Donald Trump is digging his own grave

[Jose Fly]

If it’s not about Biden being a political opponent. Why was trump so concerned about Biden's "corruption" in Ukraine why didn't he ask Ukraine about it 2017? Or 2018? Or April 2019 when he first spoke to Ukraine President? Why wait until July 2019? Simple Joe Biden only got in race in April 2019

In order for this new defense to work you have to believe two things. One, that Trump is truly the Captain America of fighting corruption. (Stop laughing.) And second, that when Trump asked the Ukrainian president in the heat of the election cycle to investigate his top political rival, it had “NOTHING” to do with the 2020 election. (Okay, start laughing.)

Or why are the Bidens the only alleged corruption in the world that Trump is concerned about? Team Trump would have you believe it's just a coincidence that the singular case of corruption in the world he's focused on just happens to involve his political rival.

 

[Jose Fly]

Waat..? Trump never admitted to extortion by holding U.S. military aid, in fact he said he didn't do that.

...You should get your news from more credible sources.

He also never said he "pressured Zelensky to help him win the 2020 election". That's two fabrications in one post.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Trump can't be guilty because he said he didn't do it? Good grief......

 

[Jose Fly]

How exactly is this per the Constitution?

And here's yet another fantastically stupid argument....apparently if it isn't in the Constitution it can't be illegal.

Can you imagine team Trump people as defense lawyers? "My client can't be guilty since he said he didn't do it, and besides, the crime he's alleged to have committed isn't in the US Constitution, so it can't be a crime in the first place!"

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Jose Fly]

Shokin may have been fired under false pretense. A false narrative of Shokin's ineptitude as a legal prosecutor or Shokin's being a corrupt prosecutor could be false cover-stories hiding the real reason he was fired, which could be he was actually fired in order to end Shokin's probe into why Joe Biden's son received a high paying lucrative job at a Ukrainian energy production company when Hunter Biden had zero prior work experience in the energy production field.

So now the whole EU and IMF were in on it too. The conspiracy grows! How long before we start hearing about how George Soros was behind it all?

There is documentation showing the dissemination of misinformation about Shokin by U.S. representatives and public figures:

Ukraine PGO Memo Translation

Former Ukraine Inspector General Viktor Shokin testified he was notified that he was fired in March 2016 because former Vice President Joe Biden was upset about his investigation of the natural gas company that paid his son $50,000 a month.

"The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors," Shokin testified while citing a sworn affidavit submitted to a European court.

There have been false media reports that by the time of Biden's intervention, the Burisma probe had been dormant.

However, Shokin claims at that time of his firing he was investigating Mykola Zlochevsky, the former minister of ecology and natural resources of Ukraine — also the founder of Burisma where Hunter Biden was appointed to the board of the firm, which Shokin claimed was an appointment made by Zlochevsky “in order to protect himself.”

And there we have it....a guy who the western world saw as very corrupt and ousted because of it asserts it was all a devious plot. Of course he offers no evidence of such, but as we've seen with team Trump, say-so is sufficient!

Glad we settled that.....

 

[Bear Wild]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Trump can't be guilty because he said he didn't do it? Good grief......

The republicans that support him followed his example. My new favorite quote is Rubio who claimed Trump stated that china should investigate Biden was not a real request but just did it to get the press excited and he played to press like a fiddle. This implies we can never know when Trump is telling the truth or bating the press. This is amazing, incredible, totally amazing, could not be a better incredible technique. Simply amazing. With this attitude Trump can say anything and then later recant his statements as a joke or testing the press or anything to say claim what he said was not what he believed. Very convenient but not believable.

 

[Jose Fly]

The republicans that support him followed his example. My new favorite quote is Rubio who claimed Trump stated that china should investigate Biden was not a real request but just did it to get the press excited and he played to press like a fiddle. This implies we can never know when Trump is telling the truth or bating the press. This is amazing, incredible, totally amazing, could not be a better incredible technique. Simply amazing. With this attitude Trump can say anything and then later recant his statements as a joke or testing the press or anything to say claim what he said was not what he believed. Very convenient but not believable.

Yup. And remember, Corey Lewandowski (Trump's campaign chair) testified to Congress that as far as he's concerned, he's under no obligation to be honest when talking to the media. And did Trump chastise him for saying that? Did he fire him? Nope.

Incredible, especially given how the most loyal supporters of team Trump are evangelical Christians. But I guess I can't be surprised, since they sold out their morals for political gain a while ago.

