Drugs and Religious/Spiritual Practices

[Pagan Spiritualist]

Sorry, there is no more evidence that God intended Cannabis to be used entheogenically by humans than there is that God intended snake venom to be injected into those same humans.

The fact that it's here means it's for getting stoned. Same with computer duster. Same reasons why other people are here, to murder for your own sick pleasure, or to interact with in other ways.

God is neutral, everything is here for you to do whatever you want with, everything is here to do everything with. (but please don't harm anyone okay)

 

[stacey bo bacey]

And it seems to me that far too many people discover after the fact that they aren't in that group. I don't think there is a good reason to find out, myself.

Out of curiosity, do you have any ideas on how to safely find out who shouldn't run the risk? Would this perhaps be basically a matter of simple personal choice?

It can be a personal choice, yea.

Some people can't help that they are prone to flipping out. I find the ones who have trouble dealing with themselves under the influence of any drug are usually people who don't like NOT being in control. They can't surrender themselves for anywhere from 2-16 hours (depending on which drug you take the duration of the highs vary a lot). That feeling of not being in control manifests itself in acute & terrifying paranoia/anxiety...and it does suck...a lot, haha.

People who are curious about the benefits of drugs, though, will decide if the first try is worth it. And some people are naturally curious...nothing wrong with that. A lot of people don't like it, then again a lot of people do. Like I said, if you don't like not being in control, drugs aren't for you. Also, I guess if you're an anxious or paranoid person by nature, drugs wouldn't be a good suggestion.

 

[LuisDantas]

The fact that it's here means it's for getting stoned. Same with computer duster. Same reasons why other people are here, to murder for your own sick pleasure, or to interact with in other ways.

I don't see why the comparison holds, sorry. Maybe I would have to believe in a Creationist God of some sort to agree with you.

God is neutral, everything is here for you to do whatever you want with, everything is here to do everything with. (but please don't harm anyone okay)

Well, I guess that's why I am an atheist (and would probably be a Maltheist if I knew God to exist). It strikes me as pointless to purposely have such risky things thrown around with no proper safeties.

Apparently you (and many others) have lots more faith in the inherent harmony of existence than I do. Which is fine, but is just not my way.

 

[Troublemane]

I think that any chemical means of altering consciousness should be explored, but as in all things moderation is the key. Certainly, humanity is loathe to do anything in moderation, but with some things like cannabis and mushrooms or LSD even have no addicive properties, or very little. People who smoke alot of pot seem to do so more out of habit than because of addiction, but longterm use can have bad effects.

In my own experience I found I had very powerful spiritual insights when on Psilosybe and on Cannabis Indica, of different kinds. Using the former, I was able to stand within 6 inches of a giant hornet nest, surrounded by thousands of hornets without being stung (I perceived the hornets as friends); with the latter I had incredible insight regarding an ex-girlfriend of mine: I realized her behavior (acting like everything was fine with her) was just a front and she was genuinely depressed---turned out to be true!

But in my life I have only done LSD twice, mushrooms once, and pot a few times. Its not something to do on a regular basis IMHO. :angel2:

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I think that any chemical means of altering consciousness should be explored, but as in all things moderation is the key. Certainly, humanity is loathe to do anything in moderation, but with some things like cannabis and mushrooms or LSD even have no addicive properties, or very little. People who smoke alot of pot seem to do so more out of habit than because of addiction, but longterm use can have bad effects.

In my own experience I found I had very powerful spiritual insights when on Psilosybe and on Cannabis Indica, of different kinds. Using the former, I was able to stand within 6 inches of a giant hornet nest, surrounded by thousands of hornets without being stung (I perceived the hornets as friends); with the latter I had incredible insight regarding an ex-girlfriend of mine: I realized her behavior (acting like everything was fine with her) was just a front and she was genuinely depressed---turned out to be true!

But in my life I have only done LSD twice, mushrooms once, and pot a few times. Its not something to do on a regular basis IMHO. :angel2:

:yes:

Cept for weed. I think smoking weed should be a requirement for every single person on this planet. Maybe then everyone would chill the **** out.

 

[LuisDantas]

It can be a personal choice, yea.

Some people can't help that they are prone to flipping out. I find the ones who have trouble dealing with themselves under the influence of any drug are usually people who don't like NOT being in control.

Flipping out would be reacting badly to drugs, in some way that makes the user unlikely to want to repeat the experience?

They can't surrender themselves for anywhere from 2-16 hours (depending on which drug you take the duration of the highs vary a lot). That feeling of not being in control manifests itself in acute & terrifying paranoia/anxiety...and it does suck...a lot, haha.

