Double-blind Prayer Efficacy Test -- Really?

[Sheldon]

So we apparently have laws that just happened because we'll, you have no clue why, and yet you want to say that it's not blind even though you can't tell us what caused anything that exists to exist.
Yeah that was super enlightening, thanks,!

Scientific laws are descriptive, not prescriptive, and adding an unevidenced deity from an archaic superstition, and insisting what we don't don't understand must be "explicable" by inexplicable magic, is asinine.

 

[Sheldon]

Yep 96 percent of people suffer from hallucinations.. sounds perfectly reasonable, you convinced me!
Why people give you guys any credit for logic is beyond me.

I believe you, it really does appear to be beyond you. However lets try and clarify it, how many people who witness a magic show can trust their senses, and see it's magic? I don't think you know what logic means to be honest, seriously just Google the word.

 

[Sheldon]

I don't "deny" it. My position is simply that as there is zero evidence to support the claim, and no rational argument that makes it seem in any way necessary or reasonable, there is no reason to accept it as a valid and reasonable possibility.

What even is "the spiritual realm"? How do you know it exists?

Exactly, anymore than theists waste time denying the existence of unicorns or mermaids.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is nowhere close to as much evidence for the spirit realm as there is for air. For that matter, there is far more for dark matter than there is for the spirit realm.

There is for those who experience it's effects. Again you insist on everything having to be physical.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I believe you, it really does appear to be beyond you.

It certainly is beyond me why anyone would buy into your mass hallucination theories.

 

[Wildswanderer]

See, you can't really believe that. Not really.
The evidence for air is incontrovertible, repeatable, testable and verifiable, whatever your position is.
There is literally zero evidence for a "spiritual realm". You can't even explain what it is, never mind devise any reputable, verifiable tests for it.
Basically, you have surrendered any right to be taken seriously.

Of course I believe that the spiritual realm is as real, actually more real, than the physical one.
And given that most people experience it, I'd say your idea that it can't be tested is wrong. Just because something isn't measurable by physical means doesn't negate it's existence.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I do. I've already told you that I accept that possibility. You probably think that if I believe that my choices are predetermined, that I should despair. It's just not how my mind works. There is nothing about knowing that there might be no free will that makes me want to live differently. Perhaps that's what you mean when saying that nobody could live as if there is no free will.

No you don't. I bet you even look both ways before you cross the street. If everything is determined, things like that are unnecessary. You can't change anything if everything is determined... if you sit on the couch and eat ho hos, or go and work hard it make no difference, whatever will be will be.
Why not let fate just do it's thing? It's impossible. You still are motivated to try and excel at something even if it's pointless.

 

[ppp]

And given that most people experience it, I'd say your idea that it can't be tested is wrong.

Most people say that they experience it. You have no evidence that most people experience a "spiritual realm". You cannot even demonstrate that there is a "spiritual realm" for anyone to experience.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If that were the case, the two would have the same level of consensus that they exist.

It's pretty close. In fact, can you prove that more people understand what air is than there are people who believe in God? Since most people believe in a spiritual realm I think you are in a tiny minority.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Most people say that they experience it. You have no evidence that most people experience a "spiritual realm". You cannot even demonstrate that there is a "spiritual realm" for anyone to experience.

Another person who would rather believe that everybody in the world except for 4% have hallucinations. I don't have that kind of faith...the odds are just too much against you.

 

[Kenny]

You keep offering this hand waving denial, but what objection can you offer beyond a subjective claim that any prayer that fails is somehow flawed? If you can't offer objective evidence, then this is clearly just a special pleading fallacy.

L
I listed them. So I'm not sure what you are talking about other than Logical fallacy of Denial

 

[ppp]

Another person who would rather believe that everybody in the world except for 4% have hallucinations. I don't have that kind of faith...the odds are just too much against you.

All humans have hallucinations. But as what I said has nothing to do with hallucinations, you are raising an irrelevancy. Again.

 

[Sheldon]

There is for those who experience it's effects. Again you insist on everything having to be physical.

Nope, just that in this debate forum that your claim that something beyond the physical, must at least be remotely evidenced, and certainly beyond your subjective anecdotal claims.

 

[Sheldon]

It certainly is beyond me why anyone would buy into your mass hallucination theories.

It's not my theory, nor do I need to imagine any theory as to why you, or anyone else, believes in unevidenced magic.

 

[Sheldon]

Of course I believe that the spiritual realm is as real, actually more real, than the physical one.

Who cares what you believe, people believe in wildly different religions and deities to yours, and even in mermaids, so what's your point here?

And given that most people experience it, I'd say your idea that it can't be tested is wrong.

Really, another argumentum ad populum fallacy? Slow learner much?

Just because something isn't measurable by physical means doesn't negate it's existence.

Straw man fallacy, very slow learner much?

 

[Sheldon]

No you don't. I bet you even look both ways before you cross the street. If everything is determined, things like that are unnecessary.

Why bother, just use faith, especially if one holds the asinine belief that a deity knows what will happen anyway.

 

[Sheldon]

It's pretty close. In fact, can you prove that more people understand what air is than there are people who believe in God? Since most people believe in a spiritual realm I think you are in a tiny minority.

Argumentum ad populum fallacy.....again...

*****Mod Edit*****

 

[Wildswanderer]

probably never thinks any more about it than that. And because he has no experience thinking about the possibility that will is determined, he considers the idea ridiculous." Nothing you wrote makes

Yeah considering this is a subject that I spent years thinking about and studying, it's very arrogant of you to assume that I have no experience thinking about it.

 

[Sheldon]

Another person who would rather believe that everybody in the world except for 4% have hallucinations. I don't have that kind of faith...the odds are just too much against you.

Sigh, argumentum ad populum, again...

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
You keep offering this hand waving denial, but what objection can you offer beyond a subjective claim that any prayer that fails is somehow flawed? If you can't offer objective evidence, then this is clearly just a special pleading fallacy.

I listed them. So I'm not sure what you are talking about other than Logical fallacy of Denial

All you offered was hand waving denials? What logical fallacy? Be a dear and offer a link to an explanation of it, and quote where you claim I used it, as I think this is BS.