Dominion over the earth

[Kathryn]

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."--Genesis 1:24-26

In this crucial passage from the Old Testament, God grants mankind power over animals. But with this privilege comes the grave responsibility to respect life, to treat animals with simple dignity and compassion.

Somewhere along the way, something has gone wrong.


Amazon.com: Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy (9780312319731): Matthew Scully: Books

Most people realize that the meat industry is rife with animal abuse.

Spoiler: graphic image of animal cruelty in the meat industry

Spoiler: graphic image of animal cruelty in the meat industry

Spoiler: graphic image of animal cruelty in the meat industry

Spoiler: graphic image of animal cruelty in the meat industry

Here's my question - how much personal responsibility should we take for this abuse of power? Every day, millions of animals are confined, unnaturally restrained, force fed, and pumped full of hormones simply so they will grow fast, to be killed fast at maximum profit - short miserable lives just so that we can have Hamburger Helper or chicken strips when we want.

Should we be supporting these industries and companies?

I read the book "Dominion" years ago and though I couldn't really put it out of my head, I still didn't take drastic steps to pull my support of the meat industry till now, for a variety of reasons - some or all of which you may also have. My point is not to judge others for mindlessly or casually eating a hamburger. And my point is not to say we shouldn't eat meat - I do believe that it's morally acceptable to eat meat - my issue is with the cruelty of the meat industry.

My husband and I recently decided that we simply will not support this industry knowingly or willingly. We have found a source that raises meat organically, without hormones, chemicals, unnatural foods or forced feeding, and in hygienic and humane conditions - outside and in spacious barns when necessary. Their motto is this:

Cows eat grass. Chickens eat bugs. Pigs root around outside.

The meat is more expensive, but hey, guess what - we don't need copious amounts of meat anyway. Not only that, but we are actually saving money by eating out a lot less often. Personally, the joy has sort of left the whole eating out thing for me when I think about how that meat gets to my table.

I am not judging others, but simply sharing my own perspective. What are your thoughts?

 

[fulp]

I am not judging others, but simply sharing my own perspective. What are your thoughts?

I think that's fantastic. I went vegetarian for 7 years when I saw "Faces of Death" at age of 15, but I slid back a bit. I'm not so much against eating meat, as appaled by what is going on behind the scenes, and I agree with just about everything you said, so thanks for bringing that up. That's the most important thing to do IMHO, because this stuff is usually out of direct sight, and easily dismissed. Think about it: it's considered impolite to tell someone what they're eating, while they're eating it -- and not because it actually is, but because we navigated ourselves into a big stupid mess. And yes, we are responsible. And most of us actually do love those animals lots when we encounter them alive, we might kill and eat them, but we wouldn't torture them like that, so that can't be healthy psychologically either. I know this is a bit over the top, but imagine your neighbour (whom you like) being beaten, and when that happens, you just turn up the music and kinda drown it out. It's schizophrenic, for the lack of a better word. And I wouldn't want us to get rid of our empathy, so we should act on it. The current situation is completely untenable.


^ I love how that could be applied to a lot of other things, too. Consumerism + alienation = no wait, let's not do that.

 

[Kathryn]

I think that's fantastic. I went vegetarian for 7 years when I saw "Faces of Death" at age of 15, but I slid back a bit. I'm not so much against eating meat, as appaled by what is going on behind the scenes, and I agree with just about everything you said, so thanks for bringing that up. That's the most important thing to do IMHO, because this stuff is usually out of direct sight, and easily dismissed. Think about it: it's considered impolite to tell someone what they're eating, while they're eating it -- and not because it actually is, but because we navigated ourselves into a big stupid mess. And yes, we are responsible. And most of us actually do love those animals lots when we encounter them alive, we might kill and eat them, but we wouldn't torture them like that, so that can't be healthy psychologically either. I know this is a bit over the top, but imagine your neighbour (whom you like) being beaten, and when that happens, you just turn up the music and kinda drown it out. It's schizophrenic, for the lack of a better word. And I wouldn't want us to get rid of our empathy, so we should act on it. The current situation is completely untenable.


^ I love how that could be applied to a lot of other things, too. Consumerism + alienation = no wait, let's not do that.

I agree totally! It's a horror right under our noses, and we support it every time we buy some of those huge chicken breasts in the meat department.

Not to mention that meat, milk and eggs are pumped chock full of growth hormones. And we wonder why our 9 year old girls are wearing bras and starting their periods.

 

[Skwim]

I agree totally! It's a horror right under our noses, and we support it every time we buy some of those huge chicken breasts in the meat department.

Not to mention that meat, milk and eggs are pumped chock full of growth hormones. And we wonder why our 9 year old girls are wearing bras and starting their periods.

