Drinking of blood or alcohol figuratively, doesn’t match the bible.

[wizanda]

Rev 16:6
(6)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy (accounted).

Psa 16:4-5
(4) Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.
(5) The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.


Eze 39:17-29
(17) And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
(18) Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
(19) And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
(20) Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
(21) And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
(22) So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
(23) And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
(24) According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
(25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
(26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
(27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
(28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
(29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

So after Christ and drinking of blood taught by house of Israel/Pharisees, Israel was indeed cut of…


Zec 11:2-17
(2) Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
(3) There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
(4) Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
(5) Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.
(6) For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
(7) And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty (grace), and the other I called Bands (inheritance); and I fed the flock.
(8) Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
(9) Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
(10) And I took my staff, even Beauty (grace), and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
(11) And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
(12) And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
(13) And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
(14) Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands (inheritance), that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
(15) And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
(16) For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
(17) Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Clearly what Christ did….and Paul as false shepherd, whom ran off to the desert (dry places) to begin.

 

[wizanda]

Hab 2:2-20
(2) And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
(3) For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
(4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
(5) Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
(6) Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth that which is not his! how long? and to him that ladeth himself with thick clay!
(7) Shall they not rise up suddenly that shall bite thee, and awake that shall vex thee, and thou shalt be for booties unto them?
(8) Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.
(9) Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
(10) Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned against thy soul.
(11) For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beam out of the timber shall answer it.
(12) Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
(13) Behold, is it not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
(14) For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
(15) Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
(16) Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD'S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.
(17) For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.
(18) What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
(19) Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
(20) But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

So whom is responsible?
If Yeshua at the last super, said “I ask you not to drink of the vine”
yet deliberate translation by the Pharisees and their church after, has replaced it you must do this?
I do believe Yeshua said not, yet then we shall never know other then evidence provided for us…where he does say he is wine bibber implying that of the proud man.


Mat 11:19
(19) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

So the way I look is, God sends a test for 30 pieces of silver for a drunk prophet? or an offer, I know it says sacrifice, yet all the way through God can’t not sacrifice and it is to teach as Balaam, to say God would need to sacrifice anything or anyone.
So when Yeshua said he came to bring divided is that what he meant? And not those who follow the name (jesus) or not as John (Pharisee) would have you believe.

So did Christ make it clear not to drink?
Did he make it clear he came to cut off inheritance and grace, through the act of dieing for 30 pieces of silver?

 

[Doodlebug02]

Are you referring to the Eucharist?

 

[wizanda]

Yeh, it is sort of sick, don't you find for a man to die and another man to think he can drink his blood as sin offering, yet what makes it worse, is to brings old wine into the house of God as well.
The right hand of God also contains a foaming cup of alcohol, as the same side as Yeshua is on.
This is about that bit, yet also the whole essence of Yeshua death, murder and underlying meaning given in scripture, not from the muddled Pharisee versions of events, when they were the people whom murdered him. which really confuses the real meaning, from what this said he would do, as they were to be cut off….yet re-established; as they have, being under the banner Christianity....yet then not to follow Christ, yet to be Anti his teachings?

 

[Doodlebug02]

Yeh, it is sort of sick, don't you find for a man to die and another man to think he can drink his blood as sin offering, yet what makes it worse, is to brings old wine into the house of God as well.
The right hand of God also contains a foaming cup of alcohol, as the same side as Yeshua is on.
This is about that bit, yet also the whole essence of Yeshua death, murder and underlying meaning given in scripture, not from the muddled Pharisee versions of events, when they were the people whom murdered him. which really confuses the real meaning, from what this said he would do, as they were to be cut off….yet re-established; as they have, being under the banner Christianity....yet then not to follow Christ, yet to be Anti his teachings?

I don't find the Eucharist to be sick at all.

 

[anders]

I don't need Bible quotes to find the Eucharist, as taught by at least Roman Catholics and Lutherans, revolting. Eating the meat from a person (or was he?) who died some 2000 years ago! And don't tell me it's just symbolic in those, and probably more, flavours of Christinity. They very clearly say that is is (parts of) the true body of the Christ, in one case just previously having been bread (transubstantiation), in the other existing somehow between the bread particles (consubstantiation).

 

[wizanda]

Mar 9:41
(41) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Mar 10:37-40
(37) They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
(38) But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
(39) And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
(40) But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

This was before the last super, so which cup was it Yeshua referred to?

Psa 116:13-15
(13) I will take the cup of salvation (Yeshua), and call upon the name of the LORD.
(14) I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.
(15) Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Jer 25:13-17
(13) And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.
(14) For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.
(15) For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
(16) And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword (mattock - Cherub) that I will send among them.
(17) Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:

 

[ChristineES]

I came across this before in another thread where the person said that the communion was canniblism. I can tell you, it is not canniblism. The bread represents the body of the lamb and the wine represents the blood that was poured out. Remember that in Exodus for Passover, they put the lamb's blood around the doorstop and feasted on the lamb. It has absolutely nothing to do with eating a human being.

