic Jihad.

Suicide bombing is only allowed if the outcome will save more lives than those who would get killed.

But I am talking about crushing the homes of power-less poor people, killing children and spreading fear in Jerusalem using the false excuse that a Palestinian attacked an Israeli.

Guarantee heaven to killing a Jew!!!!!
If Muslims around you told you that...please tell them 'SHAME ON YOU'.
In Islam, we have strict rules for Jihad...maybe this could help you get a brighter image:
-Killing is never allowed unless there is announced war...a Muslim is not allowed to kill civillians from the enemy in time of peace.
-Killing women, children or old men is prohibited in time of war.
-Killing someone who has surrendered is not allowed.

I don't know what kind of Islam you are talking about. Arafat himself used to say that not only heaven was guaranteed by killing a Jew, but also with 70 virgins to those

that by killing Jews would get killed in the process. Right Path, Are you trying to stop the Sun with a sieve? What about the killing on the Trade Center building on
9/11? Whom are you trying to kid with? Even in America, if they didn't know about Islam before 9/11, today it's gonna be very hard for you to sell this Islam you are trying to restore.

Listen here, set your political beliefs aside please, we are talking about religion.

Arafat did not represent Islam, he represented Palestine...in Jihad, heaven is guaranteed only for the one who got killed in DEFENSE of his religion or country.

When you want to learn about something critical like Jihad...do not listen to Arafat, listen to Mohamed PBUH.

'70 virgins to those that by killing Jews would get killed in the process'...the Hadeeth (speach) of the 70 virgins did not include anything about Jews!...see thats the point, you wanna know about Islam, forget the talk of leaders like Arafat.

and please don't mention 9/11...because Islam has nothing to do with what happend there.

Apart from the increasingly occuring uncertainty that Muslims are behind the attacks, what happened is vehemently rejected by Islam.

That's exactly what Christians say when I bring to their memory the attrocities of the Crusades and the Inquisition. They say that those Christians did not reflect the right image of Christianity. You guys never fail!

Its not our problem, nor Christians' problem, its your problem that you often argue relying on excuses like ''Muslims have done, Christians have killed''...etc...

Look at the scriptures, if you found what supports your 'antisemitism' claims, then you have a point.

You say that, because you either ignore or deny History. The "Palestinians"

are wretched because of the irresponsibilities of your own brothers, the several countries that decided together to invade Israel with the purpose to push the Jews into the sea. Before they did that, they persuaded the "Palestinians" to leave Israel and return later to take over the homes of the Jews for themselves. What a fiasco! They lost shamefully and did worse by refusing to fix their mistake by rescueing the "Palestinian" refugees that they themselves had caused. "Palestinians" should sue them in international Courts, so that they should use their rich petrol dollars to fix what they did to the "Palestinians." Therefore, Israel has nothing to do with their being wretched. Sorry to disappoint you.

First..I am not wiling to speak about politics...We are talking about Islam and Judaism.

Second...you did not disappoint me.

Documentary pictures don't lie my friend. I know what you are trying to

do. I am sorry because perhaps in your place I would do the same in defense of Islam, if I was a Muslim. Do you know something? I am sure you can handle your computer better than I can handle mine. I watched a documentary link about the Mufty with Hitler in Germany doing all his dirty work. You might be able to find if you wish to.

Its as simple as that..if this ''Mufty'' did that...he is out of Islam.

Again, same problem...someone screwed up, blame Islam:no:

I still do not understand well enough what you mean by "the Holocaust did

not have an effect on Judaism...because Jews are still present." But of course, we
are still present!.

You tell me how did the Holocaust affect the religion of Judaism: i.e: The Torah and teachings of Moses?

Did you expect us to finish with the Holocaust? If we had finished

in that Holocaust, the whole world would have finished in a universal catastrophe, according to Jeremiah 31:35-37.

Why are you opening this subject, I mentioned nothing like that!

 

[Ben Masada]

[/color]

I didn't say it had anything to do with Judaism...it was actually a series of questions and he answered it via the Quran.

