Double-blind Prayer Efficacy Test -- Really?

[Wildswanderer]

Really? So either everything is a delusion, or nothing is?
That's quite the false dichotomy you have there!

That's not what I said, so quit pretending and deflecting.
I suppose you have someway to experience reality that doesn't rely on your senses? You know the ones that can't be trusted?

 

[Kenny]

OK, so you confirm that when god ignores the prayers for children dying in agony from congenital conditions or cancer, it is because the responsibility is on us to cure them, not god.
How nice!

So why does god answer your prayers? Why isn't that responsibility on you?
Because of your repeated refusal to give examples of your prayers he granted, I can only assume that they were so trivial as to even embarrass you, given that he refuses to save suffering children).

Is there logic here?

Who said God won't answer those problems? Or is it that you won't pray for those issues?

"So why does god answer your prayers? Why isn't that responsibility on you?"

Who said it wasn't my responsibility also?

That is why we have people who God has delivered from all types of problems including cancer. Cancer, diabetes, tumors, and a bunch of other things.

But the question is, "Are you doing your part?" or are you letting people die in their difficulties?

If you don't believe in prayer, are you giving toward the hunger needs of this world? Are you giving to the poor? Are you giving to the efforts to eradicate cancer?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well that points right back at you also.

Yes it does. Hence the reason we are advocating applying skepticism and critical thought to claims being made.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That just makes me trust faith more. It's more solid ground, then man's theories.

You choose faith over self-correcting mechanisms using a tool that has provided us with all knowledge we currently possess about the universe? That doesn't make much sense.

"Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence."
-Matt Dillahunty

So faith is not a pathway to truth, because anything can be believed on faith. I'm going to stick with proven methods of investigation, analysis, critical thought and logic, because it's demonstrably more fruitful in discerning fact from fiction.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You choose faith over self-correcting mechanisms using a tool that has provided us with all knowledge we currently possess about the universe? That doesn't make much sense.

"Faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have evidence."
-Matt Dillahunty

So faith is not a pathway to truth, because anything can be believed on faith. I'm going to stick with proven methods of investigation, analysis, critical thought and logic, because it's demonstrably more fruitful in discerning fact from fiction.

Man's theories will continue to change forever. Only a higher authority can reveal the truth. Humankind is too corrupted to discover the truth on its own.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Is there logic here?

Who said God won't answer those problems? Or is it that you won't pray for those issues?

"So why does god answer your prayers? Why isn't that responsibility on you?"

Who said it wasn't my responsibility also?

That is why we have people who God has delivered from all types of problems including cancer. Cancer, diabetes, tumors, and a bunch of other things.

But the question is, "Are you doing your part?" or are you letting people die in their difficulties?

If you don't believe in prayer, are you giving toward the hunger needs of this world? Are you giving to the poor? Are you giving to the efforts to eradicate cancer?

But not the starving kids or the amputees. Just some cancer patients, some of the time. Like, at the rate of chance, basically.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Man's theories will continue to change forever.

While getting closer and closer to understanding reality. Look how far we've come in just 100 years.

Only a higher authority can reveal the truth.

A higher authority that nobody can demonstrate the existence of? Nah.

Humankind is too corrupted to discover the truth on its own.

We've done a pretty good job so far.

 

[F1fan]

God doesn't force himself on anyone as far as I can tell. He could, but that wouldn't be love.

Well Gods aren't known to exist, so perhaps that is why no feels a God forcing itself on us.

At least a God could prevent children from being born with cancers, right? Wouldn't that be love?

 

[Wildswanderer]

While getting closer and closer to understanding reality. Look how far we've come in just 100 years.


A higher authority that nobody can demonstrate the existence of? Nah.


We've done a pretty good job so far.

Lol, obviously you don't see the news. We're doing a terrible job. How far we've come? I don't see peace on earth, do you? I see higher crime and less consequences as we get further away from the truth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well Gods aren't known to exist, so perhaps that is why no feels a God forcing itself on us.

Only 90 some percent of the population do feel God exists. Most humans seem to know this from something inherent in human nature.

 

[F1fan]

Is there logic here?

Who said God won't answer those problems? Or is it that you won't pray for those issues?

"So why does god answer your prayers? Why isn't that responsibility on you?"

Who said it wasn't my responsibility also?

That is why we have people who God has delivered from all types of problems including cancer. Cancer, diabetes, tumors, and a bunch of other things.

But the question is, "Are you doing your part?" or are you letting people die in their difficulties?

If you don't believe in prayer, are you giving toward the hunger needs of this world? Are you giving to the poor? Are you giving to the efforts to eradicate cancer?

Well then perhaps your God is more of the deist version. You know, a God that creates but does not intervene. That being the case, why pray since it is fruitless?

 

[F1fan]

Lol, obviously you don't see the news. We're doing a terrible job. How far we've come? I don't see peace on earth, do you? I see higher crime and less consequences as we get further away from the truth.

Then God should have created more balanced and mature humans. We are exactly as your God created, yes?

 

[Kenny]

But not the starving kids or the amputees. Just some cancer patients, some of the time. Like, at the rate of chance, basically.

#334

As I also have said before.. we don't stop cancer treatments just because it works "some of the times". We utilize it because it DOES work "some of the times!" Let's not throw out the baby with the dirty water - as the saying goes.

 

[Kenny]

Well then perhaps your God is more of the deist version. You know, a God that creates but does not intervene. That being the case, why pray since it is fruitless?

How did you come to that conclusion? Where have I ever said that God does not intervene?

Or is this a strawman attempt.

 

[F1fan]

Only 90 some percent of the population do feel God exists. Most humans seem to know this from something inherent in human nature.

Feelings are unreliable. Reason is reliable. Humans evolved a biological trait of adopting social norms and concepts for the sake of belonging. Children are indoctrinated to believe in religious ideas. There is no reasoned reason to think a God exists.

Science knows that humans had an advantage of survival to believe in tribal and group norms, and religious ideas grew from the primitive tribal norms. This explains why humans have many motivations, biological and social, to believe in what they learn from their social experience and that includes religious concepts. You learned everything you repeat here about religion. None of it is verifiable objectively or factually.

 

[F1fan]

How did you come to that conclusion? Where have I ever said that God does not intervene?

Or is this a strawman attempt.

I got it from you, man. You minimize your God acting in our lives and push it onto humans. That is in essence a deist God. Perhaps you're too busy defending your God not acting in human affairs to notice it doesn't do anything in human affairs.

 

[Kenny]

I got it from you, man. You minimize your God acting in our lives and push it onto humans. That is in essence a deist God. Perhaps you're too busy defending your God not acting in human affairs to notice it doesn't do anything in human affairs.

That was a BIIIIIG stretch.

I think this isn't a "defending God" OP since it is about a poorly created Double-Blind test on prayer.



But you can look at it however you want

 

[SkepticThinker]

Lol, obviously you don't see the news. We're doing a terrible job. How far we've come? I don't see peace on earth, do you? I see higher crime and less consequences as we get further away from the truth.

I see the news. I see that we discover more and more about the world we live in every day, by using the scientific method instead of faith.

We're not talking about peace on earth or whatever, we're talking about things we can actually demonstrate the existence of, rather than relying on faith, which is not a pathway to truth.

Thanks for ignoring 90% of my points, again.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Only 90 some percent of the population do feel God exists. Most humans seem to know this from something inherent in human nature.

Of course that doesn't mean they are known to exist. They are believed on faith, as you've just explained.

Which God(s)? Oh, nobody can seem to agree on that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Then God should have created more balanced and mature humans. We are exactly as your God created, yes?

No... God created us to follow him but we rebelled.