Double Standards and Hypocrisy

[Stevicus]

Are double standards always an indicator of hypocrisy? Are double standards sometimes legitimate?

I've noticed this comes up a lot in the media when there are allegations, although it seems to be different depending on who the target might be. A recent example seems to involve Andrew Cuomo, where it was pointed out that he demanded the resignation of Eric Schneiderman only three hours after an allegation was leveled against him. When asked if he should hold himself to the same standard, he said "there are allegations and then there are allegations." What does that even mean? It sounds like saying "rules for thee but not for me."

It was similar with the Kavanaugh allegations, where Cuomo was among those who said "I believe her," but apparently, we're not supposed to believe allegations made against him.

Either we have a consistent set of principles or we don't. If sexual harassment is wrong, then it's wrong regardless of whether it's done by Democrats or Republicans.

But it's not just in that area. There are other areas where inconsistencies and double standards can be discerned, but I see no defense or justification for it. When called on it, I see people screaming "false equivalence," or they go into some convoluted, mealy-mouthed "explanation" which explains nothing at all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can see it in something like a teacher insisting a student use the techniques learned rather than more complicated things the student has seen.
For the given examples, I can't think of any reason that would make them valid. The rules should apply to everyone equally.

 

[Nakosis]

I also think standards should apply to all equally. If you can't apply them to yourself you ought not be out there applying them to anyone else.

People tend to find ways to justify what they do even while preaching a set of standards to the world. It's not until someone else points out the hypocrisy we realize that maybe we weren't as justified in our actions as we thought we were. Then you got to do some pretty irrational mental juggling to avoid being labeled as a hypocrite. Often the last nail on the coffin for a politician.

 

[Revoltingest]

"False equivalency" is the most
over-used & mis-used phrase on RF.
Well, aside from "Pull my finger.".

 

[Lyndon]

The hiding nursing home deaths and sending covid ill patients back to the nursing home was a major crime but what Ive heard about the sexual harassment doesn't seem like very severe sexual harassment, almost normal for many single guys

 

[Nakosis]

The hiding nursing home deaths and sending covid ill patients back to the nursing home was a major crime but what Ive heard about the sexual harassment doesn't seem like very severe sexual harassment, almost normal for many single guys

Yes, but I think in the workplace it depends on whether the woman felt uncomfortable or bullied.
Very difficult to avoid in an employer/employee relationship. As governor, I'd suspect one would need to avoid any kind of interoffice flirtations.
One person being in a position of power over another makes it inherently uncomfortable.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Are double standards always an indicator of hypocrisy?

I'll confine myself to a fairly limited scope in my answer.
Whilst I think they often are (and it's something that drives me nuts), we do need to allow people to become more informed, or otherwise change their mind on a topic.
We also need to allow for variation between the original position and the current one which can't be captured as a soundbyte.

As an overly simplistic example, I might be regularly quoted as stating that people are 'innocent until proven guilty'. But I might choose to stand someone down who is accused of something.
Depending on both how that stand-down is managed, and how it was reported, this might give the appearance of hypocrisy.

To be clear, I'm making no comment on the NY governor specifically, and I've mostly not educated myself on the particulars of this issue. And...often...it is simply hypocrisy. My only point is that it is not ALWAYS an indicator of hypocrisy in my opinion.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I can see it in something like a teacher insisting a student use the techniques learned rather than more complicated things the student has seen.
For the given examples, I can't think of any reason that would make them valid. The rules should apply to everyone equally.

That doesn't seem like an example of either double standards or hypocrisy, though.
More a restriction, which I'm assuming would be equally applied to all students?

 

[sun rise]

It was similar with the Kavanaugh allegations, where Cuomo was among those who said "I believe her," but apparently, we're not supposed to believe allegations made against him.

Knowing how often in our marriage my wife and I have disagreed on our perception of events, I loathe "he said, she said" situations. IF and it's a very very big IF we assume that both are being honest, then I can believe that both are telling what they believe to be the truth from their perspective.

But of course, human nature being what it is, either can be equally dishonest.

But when many women share the same perspective, then to me the balance shifts to their report.

But it's not just in that area. There are other areas where inconsistencies and double standards can be discerned, but I see no defense or justification for it. When called on it, I see people screaming "false equivalence,"

The same kind of thing happens here but not in the same arena. Not all claims of 'false equivalence' are true and not all claims are false.

So: an example. Trump and Cuomo. Trump groped women, bragged about it publicly and paid hush money. Cuomo admitted to some acts which women found offensive and voluntarily asked for an independent investigator to look into the reports.

Is what Cuomo admitted doing equivalent to what Trump admitted doing? Not in my book.That does not mean Cuomo is innocent of what he did but merely that the acts are not equivalent.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Are double standards sometimes legitimate?

I believe they are. Not all things be measured with the same scale.

 

[Heyo]

Are double standards always an indicator of hypocrisy? Are double standards sometimes legitimate?

Yes, they are. Usually double standards are legitimate when they balance some other inequality. People in power should be held to higher moral standards. ("With great power comes great responsibility." - Uncle Ben)
Different standards are also legitimate when someone or a group has set the standard themselves. You can hold someone to their standard even if you don't accept that standard for yourself. (Claiming to be "fiscally responsible" and voting for endless, costly wars doesn't fit together. If you don't claim "fiscal responsibility", you can vote for a social program without being called out on it.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That doesn't seem like an example of either double standards or hypocrisy, though.
More a restriction, which I'm assuming would be equally applied to all students?