It's probably silly of me to ask, but I can't help it: what would a person who is in control be like? I don't think I have met many people who have anything approaching true control of their lives. So I am basically clueless about what this "being in control" thing would be like.

Seriously. There are hints that I should be well aware of what it is, but I just am not.

People who are curious about the benefits of drugs, though, will decide if the first try is worth it. And some people are naturally curious...nothing wrong with that. A lot of people don't like it, then again a lot of people do. Like I said, if you don't like not being in control, drugs aren't for you.

Ah, you mean being as responsible for my own thoughts and actions as I can at every moment?

Guilty as charged, then. And proudly so.

I just don't see why anyone would want otherwise, really.

Also, I guess if you're an anxious or paranoid person by nature, drugs wouldn't be a good suggestion.

More by nurture, really

 

[Pagan Spiritualist]

I don't see why the comparison holds, sorry. Maybe I would have to believe in a Creationist God of some sort to agree with you.



Well, I guess that's why I am an atheist (and would probably be a Maltheist if I knew God to exist). It strikes me as pointless to purposely have such risky things thrown around with no proper safeties.

Apparently you (and many others) have lots more faith in the inherent harmony of existence than I do. Which is fine, but is just not my way.

My God is the universe, I just say god to make it easier to swallow.

I don't think the universe is harmonious. I think it's order that came out of chaos.

Haha, I wish I knew what that comparison holds, but I forgot.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Flipping out would be reacting badly to drugs, in some way that makes the user unlikely to want to repeat the experience?

Haha, you'd be surprised. Plus, not every high or trip is a bad experience. It could be the result of one bad mind set, one bad thought. Whether the experience will end up good or bad after you have a bad thought depends on the drug. With weed or E, you can be talked out of it...distracted easily. With stuff like LSD or shrooms...nope. You can either be distracted (hard to do with psychoactives like that) or you have to ride out the bad trip. Some people only do it again because they understand that doesn't always happen.

It's probably silly of me to ask, but I can't help it: what would a person who is in control be like? I don't think I have met many people who have anything approaching true control of their lives. So I am basically clueless about what this "being in control" thing would be like.

Seriously. There are hints that I should be well aware of what it is, but I just am not.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean being in control is a bad thing at all. It's a good thing. I don't think anyone is in true control of their lives either. But for those who have tried drugs and have a good relationship with them, if they have a night off or the next couple days off work and have no other plans to be responsible (like running errands or visiting grandma).....there is that available avenue of drug use. Recreational purposes or spiritual....or some intend to use recreationally then have a spiritual experience.

Ah, you mean being as responsible for my own thoughts and actions as I can at every moment?

Guilty as charged, then. And proudly so.

Being responsible is a very good thing. And that's good for you, seriously.

Others, though, who are in an environment where drug use is tolerated and taken care of can feel free to dance about and gibber nonsense if that's where something takes them....because they are in an environment where that is ok.

There are some things about drugs that just can't be explained. How it will transform your mind. Trivial things you take so seriously can be put in perspective and fall back into the trivial category. You become concerned with being "one" with everything and everyone instead of being concerned in the least bit about yourself. That's the most I can really describe.

I just don't see why anyone would want otherwise, really.

If that works for you, then that's perfectly fine!

Others have a different feeling about drugs, though. I think their feelings should be validated.

 

[LuisDantas]

Haha, you'd be surprised.

Probably, since I was asking in an entirely straight way. I am indeed not certain what "flipping out" means in this context.

Plus, not every high or trip is a bad experience. It could be the result of one bad mind set, one bad thought. Whether the experience will end up good or bad after you have a bad thought depends on the drug. With weed or E, you can be talked out of it...distracted easily. With stuff like LSD or shrooms...nope. You can either be distracted (hard to do with psychoactives like that) or you have to ride out the bad trip. Some people only do it again because they understand that doesn't always happen.

Sorry. I just don't understand most of that. And yet somehow I am not really curious either. In my mind a trip is basicaly a bad experience by definition. I have never been high in my life, not even on alcohol. And that's how I like it.

It is hard enough to learn about my own desires and thoughts without external interference messing the scene. That's how I feel.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean being in control is a bad thing at all. It's a good thing. I don't think anyone is in true control of their lives either. But for those who have tried drugs and have a good relationship with them, if they have a night off or the next couple days off work and have no other plans to be responsible (like running errands or visiting grandma).....there is that available avenue of drug use. Recreational purposes or spiritual....or some intend to use recreationally then have a spiritual experience.

If you say so. But it just sounds so completely alien to me. Not even truly unappealing, more like indecipherable really.

Being responsible is a very good thing. And that's good for you, seriously.