 

[astarath]

I came across this before in another thread where the person said that the communion was canniblism. I can tell you, it is not canniblism. The bread represents the body of the lamb and the wine represents the blood that was poured out. Remember that in Exodus for Passover, they put the lamb's blood around the doorstop and feasted on the lamb. It has absolutely nothing to do with eating a human being.

The tenet "this is my blood you drink, this is my body you eat" is a graphic representation used to show the significance of the sacrifice the lord was making. We are merely to remember him as a lamb to the slaughter. Without choice his was slaughtered to save the followers of God.

extremely similar to the passover!!!!!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't find the Eucharist to be sick at all.

:beach:

Niether did the church who wrote, preserved, and proclaimed the message of Christ since the beginning.

 

[yuvgotmel]

• The Passover must be a lamb or goat (Exodus 12:5)…According to the “New Testament” Jesus was a man. A lamb/goat is not a human. A human is not a lamb/goat. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah.

• That the uncircumcised shall not eat of the flesh of the Paschal lamb (Exodus 12:48)…According to the "New Testament" uncircumcised gentiles are encouraged to symbolically partake of the "Lord's Supper" i.e. eat the "Lamb's body." Symbolically eating Jesus, the "Lamb's" flesh by uncircumcised men is a violation of the spirit of commandment. Symbolically eating human flesh is a violation of the spirit of commandments.

• Not to drink or eat any manner of blood (Leviticus 7:26, Leviticus 17:12 See also: Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 3:17, Leviticus 17:14, Leviticus 19:26, Deuteronomy 12:16, Deuteronomy 12:23 - 25, Deuteronomy 15:23, 1 Samuel 14:32-34, Ezekiel 33:25)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus taught the symbolic drinking of his blood. Symbolically drinking human blood is a violation of the spirit of commandments. Jesus taught against Torah and caused his disciples to sin.

• The Passover lamb can only be slaughtered within the Temple grounds (Deuteronomy 16:2, Deuteronomy 16:5)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

• To offer all sacrifices in the Sanctuary (Deuteronomy 12:11, Deuteronomy 12:14)…. According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

• Not to slaughter beasts set apart for sacrifices outside (the Sanctuary) (Leviticus 17:3-4)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

• The lamb or goat can only be slaughtered 14th of Nisan at the going down of the sun (Exodus 12:6, Leviticus 23:5, Numbers 9:3, 2, Chronicles 35:1, Ezekiel 45:21)….The “New Testament” records that at least one day or two days pass from the "Last Supper" until the crucifixion of Jesus. It is impossible to have Jesus celebrating the Seder i.e., "Last Supper" at the only appointed time of 14 Nisan at the going down of the sun and being the "Passover Lamb" that is sacrificed only on 14th Nisan at the going down of the sun. One cannot do both. To celebrate the Passover on a day earlier than 14th Nisan is a violation of Torah. To sacrifice the Passover a day earlier/later is a violation of Torah. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

• Only the Israelites are to kill the Passover lamb (Exodus 12:6)….According to the “New Testament” uncircumcised pagan Romans killed Jesus. Jesus was not offered as a sacrifice by the Israelites but was killed by pagans. Jesus did not fulfill Torah as an acceptable sacrifice according to Torah.

• Not to offer up a blemished beast that comes from non-Israelites (Leviticus 22:25)….According to the “New Testament” The uncircumcised pagan Romans blemished Jesus. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah.

• To cook the lamb with fire, roasted whole (Exodus 12:8 – 9, Deuteronomy 16:7)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was not roasted whole. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

 

[ChristineES]

Yes, Jesus was a man. But he represented a lamb. He said so himself. It is mentioned in both Isaiah and the NT. Eating his bread was eating the "lamb's" body, since His apostles could not eat His flesh. I really don't expect to convert anyone who does not believe it, but this is what I believe.

I got this representation(Jesus as a Passover lamb) from Zola Levitt, a Messianic Jew who passed away last year.

 

[astarath]

• The Passover must be a lamb or goat (Exodus 12:5)…According to the “New Testament” Jesus was a man. A lamb/goat is not a human. A human is not a lamb/goat. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah.

Christ was not a passover meal, he was a sacrifice to atone for sin. My statement is that there are points in common with the passover sacrifice.

• That the uncircumcised shall not eat of the flesh of the Paschal lamb (Exodus 12:48)…According to the "New Testament" uncircumcised gentiles are encouraged to symbolically partake of the "Lord's Supper" i.e. eat the "Lamb's body." Symbolically eating Jesus, the "Lamb's" flesh by uncircumcised men is a violation of the spirit of commandment. Symbolically eating human flesh is a violation of the spirit of commandments.

In the same new testament (i assume you are quoting from Paul, whose writings I consider false and not of God) all children Jew and Gentile are called children of god and are worthy of the lamb (Jesus) When Christ offers his last supper it is to a room of Jewish followers all men were circumcised as per the tradition of the pharisees and saducees.

