Double-blind Prayer Efficacy Test -- Really?

[Sheldon]

So with strict rules, would be ok with Catholicism?

What about their appalling and criminal global efforts to help paedophile priests to evade justice and carry on abusing children in their care, and the church's refusal to properly cooperate with criminal investigations that would help jail the guilty and compensate the victims? You have ignored these facts, and are now conjuring "new rules", what does this even mean? How will it compensate the tens of thousands of people who lives were ruined by being abused as children, and how will it help bring those guilty to justice?

What would you say if you found many gays abuse boys? Would you ban gays?

They're not gay, they're paedophiles, do you think paedophiles who abused a sex different to their own, invites condemnation of straight people?

 

[Sheldon]

Gays like boys too. If you were gay then being in the Catholic Church was a way to gain access to them.
So who is more at fault - gay culture of the Roman Catholic Church? Funny how we say 'pedophile priest' and not 'gay priest.'

Being gay and being a paedophile are entirely different, again when a paedophile abuses the opposite sex, do you think this tells us something about all straight people?

Falsely conflating gay people with paedophiles is just more religious homophobic bigotry and hate speech.

 

[Sheldon]

If I may, an interestin story that makes a point - a soldier told me his fellow soldiers saw two men committing sodomy. They pulled up their army truck, beat up the men and took them into a local police station (back in the 1960's I think) Now if you are gay and want to committ gay-type-things then the army is not the best place for you, nor the police - you go into a caring institution such as a church, orphanage, mental health home, scouts etc..But homosexuals targeting your institution doesn't necessarily mean the institution is corrupt.

What a spectacularly stupid claim. Rape is immoral as is paedophilia, the sex of the victim has zero relevance. Not that I'd believe another of your unevidenced anecdotes, you just spent page after page peddling the right wing propaganda lie that misrepresented a book as portraying child abuse, when it did no such thing, and when confronted with the facts you failed to even acknowledge your error at all, you just roll straight onto this made up straw man. Another transparent attempt to demonise gay people, without any evidence or justification.

The sexual orientation of rapists and paedophiles has no relevance to why we find such behaviours immoral, unless you think heterosexual paedophiles and rapists are a condemnation of all straight people? The vast majority of rape and paedophilllia is perpetrated by heterosexual men, obviously since heterosexual men outnumber gay men by something like 50 to 1, since the percentage of population who gay is usually around 2% to 2.5%.

This is just another utterly transparent attempt to demonise gay people, by peddling hate speech and homophobia.

Yet you have refused to remotely condemn the rape of literally tens of thousands of children by Catholic priests, or the Catholic church's complicity in the crimes, but protecting them from justice and repeatedly helping them go on abusing children in their care.

 

[Sheldon]

Agreed. I wasn't saying these particular soldiers were 'immoral' but the gays were - buggery was illegal at the time so they were breaking the law.

So abortion is perfectly moral then, since it is legal? So slavery was perfectly moral then, when it was legal? So abolitionists who broke the law and acted illegally and risked their lives to free slaves were being immoral then, as they broke the law?

Isn't it more moral to see that being gay harms no one, whereas behaviours like rape, and slavery clearly do?

 

[Sheldon]

As an aside, the term 'homophobe' is wholy a political contrivance,

Don't be absurd. Your posts offer all the evidence one would need for homophobia being prevalent among right wing religious extremists.

'Unborn baby murder' instead of 'abortion' or 'pro-choice'
'Castration' instead of 'puberty blockers'
'Sodomizers' and 'buggery' instead of 'gay'

You see the subtle shifts -

Nope, all I see is sophistry and many people use exactly these terms and notions on here, you included.

now it's 'recreational drugs' or 'drug prohibition' to associate the war on drugs with 1920's alcohol restrictions.

Your point?

In Australia you can't say ' handicapped' anymore, it's 'disability'
Soon you won't be able to say 'third world' which replaced 'poor country'

So what? You do know language is evolving and always has been, don't you? Have you noticed Latin is a dead language?