 

[Bear Wild]

Yup. And remember, Corey Lewandowski (Trump's campaign chair) testified to Congress that as far as he's concerned, he's under no obligation to be honest when talking to the media. And did Trump chastise him for saying that? Did he fire him? Nope.

Incredible, especially given how the most loyal supporters of team Trump are evangelical Christians. But I guess I can't be surprised, since they sold out their morals for political gain a while ago.

There is a excellent book "Religious Affects" by Donovan Schaefer that looks at how this could happen by feeding into the affective neuropathways particularly those associated with emotion to override the cognitive what we call the rational aspect of the brain. Thus it becomes acceptable to hate certain others who are different. Trump plays of this fear and hate to secure his support.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's why I'm rapidly losing interest in arguing over this. It seems the Trump defenders are now down to the True Believers...the 24% who won't support impeachment no matter what...and their flat-earth level arguments.

I mean, when you have people saying there's no connection at all between "We want to buy missiles" and "I need a favor though", or "there's nothing wrong with leveraging military aid against an ally in order to get them to help you with your political campaign".....you know you're just arguing with people who aren't thinking rationally.....or thinking at all.

One needs to remember that those debating on the internet are often those at the extremes. When it comes to politics polls help keep one down to Earth. And polls indicate that Trump should be worried. It used to be that a majority of people opposed even the idea of impeachment. Now a plurality, not yet quite a majority, are in favor of not just impeachment, but also of conviction and removal from office. So keep your hopes up. Americans are not as dumb as many people think that they are.

 

[idav]

Of course this is all assuming that the information is going to be used to influence an election, which has not occured, as Joe Biden is not even the DNC candidate.

Presidents have limitations on how they can deal with foriegn governments to avoid corruption and foreign meddling . The founders were very clear in this. Trump always rides the tight rope on law and it shouldn't be surprising that he crosses the line with his methodology. Of course Trump's attorneys would choose to throw every crime out of court if they could but doesn't make there counter arguments valid.

 

[Jollybear]

That's why I'm rapidly losing interest in arguing over this. It seems the Trump defenders are now down to the True Believers...the 24% who won't support impeachment no matter what...and their flat-earth level arguments.

I mean, when you have people saying there's no connection at all between "We want to buy missiles" and "I need a favor though", or "there's nothing wrong with leveraging military aid against an ally in order to get them to help you with your political campaign".....you know you're just arguing with people who aren't thinking rationally.....or thinking at all.

Your not thinking rationally, the ukraine president could have easily said he was pressured and bang, trump would be gone.

And to compare it to flat earthism is double irrational. And its a smear.

 

[Cooky]

Your not thinking rationally, the ukraine president could have easily said he was pressured and bang, trump would be gone.

And to compare it to flat earthism is double irrational. And its a smear.

Just wait until Trump remains in office, after the impeachment "process" how nasty the rhetoric will become then. Like pit-bulls, these anti-Trumpers are ready to fight to the death -I can't wait to watch them foaming at the mouth.

Better yet, would be for Trump to win a second term -that might actually cause tears...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your not thinking rationally, the ukraine president could have easily said he was pressured and bang, trump would be gone.

And to compare it to flat earthism is double irrational. And its a smear.

Perhaps he does not see it that way. If he was honest and told what happened and Trump pulled through somehow his position would be much worse. He can't afford to get the U.S. mad at him so he has wisely opted to stay out of this as much as possible.

 

[Jollybear]

And your willing to ignore those flaws even if those flaws are becoming a national disgrace for sexually harassing multiple women and paying settlements totaling in 32 million.

Yes, im willing to ignore even looking into that red herring because its a waste of my time. I dont care. His point that trump believed biden, plus obama PLUS hillery wer corrupt BEFORE biden became president is astablished. Im not debating bills character, only trumps here. And i shall remain razor focused. Furthermore, you could astablish bill was seen sacrificing his son to a demon, i would not care because its totally IRRELEVANT TO THE POINT HE ASTABLISHED.

If trump believed Biden was corrupt and If Trump was truly so deeply concerned with Biden’s role in firing a Ukrainian prosecutor, which took place in March 2016, why didn’t Trump ask the Ukrainians about it in 2017 in his first year as president? Why didn’t Trump raise it in 2018 when his administration gave the Ukrainian government $200 million in military aid? Or at least raise it in April 2019 when he first spoke to Zelensky after he won his election?

I told you my answer. Trump didnt trust the former president of ukraine.