This seemed so out of kilter it led me to look into the issue, and you're right. It appears that animal growth hormones may indeed have something to do with an earlier average age of the onset of puberty in girls. However, it's not quite as young as it may seem. After looking at several sources, which are in agreement (probably all used the same studies) the average age of menarche in the USA is 12.6 years for white girls, and 12.1 years for black girls. Here's an excerpt from one of the articles.

The average age of menarche among U.S. girls
declined steadily throughout the first half of the
20th century and continued to decline after that
but at rates that differ markedly among racial
and ethnic groups. Among U.S. white girls, the
average menarchal age has declined slightly
over the past four decades and now [2007] stands at
12.6 years. Among U.S black girls, average
menarchal age is 12.1 years and the ongoing
rate of decline is swifter. This is also true
among Mexican American girls.
source (pdf)

​

Here are two graphs from the same paper.

 

[Kathryn]

Interesting. I knew that the average age has declined. Need to point out that I didn't say the average age was 9 - but more and more 9 and 10 year old girls are hitting puberty, and I have many friends whose young girls are already wearing bras by age 9 or 10 too - more than when I was growing up. I do think it has something to do with hormones in meat and eggs and milk. There could be other reasons, I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Regardless of the effect on our own health, the suffering of the animals really tears at my heart.

 

[Skwim]

Interesting. I knew that the average age has declined. Need to point out that I didn't say the average age was 9 - but more and more 9 and 10 year old girls are hitting puberty, and I have many friends whose young girls are already wearing bras by age 9 or 10 too - more than when I was growing up.

Oh, I realized that. With an average age of 12.6 years I have no doubt that there are a number of young girls hitting puberty at 9 or 10, and with more and more joining the group all the time.

Boy that's young! Thats only 4th or 5th grade for crying out loud !!!!

 

[Kathryn]

We just came back from an all natural farm where the cows, turkeys, chickens, and hogs are fed naturally, pasture/range raised and fed, and slaughtered humanely. Believe it or not, I didn't even know that bacon is made from pork belly till today! We bought some and I'm starting the curing process today. Should be ready in about five days.

The farm was really cool. All the animals looked GREAT and they were obviously contented. Like I said, I believe it's OK to eat meat - it's just not OK to mistreat animals from birth till you slaughter them just to grow them bigger and faster and for mass consumption.

 

[Madhuri]

That's great Kathryn!

I personally think that unless its absolutely necessary, we shouldn't harm animals at all.

 

[Kathryn]

That's great Kathryn!

I personally think that unless its absolutely necessary, we shouldn't harm animals at all.

I believe in humane treatment of animals. I am not convinced that a vegan lifestyle devoid of animal products is healthy for the long haul. If my research bore that out, I would change my lifestyle and not eat any meat at all.

 

[Madhuri]

I believe in humane treatment of animals. I am not convinced that a vegan lifestyle devoid of animal products is healthy for the long haul. If my research bore that out, I would change my lifestyle and not eat any meat at all.

Well I'm not vegan, I'm vegetarian. But I wonder if the health level is individualistic. Some people become sick without meat and others are their healthiest on a vegan diet. There are actually quite a few people who spend most of their lives on a vegan diet and feel fantastic both physically and mentally. There are even vegan body builders.

 

[Kathryn]

Well I'm not vegan, I'm vegetarian. But I wonder if the health level is individualistic. Some people become sick without meat and others are their healthiest on a vegan diet. There are actually quite a few people who spend most of their lives on a vegan diet and feel fantastic both physically and mentally. There are even vegan body builders.

Oh, I know - it makes sense that everyone's bodies are different and have varying needs.

I am not a big meat eater, especially not when it comes to beef or pork. I often go days on end with no meat, and I prefer fish, seafood, or chicken hands down when I do eat meat.

My husband is a carnivore but he has been successful in cutting down on his meat consumption over the past few months as well. Still, when he's home, I tend to eat more meat because I'm cooking for him, and I enjoy providing a meal for him that makes him smile. When he's gone (which is half the time) I often go a week at a time, or even longer, without eating a bit of meat. However, I do eat milk products on a daily basis, and eat eggs about twice a week, and like I said, I feel fantastic.

I just ordered a juicer and am about to start doing juice fasts at least three days a month - will try to go ten days to get past the first three rough days later this month. I'll let you know how that works out.

I think the idea of juice fasts for cleansing at least three days out of each month is probably a fantastic idea. I'd like to do it for a week out of each month - hope I can do that.

 

[Madhuri]

Oh nice! Let me know how it goes Kathryn

 

[SageTree]

I hunted and butchered my own meats with my family until I was 20.
Then I stopped when I moved.
Several months later I began my end to eating meat.

I've been vegetarian for the last 10 years now.

I get my milk/eggs from good sources.

I don't wear leather.

While I'm happy with my life style choice, the only thing I 'push' on people is being thankful for all the lives, human, plant and animal, that gets their food to their plate.