 

[Sheldon]

You might be correct,but it seems odd that a man in a religious order would want to sodomize or perform fellatio on a boy if he wasn't gay.
I know many gays who find the younger the man, the better.
Stands to reason - heretosexuals feel the same about the opposite sex.

I'm heterosexual, and I certainly don't feel that way, in fact I find your comments utterly repugnant. As I imagine would most people, gay or straight. I'd want nothing to do with anyone who expressed such views.

Though this might explain your reticence about the Catholic church's criminal behaviour in protecting paedophiles from justice, and helping them go on abusing children with impunity.

 

[PruePhillip]

I'm heterosexual, and I certainly don't feel that way, in fact I find your comments utterly repugnant. As I imagine would most people, gay or straight. I'd want nothing to do with anyone who expressed such views.

Though this might explain your reticence about the Catholic church's criminal behaviour in protecting paedophiles from justice, and helping them go on abusing children with impunity.

On Youtube there's something relevant - it's called 'How I exposed Jimmy Saville'
I could imagine a conversation goes like this
Catholic - I will never attend mass again. That church did NOTHING about the pedophiles in their church.
Friend - That reminds me of how the BBC coverd up Saville's abuse. If you aren't going to mass, what will you do on Sunday morning?
Catholic - Oh, there's some good Sunday am shows on the BBC.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You might be correct,but it seems odd that a man in a religious order would want to sodomize or perform fellatio on a boy if he wasn't gay.
I know many gays who find the younger the man, the better.
Stands to reason - heretosexuals feel the same about the opposite sex.

You jumped to an unwarranted conclusion. Very often sexual molestation is said to be more about power, just as rape is rather than sexual attraction. Is rape love? I hope that you said no. When one is engaged in an act where there is not mutual consent the normal rules of relationships do not apply.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm heterosexual, and I certainly don't feel that way, in fact I find your comments utterly repugnant. As I imagine would most people, gay or straight. I'd want nothing to do with anyone who expressed such views.

Though this might explain your reticence about the Catholic church's criminal behaviour in protecting paedophiles from justice, and helping them go on abusing children with impunity.

Same here. And one thing that I mentioned earlier, there have been studies with men at least, it might be more difficult with women, where they first asked people their sexuality and found out how violent they tended to be. Then they tested them for sexual arousals to various films. Men with very strong anti-gay opinions also tended to show signs of sexual arousal when they saw gay sex. Their conclusion was that for men their appeared to be a tie between latent homosexuality and homophobia. i wonder if the same applies towards women.

 

[Sheldon]

I could imagine a conversation goes like this

You need to stop these paranoid and biased imaginings and try dealing in something approaching facts for once.

Did you know that Jimmy Saville was granted a papal Knighthood? Incidentally why would you think I would defend the BBC's actions in failing to act on the accusations surrounding Saville? Though this is hardly comparable to the active complicity of the Catholic church in both covering up endemic child abuse, and protecting the paedophiles from justice, even helping them to continue to abuse children by moving them around, and not even bothering to warn parents or keep them away from children.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You need to stop these paranoid and biased imaginings and try dealing in something approaching facts for once.

Did you know that Jimmy Saville was granted a papal Knighthood? Incidentally why would you think I would defend the BBC's actions in failing to act on the accusations surrounding Saville? Though this is hardly comparable to the active complicity of the Catholic church in both covering up endemic child abuse, and protecting the paedophiles from justice, even helping them to continue to abuse children by moving them around, and not even bothering to warn parents or keep them away from children.

I had never heard of Jimmy Savile. About 500 possible victims. That is amazing. It appears that after all of this came out that his work was removed from the BBC, when a show that had a parody of him aired even that drew a strong reaction from the public. Almost all of his awards and honors were rescinded after the news came out. But it does appear that he still has his papal knighthood:

Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal - Wikipedia

 

[SkepticThinker]

'Widely lauded' is interesting.

Yeah, as in, it received good reviews from critics.

You could go to jail for this stuff two or three generations ago, earlier still it was the death penalty.

So what? Not so long ago I could have been jailed for showing my ankles in public, or expressing my opinion, as a woman. Going back further I would have been burned at the stake for heresy.
Going back even further I would have been banished for demonstrating that the earth rotates around the sun. What's your point here?