Most Importantly, the Phrophecy Mark was found at his shoulders.
First...I didnt say 'spreading another faith'...Judaism was already established in the Peninsula, I meant they would have a chance to face Mohamed with a reasonable fact.
Second...It is not true that anyone who would not accept Islam at the time would go under the sword..that is rubbish.

+++Ben: - The Islamic policy of Jihad when Muhammad started his campaigns of conquest was first to send a commission of representatives to a certain Country with proposals of peace in light of submission. If the commitee was unsuccessful, Muhammad would open war and the Country was conquered by the sword of Islam.

Islam rejectants at that time would only be obliged to pay a VERY scant amount of money called (Gezia) for living among Muslims.

+++Ben: - And loss of indenpendency by the Country conquered.

Again...Mohamed PBUH and his companions were not at war with Jews, they fought against Pagans...but SOME Jews helped pagans unfortunately.

+++Ben: - In the Twelveth and Thirteenth Centuries the Jews suffered forced conversion to Islam. Moses Maimonides had to fake for a short while in order to escape the sword of Islam in Cordovah and ran away to Akko in Israel, and form there to Egypt where Muslims were less fanatics, and he became a Court Doctor.



What you see on TV is directly related to the events in the middle east...this is time of war for them Ben...you are considered enemy for people you see doing that on TV. But in general, Islam is against any type of racism such as antisemitism.


+++Ben: - Nevertheless, they speak in the name of Islam, just as you are doing now in a peaceful way.

If what you say is true, then the Quran and Mohamed's speaches would have warned us against you.
Yes, The Quran condemns Jews in some verses, but the message is intended for a section of your ancestors...for example: Jews who said that God is poor, Jews who claimed God has a son...etc..



I am NOT talking about Palestinians who hold stones and then think themselves brave to attack a fully-armed Israeli soldier..this is completely wrong.
and you should know that indiscrminant killing is totally rejected in Jihad...some of the suicide bombings are also forbidden as long as they do more harm than good.


+++Ben: - What good would do stone-throwing? I myself when visiting the Cave of Machpelah in Hebron had to hide on the floor of the bus to escape being hit by stones.
Mind you, a bus is not a full-army tank. That's why I justify killing to abate such a violence.

You should know that Jihad has very specific and strict rules, alot of what you see from Palestinians is unfortunately wrong in respect to Islamic Jihad.
Suicide bombing is only allowed if the outcome will save more lives than those who would get killed.


+++Ben: - Oh! So, suicide is allowed in Islam according to the outcome. That's a reprehensive doctrine to allow suicide no matter what.

But I am talking about crushing the homes of power-less poor people, killing children and spreading fear in Jerusalem using the false excuse that a Palestinian attacked an Israeli.


+++Ben: - Tell me, if you see an anaconda in your yard threatening your livestock and the lives of your children, how do you go there to fight it, not with the best of your guns?
But why if the anaconda brings no extra arms but only herself? Because you want to cut off the issue from the root and eliminate the threat. That's what is happening in Israel.
The Israelis should have pushed all of them into the desert in 1948 when they tried to push the Jews into the sea. It would have been only paying back with the same coin.

Guarantee heaven to killing a Jew!!!!!
If Muslims around you told you that...please tell them 'SHAME ON YOU'.
In Islam, we have strict rules for Jihad...maybe this could help you get a brighter image:
-Killing is never allowed unless there is announced war...a Muslim is not allowed to kill civillians from the enemy in time of peace.
-Killing women, children or old men is prohibited in time of war.
-Killing someone who has surrendered is not allowed.


+++Ben: - Great! Tell all this to the "Palestinians."



Listen here, set your political beliefs aside please, we are talking about religion.
Arafat did not represent Islam, he represented Palestine...in Jihad, heaven is guaranteed only for the one who got killed in DEFENSE of his religion or country.


+++Ben: - How about Muslims who get killed by attacking Jewish children with "Allah Who Achbah" in their mouths? This sounds Islam to me.

When you want to learn about something critical like Jihad...do not listen to Arafat, listen to Mohamed PBUH.


