Drugs and Religious/Spiritual Practices

[Japaholic]

Saddus use cannabis as do rastafarians.

There are legends in Sufi Islam about Haydar discovering the pleasures of hashish.

The use of Bhang among Sikhs is well documented.

I also class alcohol as a drug and note its ceremonial use in parts of the Christian church.

Shamen or medicine men from peoples all over the world, from Siberia to South America have used mushrooms or cacti in spiritual practice.

In fact, its pretty much given that in any major culture going back in time the use of substances of various types formed part of spiritual/religious life.

Aside from legal issues or the countries we live what are your views on substance use in our journey to enlightenment or in our relationship with God?

 

[methylatedghosts]

I believe that drugs may thrust someone into a world unknown, and may give a person a jolt towards enlightenment.

However, the difficulty is, "Was that experience the drug, or was that God"
Another problem is being unable to have that same experience without the drug, whether it was God or not. The safest, and most genuine "god-experience" would be self-induced, while sober. That is to say - without the use of drugs.

 

[LuisDantas]

I deeply dislike it. In fact, I don't think I ever saw the point of it. Inducing a chemical imbalance in oneself seems like a dangerous thing to do, even if it actually works.

One of the things that I like in Buddhism is that the Five Precepts include the goal of not intoxicating oneself. A clear mind is something that I find quite basic for both everyday living and religious practice.

But leaving that aside for a moment, I would assume that some entheogens do indeed create altered mental states that somehow motivate or inspire some people. I would much rather cultivate such perceptions out of my own volition, however. Far less dangerous.

 

[Reiðrœska]

Some drugs can be used to induce a state of gnosis which is helpful when performing magic. Some, like cocaine, make it harder to achieve gnosis so I haven't a clue why so many magicians seem to be crackheads.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I deeply dislike it. In fact, I don't think I ever saw the point of it. Inducing a chemical imbalance in oneself seems like a dangerous thing to do, even if it actually works.

Interesting. I feel the opposite way. I have always been fascinated by why structures of chemicals do what they do to our minds and what kind of "revelation" or exposure to some element of reality they can bring about.

Lots of things are dangerous. Yea, that does include drugs, but doing it in moderation and knowing how much to dose is absolutely key...along with your mindset, setting and being around those who know what's up and how to handle a person flipping out on drugs--IF that happens.

Besides the very occasional bad trip or high that results most times from your mind's own repressed bad feelings...

the effects........well... :rainbow1: :bounce

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you believe that drugs reveal anything that can't be found without them, Stacey?

I often wonder - nah, that's not true, I outright doubt that such visions are worth the price. One should build its own emotional and cognitive structure before attempting to carry a heavy load into it, I think.

In fact, it is precisely because such visions don't happen spontaneously that I find then dangerous. Brains are delicate things.

But who knows? Each person is different in some degree from the next one. There is some slight evidence that I might be naturally prone to whatever mental state people use drugs for. Maybe I would want to experiment with them if I had a different neurological arrangement or something.

EDIT: Something else to consider - for much of my life I felt that I couldn't afford to "get high". Not entering into specifics, but let's just say that I am not generally fortunate enough to be among people that I would trust to deal with me if I didn't know exactly what I was saying and why. I have a hunch that this may be significant.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

The Baha'i Faith strongly prohibits recreational drug use, all civil laws must be obeyed, and drugs are never used in any religious activities.

(Caffeine is permitted, and tobacco is permitted but strongly condemned.)

Regards,

Bruce

 

[doppelganger]

Greetings!
all civil laws must be obeyed

So civil disobedience is verboten?

 

[Valjean]

When Dr Richard Alpert gave LSD to various Indian Sadhus some declared the experience inferior to meditation and others asked where they could get more of it.
Pankhe and Williams, in their Implications of LSD and Experimental Mysticism found intriguing paralells between traditional mysticism and certain psychedelic states.

The mechanism of mystical consciousness is not understood. The mechanisms by which it may be induced are not well understood.
Chemical induction cannot, currently, be dismissed as a mechanism.

trgr

 

[Storm]

Well, I'm biased about drugs, but I think use of entheogens is vastly inferior to "clean" methods of self-inducing trance states.