Let’s not forget trump has his own issues with corruption. As well as the Ukrainian government found no wrongdoing by the Bidens as I proved multiple times on this thread.

Ummmm......NO! You have not proven not ONCE, let alone multiple times that biden is innocent. And you havent proven trump did something corrupt either. How about this, if you think you proved all these things, bring your case to the government democrats, im sure theyed LOVE to have that proof.

No, Bill just denied. That is all that he can do. He is an idiot after all.

Still gonna argue like an "idiot" huh? Ok, suit yourself. Your only shooting yourself in the foot arguing that way. But hey, makes my job easyer, lol, i dont even have to aim and fire.

But he made no point. Once again he only had denial. And dishonest denial at that. Quote how he supposedly refuted the claims of Trump breaking a law. I bet that you confirm that he is an idiot instead.

Your a bloody waste of my time. But ill break it down anyway. Bill in the video just came out with his new book on trumps america. In the book he documented a interview he had with trump where trump said he believed biden, obama and hillery wer corrupt. This book was made all before this impeachment thing over Ukraine went on.

What points? All you have at this time are PRATT'S.

Stop projecting unto me all you have. Your the real one that has only pratts.

Wrong again. You presented Bill O Reilly, a moron that thinks tides cannot be understood, as if he was any sort of expert in the field.

I think thats what you are. You certainly argue like one. But, keep doing it, makes you look bad, not me.

And you forgot, Trump is a liar. Biden is not corrupt.

I didnt "forget" anything. You have not astablished any of your preaching assertions.

He was going after his son who does not appear to be corrupt either.

Oh but he does appear to be corrupt. Bill myer (a leftist) even agrees it "looks bad".

You have not been following this discussion because you would have known that the Ukrainian that he helped to oust from office was internationally thought to be corrupt. He has his own story of course but no one takes it seriously. Well except for a few people that will believe anything.

Ya keep telling yourself that.

Again Trump is a liar. And another moron. If he thought that Biden was corrupt he should have had him investigated properly. He did not do so. He broke the law instead. By the way, if you read this whole statement it is not an ad hominem either since it explains why we know that Trump is a liar and an idiot.

All your doing is preaching your narative, your not astablishing or even rationally debating anything. But, hey, keep jumping over that cliff. As the saying goes "when your enemy hurts themselves, dont stop them."

No, it is not a distraction. It is not an ad hominem. It is a fact. And the problem is that Bill O Reilly is the bottom of the barrel. He has a long history of lying and idiocy and cannot be properly used as a reliable source. There are times that a person can ruin his own credibility. Like O'Reilly did. There are ways to earn that credibility back, but until that person does so he is of no use as a reference. You should be able to understand this. Until Bill atones for his past wrongs he is forever stuck in the position of being a liar and and idiot and of no use whatsoever in a debate.

Try again.

From my history of debating with you, yiu have a long history of terrible debate skills.

Keep it up though. Your GREAT at being terrible.

 

[Jollybear]

Just wait until Trump remains in office, after the impeachment "process" how nasty the rhetoric will become then. Like pit-bulls, these anti-Trumpers are ready to fight to the death -I can't wait to watch them foaming at the mouth.

Better yet, would be for Trump to win a second term -that might actually cause tears...

My prediction is that trump wont be impeached and he will be re elected and if that happens im gonna come on here and rub it in the leftists faces.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Still gonna argue like an "idiot" huh? Ok, suit yourself. Your only shooting yourself in the foot arguing that way. But hey, makes my job easyer, lol, i dont even have to aim and fire.

Now let's be honest. I can support my claims. That is no "arguing like an idiot". You should be very very careful of that phrase since it appear to apply to you more than anyone else here.

Your a bloody waste of my time. But ill break it down anyway. Bill in the video just came out with his new book on trumps america. In the book he documented a interview he had with trump where trump said he believed biden, obama and hillery wer corrupt. This book was made all before this impeachment thing over Ukraine went on.

Wait a second are you now trying to claim that this interview is a red herring? And you forgot that it does not matter what Trump believes. He can believe that Biden is a reptoid. He still has to go about proving that legally. He broke the law when it came to the asking the president of another country to investigate a political rival. There are laws against that because it is the sort of action that can and is done for improper reasons. If he wanted to investigate Biden he had to do it legally through our agencies. You and I both know that he did this because of the upcoming election.

Stop projecting unto me all you have. Your the real one that has only pratts.

And now you openly lie. I can and have supported my claims. You use failed sources. Try again.

