Dozens of German priests will defy the Vatican and live-stream blessings of gay couples

[pearl]

And yet, strangely, the church seemingly has no problem with the marriage of heterosexual couples who cannot produce offspring of their own, or with heterosexual couples using contraception.

Only due to age or some other physical problem not quite the same thing as an 'orientation' . If artificial birth control is now ok, I must have missed the memo. I can remember when artificial birth control was illegal as the state had the same idea of marriage.

 

[PruePhillip]

'Dozens of Catholic priests in Germany plan defy the Vatican and bless homosexual partnerships, with many set to live-stream the blessings online.

In March, the Vatican decreed that the Catholic Church cannot bless same-sex marriages. In response, more than 230 professors of Catholic theology in Germany – and other countries where German is spoken – signed a statement protesting the decision, the Associated Press reports.'

Source: Dozens of German priests will defy the Vatican and live-stream blessings of gay couples

Good on them for doing the right thing in standing up to the immorality of the Vatican in discriminating against gay couples in my opinion

The Vatican doesn't just 'discriminate' against homosexuals. They also 'discriminated' against divorce and
remarriage, dead-beat dads, people living in sin, drugs, bestiality, they have even banned cigarette sales in
the Vatican. But given time you might well be a good Catholic if you marry two twelve year old girls and their
younger brother for a weekend marriage. If it's ok for society in general the Catholic Church will soon follow.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

'Dozens of Catholic priests in Germany plan defy the Vatican and bless homosexual partnerships, with many set to live-stream the blessings online.

In March, the Vatican decreed that the Catholic Church cannot bless same-sex marriages. In response, more than 230 professors of Catholic theology in Germany – and other countries where German is spoken – signed a statement protesting the decision, the Associated Press reports.'

Source: Dozens of German priests will defy the Vatican and live-stream blessings of gay couples

Good on them for doing the right thing in standing up to the immorality of the Vatican in discriminating against gay couples in my opinion

I disagree.

Both these "professors of Catholic theology" and the Catholic Church are trying to live according to their beliefs.

I do not believe that the Vatican is "discriminating" against anyone by refusing to bless same-sex marriages.

They believe that homosexual behavior is sinful and that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

They have every right to believe these things and act accordingly.

Since no one is forcing any of these same-sex couples to be Catholics - no one should try to force the Catholic Church to bless their unions.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

'Dozens of Catholic priests in Germany plan defy the Vatican and bless homosexual partnerships, with many set to live-stream the blessings online.

In March, the Vatican decreed that the Catholic Church cannot bless same-sex marriages. In response, more than 230 professors of Catholic theology in Germany – and other countries where German is spoken – signed a statement protesting the decision, the Associated Press reports.'

Source: Dozens of German priests will defy the Vatican and live-stream blessings of gay couples

Good on them for doing the right thing in standing up to the immorality of the Vatican in discriminating against gay couples in my opinion

I've noticed that the Catholic Church in Germany seems stacked with heretics. It seems to be mostly Germany I hear these sorts of stories from.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Vatican doesn't just 'discriminate' against homosexuals. They also 'discriminated' against divorce and
remarriage, dead-beat dads, people living in sin, drugs, bestiality, they have even banned cigarette sales in
the Vatican. But given time you might well be a good Catholic if you marry two twelve year old girls and their
younger brother for a weekend marriage. If it's ok for society in general the Catholic Church will soon follow.

Yet they still serve alcohol to minors.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yet they still serve alcohol to minors.

Lol. A girl I knew from high school told me she accidentally drank the entire chalice at her First Communion and got drunk from it. (You're only supposed to take a sip.)

 

[danieldemol]

...
Both these "professors of Catholic theology" and the Catholic Church are trying to live according to their beliefs.

Agreed.

I do not believe that the Vatican is "discriminating" against anyone by refusing to bless same-sex marriages.

I think you might be playing semantics here.

Discrimination is defined as;
' treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:' 1

1 discrimination

Refusing people a blessing would certainly be treating them differently than others due to sexual preference.

I think what you are trying to say here is that it is ok to discriminate against them because of the beliefs motivating the discrimination, or because you think God is behind the discrimination (albeit without evidence)

Since no one is forcing any of these same-sex couples to be Catholics - no one should try to force the Catholic Church to bless their unions.

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I don't know of the German priests trying to "force" the Catholic Church to bless their unions.

What I assume they are doing by livestreaming their blessings is publicly protesting the church's attempt to coerce (ie force) them into not blessing same sex unions of gay couples through threat of excommunication and the like.

In my opinion.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The Vatican doesn't just 'discriminate' against homosexuals. They also 'discriminated' against divorce and
remarriage, dead-beat dads, people living in sin, drugs, bestiality, they have even banned cigarette sales in
the Vatican. But given time you might well be a good Catholic if you marry two twelve year old girls and their
younger brother for a weekend marriage. If it's ok for society in general the Catholic Church will soon follow.