+++Ben: - How different did Muhammad do during his campaigns of conquests? Not much different.

'70 virgins to those that by killing Jews would get killed in the process'...the Hadeeth (speach) of the 70 virgins did not include anything about Jews!...see thats the point, you wanna know about Islam, forget the talk of leaders like Arafat.

+++Ben: - I understand what you mean; the issue is that they spoke for Islam. "Islam teaches..." he and some others would start.

and please don't mention 9/11...because Islam has nothing to do with what happend there.

+++Ben: - Try to sell this one to the Americans.

Apart from the increasingly occuring uncertainty that Muslims are behind the attacks, what happened is vehemently rejected by Islam.

+++Ben: - Please, tell me you are joking! Are you about to enlighten me with one of those conspiracy theories?



Its not our problem, nor Christians' problem, its your problem that you often argue relying on excuses like ''Muslims have done, Christians have killed''...etc...
Look at the scriptures, if you found what supports your 'antisemitism' claims, then you have a point.

First..I am not wiling to speak about politics...We are talking about Islam and Judaism.
Second...you did not disappoint me.


Its as simple as that..if this ''Mufty'' did that...he is out of Islam.
Again, same problem...someone screwed up, blame Islam:no:


+++Ben: - The same onld excuse: If the Muslim behaves nicely like you now, viva Islam! But if the Muslim behaves like the Mufti, he is out; that's not Islam.
That's a cop out, which no longer fools anyone.

You tell me how did the Holocaust affect the religion of Judaism: i.e: The Torah and teachings of Moses?

+++Ben: - Now, I understand what you mean. Thanks for this one.

Why are you opening this subject, I mentioned nothing like that!

+++Ben: - Okay, sorry! so let's leave it out.

My comments follow yours in between

Ben :clap

 

[Right_Path]

The Islamic policy of Jihad when Muhammad started his campaigns of conquest was first to send a commission of representatives to a certain Country with proposals of peace in light of submission. If the commitee was unsuccessful, Muhammad would open war and the Country was conquered by the sword of Islam.

This in not right, it did not go like that.

Yes, Mohamed PBUH sent a commission of representatives to different countries with proposals of Islam.If the leaders of these countries rejected Islam, they would be asked to allow Muslims spread the message inside the country (peacefully)...if they rejected, Muslims would go to the country without war and try offering people Islam, if they were denied by force, war would start.

No invasion, no forced Islam and no war against rejectants.

Nevertheless, they speak in the name of Islam, just as you are doing now

in a peaceful way.

They speak in the name of Islam, but not everything they say and do reflects the genuine image of the religion.

Oh! So, suicide is allowed in Islam according to the outcome. That's a reprehensive doctrine to allow suicide no matter what.

Absolutely No...i'll give you an example.

Would you sacrifice your own life to save the lives of several others?

Thats when you are ONLY allowed to commit suicide.

Tell me, if you see an anaconda in your yard threatening your livestock

and the lives of your children, how do you go there to fight it, not with the best of your guns?
But why if the anaconda brings no extra arms but only herself? Because you want to cut off the issue from the root and eliminate the threat. That's what is happening in Israel.
The Israelis should have pushed all of them into the desert in 1948 when they tried to push the Jews into the sea. It would have been only paying back with the same coin.

Are you saying that killing babies and children is a right for the purpose of cutting off the enemy from the root??

How about Muslims who get killed by attacking Jewish children with "Allah

Who Achbah" in their mouths? This sounds Islam to me.

Islam is innocent from anyone who kills children.

How different did Muhammad do during his campaigns of conquests? Not much different.

No comparison...leaders mainly care about politics.

Mohamed PBUH had a specified mission of spreading his God-given message like any other messenger would do...I think I have already replied to your 'conquest' claims.

Try to sell this one to the Americans.

Please, tell me you are joking! Are you about to enlighten me with one of those conspiracy theories?

Loose Change documentary

The same onld excuse: If the Muslim behaves nicely like you now, viva Islam! But if the Muslim behaves like the Mufti, he is out; that's not Islam.

That's a cop out, which no longer fools anyone.

