Donald Trump is digging his own grave

[Ouroboros]

Well keep in mind that in right-wing media, the current narrative is that this whistleblower complaint is part of a CIA coup.

Yup. Currently, our own people in the intelligence business is pitted against foreign agencies. So we're to believe that China's communist driven intelligence service somehow will be less biased investigating our election candidates? Oh...kay....

 

[Cooky]

The law says he's not supposed to ask for it. Or take it. Or use it.

How'd you come to that conclusion?

 

[SkepticThinker]

How'd you come to that conclusion?

Have you not been following along the thread??
There are numerous links that have been posted explaining this.

 

[Ouroboros]

Some thoughts I had about involving China in investigating Biden.

First of all, because of the trade war and problems making a deal with Trump, China most likely rather get someone else in charge.

Secondly, who would they want? A right winger or a communist in place? They probably rather have someone as far to the left as possible, to increase the chances of better cooperation.

Lastly, Trump's own family has business in China, Ivanka and Jared Kushner have some suspicious business there, and if China would want to get to Trump, they could expose (or fabricate) corruption there.

In other words, involving China might be the dumbest decision Trump has ever made.

 

[Bear Wild]

We just can't make that connection. Besides, Trump is still waiting to receive the investigative reports from Ukraine.

...When he gets it, we'll see what he does.

He already has made false and derogatory statements about individuals, groups of people and what others he does not like have said. Yes there is more to learn in this current investigation but there is far more than what they have focused on that is improper.

 

[Cooky]

Have you not been following along the thread??
There are numerous links that have been posted explaining this.

I've already disputed them. This one in particular fails right away at line 3:
"Any citizen of the United States,
wherever he may be, who,
without authority of the United States...."

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

...The other links I saw were opinion articles.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I've already disputed them. This one in particular fails right away at line 3:
"Any citizen of the United States,
wherever he may be, who,
without authority of the United States...."

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

...The other links I saw were opinion articles.

Well, I guess I can't make you see what you want to ignore.

 

[Cooky]

He already has made false and derogatory statements about individuals, groups of people and what others he does not like have said. Yes there is more to learn in this current investigation but there is far more than what they have focused on that is improper.

But those other things he's said about individuals and groups were all legal.

 

[Jollybear]

What is wrong is asking another country to investigate a US citizen.

Its not wrong for trump to ask Ukraine to investigate a USA citizen WHEN said citizen did his potential crime IN UKRAINE and NOT having done it in his native country. Whats wrong is if trump just barges into ukraine and investigates it himself. He has to ask. If the potential corruption was done in the USA, then of course you dont need another country to investigate it.

And, to add to that, to do so against a potential political opponent.

Again, its not about him being a political opponent, its about potential corruption. To prove a crime, you need to prove a wrong intent and you dont have that.

Really, if this isn't an abuse of power, what is?

What is? Ill tell you what the real abuse of power is, its the lying, evil, hypocritical, sick, communist democrats that are abusing there power. They need to be wiped off the face of the earth for the scumbags they are.

 

[Cooky]

Well, I guess I can't make you see what you want to ignore.

So that was the only link you guys had..? That gets you nowhere!

 

[Subduction Zone]

The law says he's not supposed to ask for it. Or take it. Or use it.

I do not think he will allow himself to understand this.

 

[Polymath257]

What is? Ill tell you what the real abuse of power is, its the lying, evil, hypocritical, sick, communist democrats that are abusing there power. They need to be wiped off the face of the earth for the scumbags they are.

Trump has been a stain on our country for the last three years. He has consistently flaunted Congressional oversight.

Now that Congress is doing its Constitutional job of checking his exertions of power, you claim *they* are the ones abusing power??? If anything, they should have brought these proceedings a year ago.

BTW, being a Democrat does NOT make one evil, hypocritical, sick or a communist. It simply means that there is a *political* disagreement. From *my* view, it is the Republicans that are consistently on the wrong side. But again, that is a political disagreement.

One of the BIG problems this country faces is that neither the left nor the right seems to be able to acknowledge that the other side is composed of good people who simply disagree.

 

[Polymath257]

Its not wrong for trump to ask Ukraine to investigate a USA citizen WHEN said citizen did his potential crime IN UKRAINE and NOT having done it in his native country.

Yes, actually, it is. The job of the president is, in part, to protect US citizens from unfair prosecution in other countries. it is most certainly NOT to ask for the other countries to start criminal investigations into OUR citizens.

Once again, it Obama had asked Russia to investigate Trump for his shenanigans in Russia, the Republicans would have demanded his head.

 

[Shad]

Trump admits he asked Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden, and asks China to do the same. Like Nixon telling America "I ordered the break in.

Trump says Biden and people like Biden are probably why China has had trade advantages over the US. Also he slams politicians who have their sons profiting off their offices, so sad for Donald trump Jr.

Asked about the recall of the US ambassador to Ukraine, Trump says, "I don't know if I recalled her or somebody recalled her."

Does trump not know that this is illegal or is it that he just didn't care knowing the Republicans will back him?

Trump can request investigations into Hunter Biden and his dealings.

 

[Jose Fly]

Yup. Currently, our own people in the intelligence business is pitted against foreign agencies. So we're to believe that China's communist driven intelligence service somehow will be less biased investigating our election candidates? Oh...kay....

That's a good point. The essence of Trump's WH lawn statements yesterday is that the Chinese and Ukrainian intelligence communities are more capable and trustworthy than our own.

Again, I never thought I'd see the day when Republicans would do something like that.

 

[Jose Fly]

I do not think he will allow himself to understand this.

A lot like trying to debate creationists, isn't it?

And much like creationists, they don't seem to be at all bothered by the fact that one talking point after another turns out to be completely false. Just like creationists, they simply gallop over to the next one, and it never occurs to them to stop for a second and question why their leaders keep sending them out with such bad talking points.

 

[Cooky]

A lot like trying to debate creationists, isn't it?

And much like creationists, they don't seem to be at all bothered by the fact that one talking point after another turns out to be completely false. Just like creationists, they simply gallop over to the next one, and it never occurs to them to stop for a second and question why their leaders keep sending them out with such bad talking points.

Hey, if you're so sure about it, then by all means, PLEASE provide your evidence..!

 

[Prometheus85]

It's amazing how you refer to Kyle Kulinski, one of the co-founders of the Justice Democrats, as "right wing". Do you know who the Justice Democrats are?

It's amazing how you refer to Kyle Kulinski, one of the co-founders of the Justice Democrats, as "right wing". Do you know who the Justice Democrats are?

Huh?

 

[Prometheus85]

Trump can request investigations into Hunter Biden and his dealings.

Come on now we all know Donald Trump would not care one whit about Hunter Biden if he wasn’t determined to smear Hunter’s father. The idea Trump cares about corruption of this sort is laughable.


Trump explicitly named *Joe* Biden on his call with Zelensky, directly pressing him to look into *Joe* Biden's role in stopping a (fictional) investigation of his son.

 

[Prometheus85]

I never heard Trump admit that he was planning on using the information to incriminate Biden prior to the next election as a candidate.

...I never heard anyone admit to that.

Really? Asking for help from a foriegn leader for personal gain as a sitting president is an abuse of power. Uhm apparently critical thinking is not one of your skills.