There are a few things they didn't discriminate against over the history of the Vatican that leads me to wonder why I'd care about their 'moral leadership'.

You're not suggesting they've been a consistent beacon of morality throughout history are you?

 

[PruePhillip]

There are a few things they didn't discriminate against over the history of the Vatican that leads me to wonder why I'd care about their 'moral leadership'.

You're not suggesting they've been a consistent beacon of morality throughout history are you?

Absolutely not. I find a lot of what this church has done to be quite evil.
I was referring to the New Testament.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I think you might be playing semantics here.

Discrimination is defined as;
' treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, sex, sexuality, etc.:' 1

1 discrimination

Refusing people a blessing would certainly be treating them differently than others due to sexual preference.

I think what you are trying to say here is that it is ok to discriminate against them because of the beliefs motivating the discrimination, or because you think God is behind the discrimination (albeit without evidence)

This "blessing" of the Catholic Church does not affect a marriage contract at all.

It is simply the means by which they express their consideration of whether a marriage is valid or not - according to the Church.

You and I and no one else has any business telling any Church how it should run itself or what it should believe.

As long as the Catholic Church is not violating any law - they are free to practice their beliefs as they see fit.

Also - you are acting as if same-sex unions are the only marriages the Catholic Church has ever chosen not to bless.

The Catholic Church is known for not blessing marriages if the Catholic spouse marries a non-Catholic, if a Catholic decides to get married somewhere other than at their own parish, if the participants have been divorced and a plethora of other reasons.

Were these refusals "especially" more discriminating? Was this discrimination "worse" somehow?

The fact of the matter is - the Catholic Church has their own standards and beliefs and they operate according to them.

Everyone and their grandma knows the Catholic Church's stance on homosexual behavior and marriage.

If people act contrary to these things - the Catholic Church can refuse to extend particular benefits of membership in their Church - such as a blessing - to those people.

They are well within their rights and there is nothing immoral about it.

Granted - they have no evidence that any of these beliefs come from God - it is just their opinion - but you also have no evidence that the Catholic Church's refusal to bless same-sex unions is immoral - that is simply your own opinion.

What's next? Are you going to claim that they need to baptize everyone or else they are discriminating?

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I don't know of the German priests trying to "force" the Catholic Church to bless their unions.

Of course they are. Why else would they do it? What's the point in protesting if you aren't demanding any change?

What I assume they are doing by livestreaming their blessings is publicly protesting the church's attempt to coerce (ie force) them into not blessing same sex unions of gay couples through threat of excommunication and the like.

Yet - all of their "authority" to bless any union comes from the Vatican.

This is like saying a group of police officers began livestreaming themselves breaking the law to protest the State's attempt to coerce (i.e. "force") them into enforcing the law by threat of termination of employment.

Sure - both the police officers and these German priests are free to protest whatever they want - but they shouldn't expect to keep their jobs - because they aren't doing their jobs - and they are abusing the authority given to them by using it for their own selfish aims.

 

[danieldemol]

This "blessing" of the Catholic Church does not affect a marriage contract at all.

It is simply the means by which they express their consideration of whether a marriage is valid or not - according to the Church.

You and I and no one else has any business telling any Church how it should run itself or what it should believe.

I find your indignation at the free expression of opinion ironic considering the church wants to tell people what they should believe.

As long as the Catholic Church is not violating any law - they are free to practice their beliefs as they see fit.

Agreed.

Also - you are acting as if same-sex unions are the only marriages the Catholic Church has ever chosen not to bless.

Really, how so?

The Catholic Church is known for not blessing marriages if the Catholic spouse marries a non-Catholic, if a Catholic decides to get married somewhere other than at their own parish, if the participants have been divorced and a plethora of other reasons.

Were these refusals "especially" more discriminating? Was this discrimination "worse" somehow?

Thank you for admitting those cases are discrimination. And no it is not worse discrimination, it is about the same.

If people act contrary to these things - the Catholic Church can refuse to extend particular benefits of membership in their Church - such as a blessing - to those people.

They are well within their rights and there is nothing immoral about it.

Granted - they have no evidence that any of these beliefs come from God - it is just their opinion - but you also have no evidence that the Catholic Church's refusal to bless same-sex unions is immoral - that is simply your own opinion.

Thank you for acknowledging theirs is just an opinion. The evidence that the Catholic church's refusal to bless is immoral is that it is lacking compassion for the gay couples that it has indoctrinated to fear hell-fire then burdening them with guilt by refusing to bless their natural and reasonable inclinations.

What's next? Are you going to claim that they need to baptize everyone or else they are discriminating?