Others, though, who are in an environment where drug use is tolerated and taken care of can feel free to dance about and gibber nonsense if that's where something takes them....because they are in an environment where that is ok.

So it is somehow significantly different from normal circunstances? I feel oddly left out at times with this kind of talk, as if I was not meant to know what it is about. Sometimes it looks like most people have a sort of urge for greater freedom that I simply lack.

I'm not being very clear. Sorry. I literally don't know what I am (trying to) talk about.

There are some things about drugs that just can't be explained. How it will transform your mind. Trivial things you take so seriously can be put in perspective and fall back into the trivial category. You become concerned with being "one" with everything and everyone instead of being concerned in the least bit about yourself. That's the most I can really describe.

Uh, sorry for sounding so odd and pretentious, but that looks like a fair description of how I usually am.

If that works for you, then that's perfectly fine!

Others have a different feeling about drugs, though. I think their feelings should be validated.

Well, that is the thing. It is because I don't get it that it doesn't work. I have no idea at all of what motivates someone - anyone - to experiment with drugs. And that troubles me greatly. I can't even validate, or even truly reject, such an utterly alien idea.

 

[Father Heathen]

If we are talking about evidence that those substances were "meant" for something, then of course I can and do compare the two claims. Entheogens exist. Venom exists as well. Is there really anything to indicate that some of the two is more "meant" to be used by humans than the other?

Humoring the notion that they were created and meant for something, their effects would suggest what for.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's quite a leap of faith to take, however.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Probably, since I was asking in an entirely straight way. I am indeed not certain what "flipping out" means in this context.



Sorry. I just don't understand most of that. And yet somehow I am not really curious either. In my mind a trip is basicaly a bad experience by definition. I have never been high in my life, not even on alcohol. And that's how I like it.

It is hard enough to learn about my own desires and thoughts without external interference messing the scene. That's how I feel.



If you say so. But it just sounds so completely alien to me. Not even truly unappealing, more like indecipherable really.



So it is somehow significantly different from normal circunstances? I feel oddly left out at times with this kind of talk, as if I was not meant to know what it is about. Sometimes it looks like most people have a sort of urge for greater freedom that I simply lack.

I'm not being very clear. Sorry. I literally don't know what I am (trying to) talk about.



Uh, sorry for sounding so odd and pretentious, but that looks like a fair description of how I usually am.



Well, that is the thing. It is because I don't get it that it doesn't work. I have no idea at all of what motivates someone - anyone - to experiment with drugs. And that troubles me greatly. I can't even validate, or even truly reject, such an utterly alien idea.

Ok....sorry, hehe.

That's the best I can describe. Just.......take what you understand about yourself: that you don't understand, can't fathom this kind of drug life. Then just flip it. Some people can't understand "plain" life. They don't necessarily NEED drugs, but they have discovered the significance and benefit of them.

Again, they are not for everyone. And that is totally ok! :bounce

 

[LuisDantas]

So frustrating. But what I can I do but agree?

 

[stacey bo bacey]

So frustrating. But what I can I do but agree?

You don't have to agree if you don't....

But at least know that people's opinion on this subject will vary quite differently from one person to the next.

 

[LuisDantas]

You don't have to agree if you don't....

I can't even begin to disagree unless and until I figure what you're talking about

But at least know that people's opinion on this subject will vary quite differently from one person to the next.

That's why it is so frustrating

Sorry, this is no fault of yours, of course. I just needed to vent, I guess.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I can't even begin to disagree unless and until I figure what you're talking about

It's ok. Is it that you don't understand what I am saying as in my English? Or as in the experience of drugs?

If it's the latter, then don't worry. You cannot ever understand unless you have partaken. But it is no loss or discredit to the value of life if you haven't taken drugs...they are just a different path or experience some choose.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's ok. Is it that you don't understand what I am saying as in my English? Or as in the experience of drugs?

English is probably not the barrier; quite a few brazilians attempted to tell me much the same things, in a language that is remarkably similar to yours.

But I can't for the life of me understand what they say. I feel silly, pathetic even, but I can't help it.

If it's the latter, then don't worry. You cannot ever understand unless you have partaken. But it is no loss or discredit to the value of life if you haven't taken drugs...they are just a different path or experience some choose.

Somehow that just doesn't satisfy me. Only my problem, however. Thanks for trying, anyway.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

No problem!

 

[Pagan Spiritualist]

I have no idea at all of what motivates someone - anyone - to experiment with drugs. And that troubles me greatly. I can't even validate, or even truly reject, such an utterly alien idea.

Wanting to feel joy is alien? Is it not something every animal is normally motivated by?

 

[LuisDantas]

Wanting to feel joy is alien? Is it not something every animal is normally motivated by?

What does that have to do with drug use?