I have a couple of friends starting to butcher on their own, and I'm interested to see what happens.
Bring that awareness to your life can be a 'slippery slope' to eating less and less meat overtime, because I think once you do it and realize that you can't, which many can't, something in you changes.

Putting a gun to an animals head, slitting a throat or twisting/chopping a neck isn't as easy as one might think.

Life feeds on death.... be thankful for the lives, blood, sweat and tears that feeds your life.

 

[Kathryn]

Nature is red of tooth and claw.

 

[Kathryn]

We visited an organic farm and ranch yesterday. Natural farming makes so much sense, but it's also hard work. I hope to be able to help support this family, by buying their products (which ARE more expensive however), and possibly donating some time on their farm.

 

[BlackBear94]

I remember seeing that meat is murder video, I tried to make everyone i knew stop eating meat. Which of course didn't happen. So now i just make everyone in my family eat like 33% less meat. It's realistic but still effective.

 

[Kathryn]

I totally believe we eat too much meat. In fact, I am a fan of the Paleo Diet (aka the Dinosaur diet).

I believe that if we look at nature, and look at how much effort it would actually take us to grow, catch, grind, prepare, store, slaughter, clean, etc our foods, we can find a pretty good balance of what it is we're actually supposed to be eating.

 

[Me Myself]

I believe in humane treatment of animals. I am not convinced that a vegan lifestyle devoid of animal products is healthy for the long haul. If my research bore that out, I would change my lifestyle and not eat any meat at all.

According to the American Dietary Association a WELL PLANNED vegetarian or VEGAN diet can be healthy to any person in any stage of development.


I turned vegetarian almost 2 years ago (a little more than year and a half for now). I see this as what I can do. I know it is not too much. The milk I drink was still most probably extracted from cows who never left a cubicle in their lifes and were killed off when their legs didn´t have sthe strength to stand any more. Turned to meat.

But at least is something. I think we should all eat less meat, it´s a start. Animals don´t need to be killed in this way for us to be healthy. If they don´t need to be killed for our susteneance, then why do it just for flavor?

So I think that vegetarianism is a start, or at LEAST eating less meat.

Protests would probably be good too, though I know too little about it.

I understand that laws exist about animal treatment, but that violating them doesn´t even have a punishment? Not sure about the legal issues.

I just try to make it simple and not eat dead animals >_>

 

[Jainarayan]

Not to mention that meat, milk and eggs are pumped chock full of growth hormones. And we wonder why our 9 year old girls are wearing bras and starting their periods.

Growth hormone(s) have nothing to do with that. This is a "Chicken Little, Henny Penny, The Sky Is Falling" meme. Growth hormones are peptide hormones digested in the stomach. Peptide hormones are proteins. Insulin is a peptide hormone; that's why it has to be injected. Taking it orally would digest it like any other protein. Whatever growth hormones are given to mammals or poultry will not survive the stomach. They have no effect on humans.

edit: Additionally, anabolic hormones given to beef cattle make no sense. Beef cattle are castrated males. Why give testosterone when the source of testosterone has been removed? Anabolic steroids given to dairy cows will masculinize them and stop milk production. Moreover, anabolic steroids also do not survive "first pass" in the human digestive system. What could make its way into our systems is antibiotics given to the animals.

 

[Kathryn]

Growth hormone(s) have nothing to do with that. This is a "Chicken Little, Henny Penny, The Sky Is Falling" meme. Growth hormones are peptide hormones digested in the stomach. Peptide hormones are proteins. Insulin is a peptide hormone; that's why it has to be injected. Taking it orally would digest it like any other protein. Whatever growth hormones are given to mammals or poultry will not survive the stomach. They have no effect on humans.

edit: Additionally, anabolic hormones given to beef cattle make no sense. Beef cattle are castrated males. Why give testosterone when the source of testosterone has been removed? Anabolic steroids given to dairy cows will masculinize them and stop milk production. Moreover, anabolic steroids also do not survive "first pass" in the human digestive system. What could make its way into our systems is antibiotics given to the animals.

I may be wrong about the hormones - I've read a lot of articles, both for and against this hypothesis, from a wide variety of sources, some credible and some not so.

ADDITIVES to the processing of animals and meat cannot be good for us if they make it into our systems, and I believe that usually these additives (injections of vitamins, hormones, antibiotics, etc) are NOT given to the animals to make them healthier, but simply to make them more productive in a shorter amount of time - the most boom for the buck in other words. Cruel to the animals which is the main point of my rant on this thread. It's cruel to pump an animal full of "nutrients" and medicine and hormones simply to get them as productive or big as possible in the shortest amount of time, meanwhile denying them the simple natural pleasures of animal life.

Any sources that could explain why our kids are entering puberty sooner? I'm curious about this phenomenon.