• Not to drink or eat any manner of blood (Leviticus 7:26, Leviticus 17:12 See also: Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 3:17, Leviticus 17:14, Leviticus 19:26, Deuteronomy 12:16, Deuteronomy 12:23 - 25, Deuteronomy 15:23, 1 Samuel 14:32-34, Ezekiel 33:25)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus taught the symbolic drinking of his blood. Symbolically drinking human blood is a violation of the spirit of commandments. Jesus taught against Torah and caused his disciples to sin.

As well as I mentioned above these comments were used not as specific transfiguration of the wine to blood but rather as a parable or metaphor to symbolize the importance and purpose of his sacrifice.

• The Passover lamb can only be slaughtered within the Temple grounds (Deuteronomy 16:2, Deuteronomy 16:5)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

He was not the passover lamb, he was the son of God. His sacrifice spread all the way to the altar in the holy of holies in the temple and split the scroll in two.

• To offer all sacrifices in the Sanctuary (Deuteronomy 12:11, Deuteronomy 12:14)…. According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

He was not the one offering the sacrifice and as such I would agree that the roman's did not follow proper sacrificial tenets. Christ unfortunately was in no place to correct the events at that moment.

• Not to slaughter beasts set apart for sacrifices outside (the Sanctuary) (Leviticus 17:3-4)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was killed outside the city at Golgotha. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

See above.

• The lamb or goat can only be slaughtered 14th of Nisan at the going down of the sun (Exodus 12:6, Leviticus 23:5, Numbers 9:3, 2, Chronicles 35:1, Ezekiel 45:21)….The “New Testament” records that at least one day or two days pass from the "Last Supper" until the crucifixion of Jesus. It is impossible to have Jesus celebrating the Seder i.e., "Last Supper" at the only appointed time of 14 Nisan at the going down of the sun and being the "Passover Lamb" that is sacrificed only on 14th Nisan at the going down of the sun. One cannot do both. To celebrate the Passover on a day earlier than 14th Nisan is a violation of Torah. To sacrifice the Passover a day earlier/later is a violation of Torah. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

See above as to the adherence to the ritual of the sacrifice. He was being sacrifice not performing the ritual.

• Only the Israelites are to kill the Passover lamb (Exodus 12:6)….According to the “New Testament” uncircumcised pagan Romans killed Jesus. Jesus was not offered as a sacrifice by the Israelites but was killed by pagans. Jesus did not fulfill Torah as an acceptable sacrifice according to Torah.

Jesus however was offered up to the Roman's to be sacrificed by members of the sanhedrin.

• Not to offer up a blemished beast that comes from non-Israelites (Leviticus 22:25)….According to the “New Testament” The uncircumcised pagan Romans blemished Jesus. Jesus was not a lawful sacrifice according to Torah.

See above

• To cook the lamb with fire, roasted whole (Exodus 12:8 – 9, Deuteronomy 16:7)….According to the “New Testament” Jesus was not roasted whole. Jesus did not fulfill the requirements for Passover according to Torah.

Once again as he was dead he was not in a place to correct the procedure...at least not for another three days.

You are quick to throw specific quotes to the old testament mind doing it for the new too? Makes it easier to discuss. "new testament" is fairly broad.

 

[astarath]

my computer froze I am so sorry

 

[Scuba Pete]

Wow...

Somehow, it appears that we have some major darts being thrown here. This is amazing... legalism at it's most awe inspiring worst. Some think they can take a matter of faith and reduce it to human logic. Pathetic and humorous at the same time. I am not sure whether to laugh or cry: To appluad their escape to fantasy or to boo the same.

Now really, I am used to legalists among believers. They strain the gnat and swallow the camel with amazing alacrity. But here are non-believers who are attempting a major coup by using the same flawed legalism to twist scripture into saying something it could not. This is more fanciful than the religious right using the scriptures to justify their homophobia and war mongering. Y'all deserve a Oscar for this. Take a bow.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Can we get a grip on the broken record thing?

 

[wizanda]

Who said this thread was about “Eucharist?”
There were two cups, one is in the right hand of God and the other is the “Eucharist”; which this thread should clearly show why not.

Yet this is also like the parable of Lazarus Luke 16
If they won’t hear the prophets, why will they hear us?

Niether did the church who wrote, preserved, and proclaimed the message of Christ since the beginning.

Yeh Established by who:
1) Paul? wasn't he a Pharisee?
2) John? There are too many points, known in this book that could only have been known by a Pharisee?
3) Rock of stumbling? Or peter (stone) for short .i.e. Simon?

Mat 5:20
(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jer 25:15-16
(15) For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
(16) And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword (mattock – Cherub – Christ that I will send among them.

Psa 116:13-15
(13) I will take the cup of salvation (Yeshua), and call upon the name of the LORD(God).
(14) I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.
(15) Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Mar 9:41
(41) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.