That said, I have never experimented with entheogens, and cannot evaluate the experiences they induce. So, maybe they can induce true mystical experiences.

 

[Caladan]

I think there is *too much* to say on the subject.
psychoactive/mind altering drugs can induce religious experiences in people. the challenge for the 'layman', the kind of person that likes to experience and explore and not deny themselves the sheer experience of living, is to find that path of incorporating this into one's personal life in a moderate way, and keep doing the same social duties reality expects him to do in order to still be in touch with it.

Also, its important to note, that our brains are beautifully constructed and delicate, as our whole physiology is, each person might have his own unique physiology and psychology to be effected differently.
Mind altering drugs are not a game, they have a profound and deep effect on the psych and its too bad that in modern times psychoactives have been popularized and taken carelessly , in ancient times mind altering plants have been used in initiation rites and rituals, that is to say with the very purpose of experiencing a higher state of consciousness and being, a connection with the gods or the Self, if you will.

 

[Father Heathen]

Some interesting characters relevant to the subject:

Terence McKenna
Terence McKenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Timothy Leary
Timothy Leary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also: Erowid

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I also class alcohol as a drug and note its ceremonial use in parts of the Christian church.

I think I disagree with this characterization. Wine is used by some Christian denominations, but not for its intoxicating effects.

 

[Japaholic]

I personally underwent a life changing experience. That took away my fear of death and showed me that there was something else after this life.

That was the begining of my spiritual journey, a journey that is yet incomplete.

I have also been to Church (cathedral actually) stoned on Cannabis and found that also a profoundly moving experience. The organ music and choir sent shivers up my spine.

I believe these substances are here for a reason. Had God not intended Cannabis to be used (for example) for getting stoned it wouldn't get you stoned. Yes I know it was used historically for making rope etc etc but why the psychoactive effect?

My own personal opinion is "as God intended" which is not sythesised by man.

FYI - I am T-Total and clean from narcotics for 8 years.

I think each has a purpose, being used habitually is not that purpose.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry, there is no more evidence that God intended Cannabis to be used entheogenically by humans than there is that God intended snake venom to be injected into those same humans.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sorry, there is no more evidence that God intended Cannabis to be used entheogenically by humans than there is that God intended snake venom to be injected into those same humans.

You cannot possibly be comparing THC to snake venom. What a ridicilous analogy.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Do you believe that drugs reveal anything that can't be found without them, Stacey?

I often wonder - nah, that's not true, I outright doubt that such visions are worth the price. One should build its own emotional and cognitive structure before attempting to carry a heavy load into it, I think.

In fact, it is precisely because such visions don't happen spontaneously that I find then dangerous. Brains are delicate things.

But who knows? Each person is different in some degree from the next one. There is some slight evidence that I might be naturally prone to whatever mental state people use drugs for. Maybe I would want to experiment with them if I had a different neurological arrangement or something.

EDIT: Something else to consider - for much of my life I felt that I couldn't afford to "get high". Not entering into specifics, but let's just say that I am not generally fortunate enough to be among people that I would trust to deal with me if I didn't know exactly what I was saying and why. I have a hunch that this may be significant.

Hmmm...I think I'm really the wrong person to debate drugs with. I <3 them so I'm a really biased opinion. They can do many things...good and bad, obviously.

Drugs can expand your mind in a way your own brain isn't capable of. As with every other thing on this earth, there are drawbacks...but I think the pros are more than worth the cons.



Anyhoo...they aren't for everyone. Not everyone has a mind/temperament/personality for them.

 

[LuisDantas]

You cannot possibly be comparing THC to snake venom. What a ridicilous analogy.

If we are talking about evidence that those substances were "meant" for something, then of course I can and do compare the two claims. Entheogens exist. Venom exists as well. Is there really anything to indicate that some of the two is more "meant" to be used by humans than the other?

 

[LuisDantas]

Anyhoo...they aren't for everyone. Not everyone has a mind/temperament/personality for them.

And it seems to me that far too many people discover after the fact that they aren't in that group. I don't think there is a good reason to find out, myself.

Out of curiosity, do you have any ideas on how to safely find out who shouldn't run the risk? Would this perhaps be basically a matter of simple personal choice?

 

[Wandered Off]

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