I think thats what you are. You certainly argue like one. But, keep doing it, makes you look bad, not me.

Now now, you are guilty of projecting again. I have to remind you yet again that I can support my claims with valid sources. You . . . not so much.

I didnt "forget" anything. You have not astablished any of your preaching assertions.

Wait, you know that Trump is a liar and yet you support him? Wow, that beggars belief!

Oh but he does appear to be corrupt. Bill myer (a leftist) even agrees it "looks bad".

But not upon investigation. You are always taking the shallow approach. You do not look into actual claims. You use sources that are not reliable only because they appeal to your personal prejudices.

All your doing is preaching your narative, your not astablishing or even rationally debating anything. But, hey, keep jumping over that cliff. As the saying goes "when your enemy hurts themselves, dont stop them."

My posts reflect your poor sources. Try making a valid point if you want more effort out of your opposition. When you use a self refuting source all that one has to point out is is how bad that source was. In other words do your homework for once.

From my history of debating with you, yiu have a long history of terrible debate skills.

Oh my!! Now that is funny. You never did learn what is and what is not evidence in our debates and you like all creationists were too afraid to learn. That all but guaranteed that you would lose.

Keep it up though. Your GREAT at being terrible.

And once again openly telling falsehoods.

Here is a suggestion. Try to make a point using a valid source. Don't use a disgraced right wing wacko. No one on the opposition takes Bill seriously and very few on the right even take him seriously these days. When someone that claims to be a journalist has shown himself to be dishonest one can make amends. but one must admit to one's faults first. O'Reilly never did that. You ruin your own argument by relying upon him.

 

[Cooky]

My prediction is that trump wont be impeached and he will be re elected and if that happens im gonna come on here and rub it in the leftists faces.

Me too.

 

[Salvador]

My prediction is that trump wont be impeached and he will be re elected and if that happens im gonna come on here and rub it in the leftists faces.

Me too.

Me three.

 

[Jollybear]

Now let's be honest. I can support my claims. That is no "arguing like an idiot". You should be very very careful of that phrase since it appear to apply to you more than anyone else here.



Wait a second are you now trying to claim that this interview is a red herring? And you forgot that it does not matter what Trump believes. He can believe that Biden is a reptoid. He still has to go about proving that legally. He broke the law when it came to the asking the president of another country to investigate a political rival. There are laws against that because it is the sort of action that can and is done for improper reasons. If he wanted to investigate Biden he had to do it legally through our agencies. You and I both know that he did this because of the upcoming election.



And now you openly lie. I can and have supported my claims. You use failed sources. Try again.



Now now, you are guilty of projecting again. I have to remind you yet again that I can support my claims with valid sources. You . . . not so much.



Wait, you know that Trump is a liar and yet you support him? Wow, that beggars belief!


But not upon investigation. You are always taking the shallow approach. You do not look into actual claims. You use sources that are not reliable only because they appeal to your personal prejudices.



My posts reflect your poor sources. Try making a valid point if you want more effort out of your opposition. When you use a self refuting source all that one has to point out is is how bad that source was. In other words do your homework for once.



Oh my!! Now that is funny. You never did learn what is and what is not evidence in our debates and you like all creationists were too afraid to learn. That all but guaranteed that you would lose.



And once again openly telling falsehoods.

Here is a suggestion. Try to make a point using a valid source. Don't use a disgraced right wing wacko. No one on the opposition takes Bill seriously and very few on the right even take him seriously these days. When someone that claims to be a journalist has shown himself to be dishonest one can make amends. but one must admit to one's faults first. O'Reilly never did that. You ruin your own argument by relying upon him.

And biden isnt the reptoid, the reptoid is INSIDE biden. Lets get it right now. Lol

 

[Subduction Zone]

And biden isnt the reptoid, the reptoid is INSIDE biden. Lets get it right now. Lol

So you lack a sense of humor and the ability to reason rationally. That is a bad combination. You do not seem to understand that the claims of Biden's corruption have been shown to be false, at least in regards to the Ukraine. Trump broke election laws. He abused his power.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

My prediction is that trump wont be impeached and he will be re elected and if that happens im gonna come on here and rub it in the leftists faces.

Me too.

Me three.

And that's how it works. Once people have chosen their gods, they must make themselves faithful whatever happens. Trump has said he could should somebody on Fifth Avenue and his base would support him, and he's probably right. Whatever he does, however idiotic his behaviours, the base will double down and double down again.

In my view, this says nothing at all about Trump, and everything about those who believe in him.