Are you advocating for book banning and the death penalty for authors of books you find distasteful?

We need more books like below....

How we killed grandma.
How I overcame the bigotry against heroin.
Why do my marriage choices lead to people calling me a 'Deadbeat Dad' ?
Petty theft isn't really stealing anymore at Cosco as it's only a felony
How we burned down a Walmart store to defend Black Lives Matter
How to fake your age to play in a casino.

Actually, I think these themes would fit in well with liberal schools. Gives kids bedrock values.

Well, you were wrong about the one book you did actually cite so .... yeah.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Gays like boys too. If you were gay then being in the Catholic Church was a way to gain access to them.
So who is more at fault - gay culture of the Roman Catholic Church? Funny how we say 'pedophile priest' and not 'gay priest.'

We say "pedophile" priest instead of "gay" priest because when we're talking about those who abuse children, we're talking about PEDOPHILES.

If I may, an interestin story that makes a point - a soldier told me his fellow soldiers saw two men committing sodomy. They pulled up their army truck, beat up the men and took them into a local police station (back in the 1960's I think) Now if you are gay and want to committ gay-type-things then the army is not the best place for you, nor the police - you go into a caring institution such as a church, orphanage, mental health home, scouts etc..But homosexuals targeting your institution doesn't necessarily mean the institution is corrupt.

What??

 

[SkepticThinker]

You might be correct,but it seems odd that a man in a religious order would want to sodomize or perform fellatio on a boy if he wasn't gay.
I know many gays who find the younger the man, the better.
Stands to reason - heretosexuals feel the same about the opposite sex.

What??

People who sexually abuse children are PEDOPHILES.
Please stop trying to equate "pedophile" with "gay."

 

[Sheldon]

What??

People who sexually abuse children are PEDOPHILES.
Please stop trying to equate "pedophile" with "gay."

This is a tired old canard religious homophobes use. using the absurd rationale that paedophiles split into straight and gay, perhaps @PruePhillip can explain why the actions of paedophiles labelled as gay imply something about gay men, but labelling the much larger group of paedophiles as straight, don't imply anything about straight men?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, as in, it received good reviews from critics.



So what? Not so long ago I could have been jailed for showing my ankles in public, or expressing my opinion, as a woman. Going back further I would have been burned at the stake for heresy.
Going back even further I would have been banished for demonstrating that the earth rotates around the sun. What's your point here?

Are you advocating for book banning and the death penalty for authors of books you find distasteful?


Well, you were wrong about the one book you did actually cite so .... yeah.

Hah! Women's equality now? Bring me a sammich!! <ducks>

 

[PruePhillip]

What??

People who sexually abuse children are PEDOPHILES.
Please stop trying to equate "pedophile" with "gay."

So how old can a boy be before he transits from 'child' to 'gay' ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So how old can a boy be before he transits from 'child' to 'gay' ?

That is a poorly asked question that illustrates a lack of understanding on your part. A child can be gay at any age.

Please rethink your question and ask it again.

 

[PruePhillip]

That is a poorly asked question that illustrates a lack of understanding on your part. A child can be gay at any age.

Please rethink your question and ask it again.

Ok, so how old can a 'gay' boy be before he can act out his 'gayness' ?
20?
15?
10?
5?
1?

And what age do we 'help' this boy with his 'gayness' ?

And if this boy is so 'gay' he thinks he's a 'girl' can we castrate him?
And can we remove the breasts off pubescent girls if they feel they like being a 'boy' ?
Do we need to teach these kids super-early in school in see the world through the lens of sex?
Do 'gay' boys have access to 'gay porn' ?

Interesting world we are just entering, isn't it?
Wonder who is going to have the next generation of children?

 

[PruePhillip]

What??

Re picking your institutions for sexual purposes.
If you fancy gays or kids or both you don't want to be in the army, or the police, or the Nazi SS or your local Proud Boys.
You join a church, a monastery, a school, an orphanage etc.. Rules are lax, people are gentler, kids or gays galore.