Nope, and I think it is unreasonable to let the fear of whatever phantom menace you imagine is going to be next to interfere with your ability to deal rationally with the present case.

Of course they are. Why else would they do it? What's the point in protesting if you aren't demanding any change?

I'm afraid I do not see how peaceful protest forces anyone to do anything.

Yet - all of their "authority" to bless any union comes from the Vatican.

All the authority the Vatican has comes from the power people who believe in it invest in it. Perhaps these protests are a decent wake up call to those who invest a little too much power in the vatican.

This is like saying a group of police officers began livestreaming themselves breaking the law to protest the State's attempt to coerce (i.e. "force") them into enforcing the law by threat of termination of employment.

That would be a valid allegory if the law in question the police were expected to follow was an immoral law.

Sure - both the police officers and these German priests are free to protest whatever they want - but they shouldn't expect to keep their jobs - because they aren't doing their jobs - and they are abusing the authority given to them by using it for their own selfish aims.

To the contrary, it is selfless to lay one's means of livelihood on the line to make a stand for what is just and moral. The selfish ones are in the vatican too afraid to oppose conservatives for fear of losing power - they are the ones who are really acting in accordance with their own selfish aim - the aim of lust for leadership and power that the vatican brings amongst conservatives.

In my opinion.

 

[Glaurung]

For those of us who do not like change we tend to object on the false grounds that 'its always been that way' when in actually it hasn't always been that way in the history of the one Church.

Scripture is clear that same-sex relationships can never have moral standing before God. Any sexual act not ordered towards the ends of marriage is a mortal sin. The notion that the Church can bless mortal sin is a sacrilege and it should horrify us that men who call themselves Catholic priests would have such pretenses. The fundamental moral truths of Christianity cannot change because they come from God and not the disordered sentiments of worldly people enamored with their own concupiscence.

The great Christian nations have become nations of apostates. We have spurned God and we have forgotten our eternal destines. And for what? For the short lived pleasures of the flesh. We kick and scream about our feelings forgetting that we're called to merit eternal glory if we but man up and walk that narrow path of virtue.

 

[pearl]

Scripture is clear that same-sex relationships can never have moral standing before God.

Actually, Scripture is not that clear, its not referring to a sexual relationship, but to an act of perversion.
It is the Church's position that a homosexual orientation is not chosen, only to act on it is freely chosen.
The authors of Scripture knew nothing of sexual orientation.

 

[PruePhillip]

Actually, Scripture is not that clear, its not referring to a sexual relationship, but to an act of perversion.
It is the Church's position that a homosexual orientation is not chosen, only to act on it is freely chosen.
The authors of Scripture knew nothing of sexual orientation.

I suspect they knew as much, if not more, than YOU do.
It is people TODAY who don't know what perversion is because they swim in it.

 

[oldbadger]

'Dozens of Catholic priests in Germany plan defy the Vatican and bless homosexual partnerships, with many set to live-stream the blessings online.

In March, the Vatican decreed that the Catholic Church cannot bless same-sex marriages. In response, more than 230 professors of Catholic theology in Germany – and other countries where German is spoken – signed a statement protesting the decision, the Associated Press reports.'

Source: Dozens of German priests will defy the Vatican and live-stream blessings of gay couples

Good on them for doing the right thing in standing up to the immorality of the Vatican in discriminating against gay couples in my opinion

Yep..... Excellent.
Good job.

 

[oldbadger]

These clerics have abandoned Catholicism. They're schismatics and ought to be formally excommunicated.

No problem. Thousands of clerics have dumped Catholicism before, so nothing new there.

But don't pretend that you know 'God's moral laws' because that very term shows that you do not.
God's laws to Moses were all about success for his people, and this word 'moral' is just religious spin.
Try me. Pick a law (other than sacrifice/ceremony). Let me explain it to you.

 

[oldbadger]

@danieldemol
I always thought that Catholics believe the Pope to be God's on Earth & infallible.
If that is so, then why do people even dare to disagree with him about anything?

Ah, our King/Queen (UK) is supposed to be annointed by God, but she leaves such decisions to the people now.
See how much brighter she is?

 

[oldbadger]

By whom? Please provide details...that is not at all my understanding.

I reckon the Borgia's knocked the stuffing out of Papal infallibility.
Just a thought.

 

[pearl]

Lol. A girl I knew from high school told me she accidentally drank the entire chalice at her First Communion and got drunk from it. (You're only supposed to take a sip.)

That would have been impossible, the one who administers the Chalice would not have allowed it, plus, these kids have rehearsed the process thoroughly before the big event.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That would have been impossible, the one who administers the Chalice would not have allowed it, plus, these kids have rehearsed the process thoroughly before the big event.

Things happen. These are kids we're talking about here. I don't see the point of making the story up. Why? To embarrass herself? Come on. Anyway, it was just a funny story, nothing serious.