It's the percentage that separates knowing from believing.
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Double Minded Atheist
- Thread starter g2perk
- Start date
You use made-up percentages to demonstrate one stronger than the other, but one isn't stronger than the other. The difference between belief and knowledge is objective, not subjective.
It's not a qualitative difference for most. It's a difference of objectivity.
I can believe there's an Eiffel tower in France. Knowing the same doesn't change my belief.
Of course it is stronger to say I know than to say I believe so but I don't know.
What?
Your belief has just been replaced by knowledge. I used to believe there's an Eiffel Tower in France but now that I've seen it myself I know there is.
Stronger to say, because it's objective, but... not any stronger in reality (objectively).
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No, my belief doesn't differ for having one more piece of information, unless that information contradicts my belief.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
More information enhances one's belief or faith. It is a wrong notion that information diminishes or ends the belief or faith. The faith/belief that ends or diminishes with more information or knowledge is blind-faith/belief not a truthful faith or belief. My faith/belief increase with information and knowledge, that is why I am always in search of more information and knowledge. I strongly differ with friend @ArtieE . Please
Regards
That depends on whether the information supports the belief.
It will if the information contradicts the belief.
That is the difference between us. I am also always in search of more information and knowledge but I have no faith/belief I have no need for it. I just go where the information takes me.
I highly doubt you can provide evidence that is truly objective for any of what you are saying exists. Best wishes in trying.
No, the pain was not real, because the physical self is unreal. That is (squarely) where this whole tangent I'm bringing up resides. Some of y'all are doing the outward-in approach to trying to establish physical as real. Can we do that same logic in night dreams. That because my dream self perceives a whole lot of things that I did not make (no memory of making them) and that I identify as 'not me,' that therefore all of it is real, really existing? If not, why not? Is it because in that paradigm the whole inward-out approach trumps WHATEVER the outward-in argument may be?
As I've noted elsewhere on RF, when I was agnostic, I too then needed evidence of outward existence for God(s), for that to be viable position (or for me to even consider going in direction of theism). When I see that argument now presented, I can easily relate to it, because of a) how I used to be, b) how the argument has showed up for thousands of years and c) because we have a whole lot invested in the idea that God, if it exists, is separate from us. Now, as a strong theist (who does know), I find it irrational to think Creator God would position Itself as needing to be found somewhere other than the most obvious/self evident place to look, which is within own being. Therefore, in a very real sense we are God. But when the term is brought up, it is conjuring up a whole lot of definitions, such that if I'm not (currently) omnipotent or omniscient, then really am I God? Being the rational, critical thinking, acutely aware person that I am and have been for a long time, it is very rare that someone introduces a concept into discussion that I have not already considered and/or contemplated on. As I've noted elsewhere, I consider God to be (supreme) Love and the characteristic I find (consistently) mattering the most. I see that as omniscient and omnipotent. I do not (currently) identify my own self as being aligned or experiencing supreme Love, yet I also don't see that as lacking within me, or anyone, in general terms. And I find the way to overcome such lack is via forgiveness, wherever that perception of lack specifically arises. Not the outward-in version that passes for forgiveness, but actual forgiveness that is inward-out and is arguably the most sane function we have while in this world where everything appears to be separate and with physical eyes, God appears nowhere to be found.
Actually, to claim to know something -- in the epistemological sense -- really does require you to understand how you came to know it. To oversimplify epistemologically, to know means to have a Justified, True Belief (JTB). This means that:
1. You believe something to be true (my car is black)
2. The thing that you believe must be true (your car actually must be black)
3. You are justified to hold that belief (you are presently looking at your car, or have seen it recently enough to know that nobody has had time to take it to the shop and have it painted red).
Think about that last one again: if, in fact, your wife did take your car in and have it repainted, then the statement "I know my car is black," is false. On the other hand, the statement, " I know my car was black last time I looked at it" would be true.
In real life when I say I know my car is black or say I'm 100% certain that my car is black it just means that I'm 100% certain that my car is black, it doesn't mean that my car actually is black, it just means that I'm 100% certain that it is. If I had any doubt about that whatsoever I would have said I believe my car is black.
Well, if I don't objectively exist who are you communicating with? A figment of your own subjective imagination? You sure seem to treat me as if I actually objectively exists...
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An aspect of our/my Higher Self. Me, in another form, is how I usually phrase it.
I understand the form to be illusionary, and identify the processing as partially subjective (arguably mostly) and partially intersubjective (if de-emphasizing form).
Have you considered telling your psychiatrist that you have been talking to yourself all your life and that he is also you in another form? I'm sure he can help you...
TruthEnder
Member
If somebody went through the process of making a chart, it must have merit.
At least I now know from your viewpoint that these labels are merely intended to convey how certain you are whether or not God exists. Because the real debate isn't whether or not a God actually exists, it's how certain you are that counts!
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Kuzcotopia
If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Science and Religion both go by faith and experience/experiments. Please
Regards
TruthEnder
Member
I'm willing to hear this. Go on.