Thats why I am telling you go for the origin to eliminate the conflict.

The Quran and the speaches of Mohamed will beat the wrong acts of some Muslims, and finally you might be able to get the right picture.

 

[Ben Masada]

This in not right, it did not go like that.

Yes, Mohamed PBUH sent a commission of representatives to different countries with proposals of Islam.If the leaders of these countries rejected Islam, they would be asked to allow Muslims spread the message inside the country (peacefully)...if they rejected, Muslims would go to the country without war and try offering people Islam, if they were denied by force, war would start.

+++Ben: - I am sorry my friend, but you don't know the History of your own religion.

No invasion, no forced Islam and no war against rejectants.

They speak in the name of Islam, but not everything they say and do reflects the genuine image of the religion.

Absolutely No...i'll give you an example.

Would you sacrifice your own life to save the lives of several others?

+++Ben: - No, I would not, and Judaism does not require such a sacrifice from anyone, whomsoever. Even for children or for parents one is not required to sacrifice his life. Perhaps to fight for the defense of others but no stupidly sacrifice one's life for anyone else.

Thats when you are ONLY allowed to commit suicide.

+++Ben: - That's what I meant by reprehensive religious doctrine.



Are you saying that killing babies and children is a right for the purpose of cutting off the enemy from the root??

+++Ben: - I did not imply killing of children. I said to pay with the same coin by pushing all the Arabic population into the desert to be rescued by those who caused
their refugee status and for their intent to push the Jews into the sea. By the way, I think I should remind you that Jews also have children. And if Israel had lost that war, God only knows how many children had been drawned by the invading Arabic armies, whose objective they had never made a secret of it.


Islam is innocent from anyone who kills children.

+++Ben: - You are preaching a different Islam that I had never heard of it. Since the only one I live with is extremely bellicose, I better keep my guards up.

No comparison...leaders mainly care about politics.
Mohamed PBUH had a specified mission of spreading his God-given message like any other messenger would do...I think I have already replied to your 'conquest' claims.

Try to sell this one to the Americans.

Loose Change documentary

Thats why I am telling you go for the origin to eliminate the conflict.
The Quran and the speaches of Mohamed will beat the wrong acts of some Muslims, and finally you might be able to get the right picture.

My comments follow yours in between

Ben )(

 

[.lava]

Would you sacrifice your own life to save the lives of several others?

Thats when you are ONLY allowed to commit suicide.

hi Right Path,

suicide is one the worst sins one could ever commit. i do not know what you mean by this but i sincerely hope that you see 'letting yourself to death' or 'knowingly killing yourself' is one way ticket to hell. you are never allowed to commit suicide. you do what you can, that's all.



.

 

[.lava]

+++Ben: - You are preaching a different Islam that I had never heard of it. Since the only one I live with is extremely bellicose, I better keep my guards up.

if ignorance of men could reflect those virtues one might have by purifying his ego, then God might not reveal recipe to show people the right way. being born in an Islamic nation would not automaticly give the knowledge of Qur'an into people. you get nothing without effort. rage, anger are vices of ego. one either fights himself or he fights with others.


.

 

[Ben Masada]

if ignorance of men could reflect those virtues one might have by purifying his ego, then God might not reveal recipe to show people the right way. being born in an Islamic nation would not automaticly give the knowledge of Qur'an into people. you get nothing without effort. rage, anger are vices of ego. one either fights himself or he fights with others.

Way to go .lava! It's proof that you too can think. That's beautiful!

Ben:clap

 

[Ben Masada]

hi Right Path,

suicide is one the worst sins one could ever commit. i do not know what you mean by this but i sincerely hope that you see 'letting yourself to death' or 'knowingly killing yourself' is one way ticket to hell. you are never allowed to commit suicide. you do what you can, that's all.

I am almost entirely in agreement with you. The "almost" is for the "one-way ticket
to hell." The one-way ticket is to the grave, wherefrom one will never return.

Ben

 

[.lava]

I am almost entirely in agreement with you. The "almost" is for the "one-way ticket
to hell." The one-way ticket is to the grave, wherefrom one will never return.