I had the saying "do as I say, not as I do" going through my head when I wrote that.

 

[Heyo]

I had the saying "do as I say, not as I do" going through my head when I wrote that.

"Do as I say, not as I do." is the first command for people wanting to use my forge. When I use my bare hands to shift burning coals doesn't mean you have to try that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I also think standards should apply to all equally. If you can't apply them to yourself you ought not be out there applying them to anyone else.

People tend to find ways to justify what they do even while preaching a set of standards to the world. It's not until someone else points out the hypocrisy we realize that maybe we weren't as justified in our actions as we thought we were. Then you got to do some pretty irrational mental juggling to avoid being labeled as a hypocrite. Often the last nail on the coffin for a politician.

I don't think that all standards should apply to all humans equally, because if you look closer, the standard of being rational can end up harming irrational humans. I am one of them in a limited sense, so I am always critical of the normal people taking their own subjectivity as universal for all humans in all cases.

 

[Stevicus]

Knowing how often in our marriage my wife and I have disagreed on our perception of events, I loathe "he said, she said" situations. IF and it's a very very big IF we assume that both are being honest, then I can believe that both are telling what they believe to be the truth from their perspective.

But of course, human nature being what it is, either can be equally dishonest.

But when many women share the same perspective, then to me the balance shifts to their report.



The same kind of thing happens here but not in the same arena. Not all claims of 'false equivalence' are true and not all claims are false.

So: an example. Trump and Cuomo. Trump groped women, bragged about it publicly and paid hush money. Cuomo admitted to some acts which women found offensive and voluntarily asked for an independent investigator to look into the reports.

Is what Cuomo admitted doing equivalent to what Trump admitted doing? Not in my book.That does not mean Cuomo is innocent of what he did but merely that the acts are not equivalent.

I don't think anyone was comparing Cuomo to Trump.

Perhaps another way to look at it would be to measure it against their perceived set of principles.

 

[Stevicus]

Yes, they are. Usually double standards are legitimate when they balance some other inequality. People in power should be held to higher moral standards. ("With great power comes great responsibility." - Uncle Ben)

Yes, I could agree with this, although in many cases, we're talking about comparisons between those with similar levels of power. Although "power" can become an issue, in and of itself, depending on how one defines it and how it is manifested.

Different standards are also legitimate when someone or a group has set the standard themselves. You can hold someone to their standard even if you don't accept that standard for yourself. (Claiming to be "fiscally responsible" and voting for endless, costly wars doesn't fit together. If you don't claim "fiscal responsibility", you can vote for a social program without being called out on it.)

Sometimes, there might be those who hold conflicting standards simultaneously. For example, there might be those who would criticize other factions for bombing innocent civilians, implying a standard that bombing innocent civilians is always wrong. But then, if they're called on it for doing it themselves, they might express a different (conflicting) standard such as "war is hell, deal with it." The same people who scream "bomb them back to the stone age" suddenly change their tune when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are double standards always an indicator of hypocrisy? Are double standards sometimes legitimate?

I've noticed this comes up a lot in the media when there are allegations, although it seems to be different depending on who the target might be. A recent example seems to involve Andrew Cuomo, where it was pointed out that he demanded the resignation of Eric Schneiderman only three hours after an allegation was leveled against him. When asked if he should hold himself to the same standard, he said "there are allegations and then there are allegations." What does that even mean? It sounds like saying "rules for thee but not for me."

It was similar with the Kavanaugh allegations, where Cuomo was among those who said "I believe her," but apparently, we're not supposed to believe allegations made against him.

Either we have a consistent set of principles or we don't. If sexual harassment is wrong, then it's wrong regardless of whether it's done by Democrats or Republicans.

But it's not just in that area. There are other areas where inconsistencies and double standards can be discerned, but I see no defense or justification for it. When called on it, I see people screaming "false equivalence," or they go into some convoluted, mealy-mouthed "explanation" which explains nothing at all.

It happens so much now I pretty much throw up the hands in the air.

Not much is going to change for the better along those lines anytime soon.

 

[Revoltingest]

So: an example. Trump and Cuomo. Trump groped women, bragged about it publicly and paid hush money. Cuomo admitted to some acts which women found offensive and voluntarily asked for an independent investigator to look into the reports.

Is what Cuomo admitted doing equivalent to what Trump admitted doing? Not in my book.That does not mean Cuomo is innocent of what he did but merely that the acts are not equivalent.

The above illustrates one way that double standards arise.
Commonly on RF, if one criticizes a Democrat for some
wrongful act, one endures the cry "False equivalency!"
because Trump is worse. To be not as bad as Trump
makes it wrong to criticize, ie, wrongful behavior becomes
tacitly OK for Democrats as criticism is shouted down.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The above illustrates one way that double standards arise.
Commonly on RF, if one criticizes a Democrat for some
wrongful act, one endures the cry "False equivalency!"
because Trump is worse. To be not as bad as Trump
makes it wrong to criticize, ie, wrongful behavior becomes
tacitly OK for Democrats as criticism is shouted down.

Well, I will criticize anyone. So I do get you.

 

[Heyo]

Sometimes, there might be those who hold conflicting standards simultaneously.

Those are called hypocrites.