Ben

one-way-ticket-to-hell. because he is dead, therefor would not have chance for forgiveness. this verse below says, God gives and takes life. killing yourself 'knowingly' is playing God. a.k.a worshiping his own ego.

[50:43] Verily it is We Who give Life and Death; and to Us is the Final Goal,


.

 

[.lava]

Way to go .lava! It's proof that you too can think. That's beautiful!

Ben:clap

dear Ben, i do not have 'my way'. to purify ego and to turn vices of ego into virtues is command of God and i obey.


.

 

[Ben Masada]

one-way-ticket-to-hell. because he is dead, therefor would not have chance for forgiveness. this verse below says, God gives and takes life. killing yourself 'knowingly' is playing God. a.k.a worshiping his own ego.

[50:43] Verily it is We Who give Life and Death; and to Us is the Final Goal,


.

Okay .lava, 50:43, but of what book?

Ben

 

[.lava]

Okay .lava, 50:43, but of what book?

Ben

lol what do you think? as you may remember Right Path claimed that in certain conditions God allows Muslims to commit suicide. so as a Muslim, i bring verses from Qur'an to show who's business to take one's life.


.

 

[Ben Masada]

lol what do you think? as you may remember Right Path claimed that in certain conditions God allows Muslims to commit suicide. so as a Muslim, i bring verses from Qur'an to show who's business to take one's life.

Oh! Sorry, I had missed that one. The point is that I like to confirm every quotation
one uses here.

Ben

 

[Right_Path]

hi Right Path,

suicide is one the worst sins one could ever commit. i do not know what you mean by this but i sincerely hope that you see 'letting yourself to death' or 'knowingly killing yourself' is one way ticket to hell. you are never allowed to commit suicide. you do what you can, that's all.

Yes .lava you are definitely right and I am completely aware of that, but my point is about sacrificing your life to save more other lives.

Like what companion Abou-Dujana did with prophet Mohamed PBUH, it was suicidal, but he died shahid.

I just used the term 'suicide' in relation to suicide bombings, but note that I am against suicide bombings.

 

[.lava]

Yes .lava you are definitely right and I am completely aware of that, but my point is about sacrificing your life to save more other lives.

Like what companion Abou-Dujana did with prophet Mohamed PBUH, it was suicidal, but he died shahid.

I just used the term 'suicide' in relation to suicide bombings, but note that I am against suicide bombings.

OK, but this is very open to be misunderstood if you use the term 'suicide' because it only means 'killing yourself knowingly'. i can't recall Abou-Dujana, if he died trying to save life of Prophet, it is not a suicide. he did not want to kill himself, he wanted to save Prophet and died trying. there is a difference. it is advice of our Prophet, he says about suicide 'don't even think about it'. suicide bombers end up hell. people who commit suicide end up hell.


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[.lava]

hi Right_Path i don't know if you quoted verse about suicide. i would like to post it anyway. i think it is important.

[4:29] O ye who believe! eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: but let there be amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-will: nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!


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[Ben Masada]

one-way-ticket-to-hell. because he is dead, therefor would not have chance for forgiveness. this verse below says, God gives and takes life. killing yourself 'knowingly' is playing God. a.k.a worshiping his own ego.

[50:43] Verily it is We Who give Life and Death; and to Us is the Final Goal,


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God does not interfere with man's life on this earth. The "God gives and takes life"
is a metaphorical expression of hope that God is on the driving seat. When life is given or taken, there is always a reason disconnected from God.

Ben

 

[.lava]

God does not interfere with man's life on this earth. The "God gives and takes life"
is a metaphorical expression of hope that God is on the driving seat. When life is given or taken, there is always a reason disconnected from God.

Ben

what can i say Ben? you obviously did not have chance to learn about concepts of Tasavvuf. there are incidents that's free from your free will so you can not control them. as you can not chose what i am gonna say...because it is your destiny to read this but it is not my destiny to write it. you can not control my words, i do. destiny and free will works at the same time. life is never depend on just one of them.


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